Not Happy With Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag

[Andrew O'Neill]

Was really happy with the sample pack I received a few months ago, so I ordered 25 sheets of 22x30. I've gone through five full sheets worth and still have not made a good Kallitype print. They're spotty, uneven in tonality, just down right awful. I've brushed on and puddle-pushed, with Tween (uglier with Tween) and without. I then made a print on Arches Platine just to make sure it's not me or my chemicals and got a beautiful result.
My darkroom's RH is considerably lower this time of year and I thought maybe this paper doesn't perform well when it's dry. When I tested the sample pack a few months ago, the RH was about 80. Now it's 40. Never had humidity issues before with all the papers I've worked with over the years... So, I'll have to run the hot water to get the humidity up and see what happens.

 

[pdeeh]

I always find it frustrating when things go wrong with prints when other people using ostensibly the same paper & process are having success.
Mind you, it's even more frustrating when I make a good print one day and a foggy mess the next and I haven't changed a thing.

Still, might be worth getting in touch with Wolfgang Moersch, he seems to be able to make good prints on HPR with all sorts of processes (including Kallitype). I also saw Holden Richards showing some Kallitypes on HPR at Flickr.
So it obviously can be done.

But then again, there are so many variables that affect alternative processes. Humidity may be one in your case - it caused me some over the summer.

Good luck!

 

[ced]

Andrew, Maybe the paper needs to be treated in Sulfamic or needs to be sized?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

@pdeeh , I too am leaning towards humidity. I know this paper will work, as the prints I made from the sample pack were quite nice.
@ced, this paper was designed with alternative processes in mind, so acidifying or sizing should not be necessary.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Bob Carnie]

You are scaring me Andrew we just calibrated this paper for palladium, now I am about to order a large batch of this paper.

 

[jeffreyg]

I haven't tried that paper yet and I live in a high humidity locale. I still coat the papers I use for pt/pd including cotton vellum with a light brushing of distilled water that I let almost dry before coating. So far that has worked well.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[Bob Carnie]

Was really happy with the sample pack I received a few months ago, so I ordered 25 sheets of 22x30. I've gone through five full sheets worth and still have not made a good Kallitype print. They're spotty, uneven in tonality, just down right awful. I've brushed on and puddle-pushed, with Tween (uglier with Tween) and without. I then made a print on Arches Platine just to make sure it's not me or my chemicals and got a beautiful result.
My darkroom's RH is considerably lower this time of year and I thought maybe this paper doesn't perform well when it's dry. When I tested the sample pack a few months ago, the RH was about 80. Now it's 40. Never had humidity issues before with all the papers I've worked with over the years... So, I'll have to run the hot water to get the humidity up and see what happens.

Hi Andrew

I try to have my darkroom at 55-65% humidity, when lower I get problems... I bought a home hardware unit that does the trick, the wik or thing that soaks up the water
goes funky every 45 days so its a bit pricey, I will get a proper unit for my next dim room , as silver does not have the same issues for me.

I think 40 % is not bad , but at the low end for me.

try with more and let us know, did this paper originate from Amplis or did you get from another source??

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks for your input, Bob. I got it through Beau Photo in Vancouver. They didn't have it in 22x30 and told me that they would have to order. I'm not sure if they got it from Amplis, but probably. I'll probably just wait until winter is over, and my darkroom starts hovering around 60-70 RH again. I usually carbon print in the winter anyways, due to low RH.

 

[dpurdy]

I have worked with that paper with no problems. My basement darkroom gets high humidity until we run the gas furnace then it gets very dry. What I do to eliminate the humidity variable is to keep an electric pan of water at near boil temperature with the lid on. Then depending on the type of paper I steam at various points of the process. With the Hahnemuhle I avoid the fumed silica or oxalic acid treatment and coat the paper straight out of the package. I include a couple drops of tween in the formula then when the paper is coated I dry it bone dry with a hair dryer. Then when I have it nice and dry I steam the paper both sides until it becomes limp. Then I let it sit for 2 or 3 minutes for the fibers to even out from the steam. Then I print and process and always get good results.
Dennis

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I got my darkroom up to 80 RH via kettle. I let the room stabilise for about an hour, still sitting at 80. The resulting print was slightly...emphasis on slightly... better, but still nothing to sing about. The use of Tween does not help. I acidified yesterday with no improvement. Trying another one but this time I will let the sensitised paper air dry, instead of blow drying. If that doesn't work, I'll try steaming the dried sensitised paper as suggested by dpurdy. If I'm still unlucky, then I'll call it a day and just make carbon prints. They like dry air! I'll revisit kallitype in the summer.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

@dpurdy The steaming resulted in a much better print. Smoother highlights, like I was getting back in August, and no spotting. The only problem was very slight blotches, but I attribute that to my poor steaming technique. Thanks for your help.

After all that stress, I'll make some carbon transfer prints to relax! Cheers everyone!

 

[dpurdy]

Good. In my experience it needs a really good steaming and then a good period to rest or age or even out after the steaming then you get smooth tones. With Arches Platine you need to do a really good steaming before the coating. Don't do that with Hanemuhle. For me a couple of drops of tween for an 8x10 is helpful.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Good. In my experience it needs a really good steaming and then a good period to rest or age or even out after the steaming then you get smooth tones. With Arches Platine you need to do a really good steaming before the coating. Don't do that with Hanemuhle. For me a couple of drops of tween for an 8x10 is helpful.

That's interesting about Arches Platine. After all the crappy results I got with the Hanemuhle, I made one on Platine right out of the package. Beautiful result. And that was in the same dry environment as the Hanemuhle. I will steam it anyways and compare with the unsteamed print. Thanks Dennis.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Andrew- one observation, I found the HP to be almost twice as fast as AP , and Revere to be almost twice as slow

Revere - 160 units on plate burner
Arches Platine - 120 units on plate burner
Hann Platinum - 80 units on plate burner.

FYI

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes! 13 minutes for AP and 6 for HP for me on BB table. I've never tried Revere. Are you getting it from B&S?

 

[Bob Carnie]

Yes! 13 minutes for AP and 6 for HP for me on BB table. I've never tried Revere. Are you getting it from B&S?

No , I got a good deal on it so I am using it for duotones which it seems to be very adaptable for.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

After a little testing, steaming the paper after it has been sensitised and dried is much better than steaming the paper before sensitising. Much smoother tones are the result...but I still cannot get butter smooth tones like I did last summer. I'll save Hahnemühle for the summer months, when it more humid. Back to carbon printing!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Now that the RH is back up to about 70 in my darkroom, I am once again making very nice prints on Hahnemühle... but alas, it's getting too humid for carbon printing. Out comes the dehumidfier...

 

[Robert Poole]

Now that the RH is back up to about 70 in my darkroom, I am once again making very nice prints on Hahnemühle... but alas, it's getting too humid for carbon printing. Out comes the dehumidfier...

I'm coming to this thread very late but this is my contribution.
All this talk of darkroom humidity, which is not easy for most people to regulate and control, would be unnecessary if you used the Malde-Ware printing-out methods, which humidify the paper (easily done in a plastic tray) before making the exposure to UV. Indeed the humidity you CHOOSE can be used to fine-tune the colours of Pt/Pd and chrysotypes. All the details are on Mike Ware's web pages, all totally free.
Robert

 

[Bob Carnie]

I prefer to keep my printing rooms at good humidity at all times , not a hard thing to do..

 

[Robert Poole]

I prefer to keep my printing rooms at good humidity at all times , not a hard thing to do..

This thread started on Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag which I used early on in my Pt-Pd printing. But then I started seeing splodginess/blotches (whatever) in tones that should be even. Some were very ugly. MIke Ware has published an online dossier on this and I have stopped using HPR, even after sulfamic acid washing. As others reported switching to Arches Platine solved all my problems and that is now my go-to paper. No Tween, no sulfamic acid. I haven't used Revere Platinum - it's not available in the UK but Jacksons Art are considering stocking it I hear.

 

[hirudin]

I had a different experience with HPR versus Arches Platine: For 3 years I was using a Nuarc plateburner with HPR using NA2 method with PVA and tween; I got great DMax and tonality and was very happy. But then when I had to downsize and switched to a different light source (Arista) and recalibrated, my DMax went to hell and started getting image quality issues. No difference in my coating methods, no difference in my formulation. I tried testing several times, tried different coating methods, different formulations. No improvement: still got a low DMax and quality issues. Then I tried switching paper to COT-320 and then Arches Platine and it worked right out of the box. So if I get another plateburner, I guess I have some HPR to go with it.

 

[Dan Dozer]

I live in the desert southwest where it is normally very dry especially in summer. i found that for Platinum/Palladium printing, Hahnmuhle Platinum worked beautifully but only after I humidified the paper. Not anything scientific about the process. Bought a little room humidifier for less than $20, set it up in a little bathroom in the house and turned it on, spread out a couple of sheets of paper in the room, and closed the door. After 10 minutes or so, the paper is visibly softer than before and has absorbed some of the humidity. Coat and expose the paper right away, and never had any problems at all.

 

[Mike Ware]

Mike Ware has published an online dossier on this

The "dossier" that Robert Poole kindly refers to has just been uploaded to my website:
https://www.mikeware.co.uk/mikeware/Paper_Additives.html
I'd be interested to hear from anyone with knowledge of "retention aids" and their use in papermaking.
For siderotypes, I think they are disastrous.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

This recent batch I received last month seems to work okay, as long as I:

put a drop of a Tween in the sensitiser
keep my workspace's RH between 50 and 70
add a few ml's of vinegar to water clearing baths (my tap water is too alkaline)