Noblex 150 film scratches on Kodak TMax 400

[Citsmith]

I recently switched from Ilford films to the TMax 400 and have been getting fine scratches lengthwise on the exposures. The Noblex uses two rollers to stretch the film over the curved film plane. The film is actually forced up against the plastic film plane. I don’t see or feel any rough spots on the film plane. Is TMax 400 emulsion more soft for cratching than Ilford films?

 

[MattKing]

Is it clear that the scratches are on the emulsion side of the film?

 

[Citsmith]

I went back and checked and the scratches are on the emulsion side. It is in the same distance from the side in all cases. The film pressing on the film gate must be the problem but I don’t remember it with Ilford Delta films.

 

[daliborwalk]

I found the problem with horizontal lines caused by scratching the film is common for Noblex cameras (models 135 and 150). I met the issue with Ilford HP5, Delta 100 and Fomapan 100. I try to polish inner areas using polishing paste where the film is in contact but have no reasonable results - one scratches fixed but new ones have appeared. I am struggling with the issue more then one year with no success. I have 2 Noblex 135 cameras and both make scratches. Scratches are on the emulsion/matte side. My guess of the critical place - check attached picture.

I have applied nail polish to some area - will let you know the results.

 

[Citsmith]

I found the problem with horizontal lines caused by scratching the film is common for Noblex cameras (models 135 and 150). I met the issue with Ilford HP5, Delta 100 and Fomapan 100. I try to polish inner areas using polishing paste where the film is in contact but have no reasonable results - one scratches fixed but new ones have appeared. I am struggling with the issue more then one year with no success. I have 2 Noblex 135 cameras and both make scratches. Scratches are on the emulsion/matte side. My guess of the critical place - check attached picture.

I have applied nail polish to some area - will let you know the results.

Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your similar experience with this.

 

[daliborwalk]

I talk with more owners of Noblex - these scratches are often problem and no one has solved it yet what I know.

 

[Paul Ozzello]

I have them on my Noblex 150, but also on my 617 filmback so I’m not convinced it’s the cameras.

 

[daliborwalk]

I have them on my Noblex 150, but also on my 617 filmback so I’m not convinced it’s the cameras.

If scratches not because of the camera / filmback (any brand), then what is? I assume this is caused by the film shifting/(re)winding and rubbing against the internal surfaces of the camera.

I have never met the issue on my Horizon 202.

 

[daliborwalk]

I am struggling with the scratches (horizontal lines) on Noblex 135 more than 1 year. I have found the critical area - contact with film. Many times I applied polishing paste (for car polish), also used the finest sandpaper (grain 7000) with results - some scratches dissapeared and some new ones appeared - never ending story.
Last chance - I have decided to use nail polish on the critical area inside the camera (attached picture) - result --> NO SCRATCHES FOR NOW! It seems to be solved but I will be sure when more rolls developed.

 

[Ian C]

Considering

“The Noblex uses two rollers to stretch the film over the curved film plane.”

It’s likely that such film scratching is inherent in the design of this camera. It seems to be a variation of the phenomenon known as “cinch marks” most often encountered in the handling of motion picture film.

Andreas Fenninger wrote about cinch marks occurring in roll-film cameras and showed several photos in one of his books that illustrates the effect on film. But this doesn’t need to be film-to-film friction. Film can suffer such scratches when sufficiently tensioned and stretched over any surface that is rough or has particles on it. Even a surface that seems to be smooth can be seen to have “hills and valleys” when examined at sufficient magnification. Likewise, a “clean” surface might not be totally free of particles when viewed under magnification.

https://www.nfsa.gov.au/preservation/preservation-glossary/cinch-marks

https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/handling-of-processed-film (See Abrasion)

With regard to the comment that some films seem more likely to exhibit such scratching than others, it might be the case that some films have surfaces that are harder than others, and are less likely to suffer scratching, or at least have finer and less visible scratching.

 

[daliborwalk]

Considering

“The Noblex uses two rollers to stretch the film over the curved film plane.”

It’s likely that such film scratching is inherent in the design of this camera. It seems to be a variation of the phenomenon known as “cinch marks” most often encountered in the handling of motion picture film.

Andreas Fenninger wrote about cinch marks occurring in roll-film cameras and showed several photos in one of his books that illustrates the effect on film. But this doesn’t need to be film-to-film friction. Film can suffer such scratches when sufficiently tensioned and stretched over any surface that is rough or has particles on it. Even a surface that seems to be smooth can be seen to have “hills and valleys” when examined at sufficient magnification. Likewise, a “clean” surface might not be totally free of particles when viewed under magnification.

https://www.nfsa.gov.au/preservation/preservation-glossary/cinch-marks

https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/handling-of-processed-film (See Abrasion)

Yes, it is all right. But I have for the first time no marks/scratches on the film from my Noblex 135 S.