Nikon F6 updates

[Oren Grad]

Nikon .jp just added "Old Product" next to F6 designation: https://translate.google.com/transl...//www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/f6/ (I hope the google translate works for you, otherwise: https://www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/f6/)

Yes. And the Nikon Direct store shows 販売終了 and Yodobashi Camera shows 販売を終了しました. It's discontinued.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks Oren I wonder what if anything this says about the real state of film revival? However it would seem to indicate that the revival is not enough to persuade Nikon to continue with its only film camera

pentaxuser

 

[fdonadio]

I seriously doubt if it is that which is preventing his clarification. He may not know of course what the definitive Nikon position is on the F6 and there's no shame in that. He may be working to find out the accurate position. We just don't know

I wasn’t saying that this is the real reason. I was just pointing out that he could participate more often is he didn’t get, for example, accused of lying or stuff like that. From what I can guess about him, he only open his mouth when he has solid information. So, I guess we will have to wait until he does.

 

[ic-racer]

I wish they did like JBL with their discontinued 590 speakers. Whenever they discontinue them there is a flurry of interest in acquiring them and they make more. Been going on for a few year now.

 

[pentaxuser]

I wish they did like JBL with their discontinued 590 speakers. Whenever they discontinue them there is a flurry of interest in acquiring them and they make more. Been going on for a few year now.

It what they call the "closing down notice" tactic We had a sports shop in my town do that for about 2 years. It worked brilliantly

pentaxuser

 

[Chan Tran]

It what they call the "closing down notice" tactic We had a sports shop in my town do that for about 2 years. It worked brilliantly

pentaxuser

I believe in Illinois there is a law prohibit stores from display closing down sign to stay in business for more than 6 months.

 

[BobD]

Yes. And the Nikon Direct store shows 販売終了 and Yodobashi Camera shows 販売を終了しました. It's discontinued.

According to Google Translate:
販売終了 means "End of sale"
販売を終了しました. means "Sold out"

The F6 is still listed on the Nikon USA web site as a current product (though noted as "out of stock") and Nikon hasn't announced that it is discontinued.

I'm not trying to deny anything. Maybe the axe is about to fall. But, the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

 

[ic-racer]

Concern I have is will they now service cameras that were not purchased new in USA if they are not going to sell new cameras in the USA.

 

[Arthurwg]

"You don't know what you've got till it's gone."

 

[pentaxuser]

"You don't know what you've got till it's gone."

Yes especially when you pave paradise and put up a parking lot. Sorry couldn't resist

pentaxuser

 

[Team ADOX]

From what I can guess about him, he only open his mouth when he has solid information. So, I guess we will have to wait until he does.

Exactly. He has an excellent reputation in the industry as a very reliable source. And furthermore not only for his technology and market analysis, but also for his very detailed scientific tests of his independent photography test lab.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

Thanks Oren I wonder what if anything this says about the real state of film revival?

It says nothing at this phase. The real state of the film revival is determined by the sales of film, and not by the sales of just one 'niche in the niche' camera product.
The film sales are increasing. And fortunately they have even continued their increase during this pandemic (at least so far).
And concerning camera sales: Even if Nikon has to discontinue the F6, Leica for example is reporting increasing sales of their classic film M Leica cameras for years now. Demand is surpassing their current production capacity. And the demand for used film cameras is strongly increasing in general, which is the main reason for the increasing prices on the used market.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[Helge]

I wouldn’t be hugely surprised if Nikon was getting ready to release an F7 or an FA-2.
A camera able to take newly released glass and scaled for users, and the market, of today.

 

[BobD]

The F6N?

 

[Helge]

The F6N?

I’d think they’d want a completely overhauled design.
The F6 while very good, is still desperately stuck in the blobbygeddon and unmotivated curves and bean shapes design of the 90s and 00s, where everything learned about good design in the twentieth century was chucked.

We are hardly out of that time yet, but even then, the F6 seemed behind the times still, and was perhaps also getting hard to sell, for that reason alone.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

It says nothing at this phase. The real state of the film revival is determined by the sales of film, and not by the sales of just one 'niche in the niche' camera product.
The film sales are increasing. And fortunately they have even continued their increase during this pandemic (at least so far).
And concerning camera sales: Even if Nikon has to discontinue the F6, Leica for example is reporting increasing sales of their classic film M Leica cameras for years now. Demand is surpassing their current production capacity. And the demand for used film cameras is strongly increasing in general, which is the main reason for the increasing prices on the used market.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

So basically everyone is getting richer by the selling of used and new cameras but not Nikon. At Nikon they must have been very stupid!

 

[NB23]

Guys, we must understand what “film revival” actually means.

It means it’s a niche. A niche. Nothing professional, but craft-level.

We will never go back to shooting assignments with films. Developing and print overnight for deadlines. No magazines (do they still exist?) will ever require film images.

NO MEDIA ON EARTH will go back to REQUIRING film images. Manually working like an athletic dog, for hours, just to churn out one single image that could be done in Photoshop within 12 seconds? To satisfy a market that offers an attention span of 0.012 seconds to any image, even a MASTERPIECE? LoL!

It’s a craft. If watercolors still exist, film will exist. And both have an equal market.

A new film camera? Sure, in about 50 years when the used market will dry up and ressemble a landfill, a new film camera will be manufactured in order to match demand. This is no rocket science, really.

Film photography is a craft, and this is its revival: the arts and crafts market.

 

[miha]

Guys, we must understand what “film revival” actually means.

It means it’s a niche. A niche. Nothing professional, but craft-level.

Yes. Let's enjoy it while it lasts, because it may never happen again.

 

[Helge]

Guys, we must understand what “film revival” actually means.

It means it’s a niche. A niche. Nothing professional, but craft-level.

We will never go back to shooting assignments with films. Developing and print overnight for deadlines. No magazines (do they still exist?) will ever require film images.

NO MEDIA ON EARTH will go back to REQUIRING film images. Manually working like an athletic dog, for hours, just to churn out one single image that could be done in Photoshop within 12 seconds? To satisfy a market that offers an attention span of 0.012 seconds to any image, even a MASTERPIECE? LoL!

It’s a craft. If watercolors still exist, film will exist. And both have an equal market.

A new film camera? Sure, in about 50 years when the used market will dry up and ressemble a landfill, a new film camera will be manufactured in order to match demand. This is no rocket science, really.

Film photography is a craft, and this is its revival: the arts and crafts market.

There are still professionals shooting film and an increasing and surprisingly large number of them.
The global market is for large part composed of niches. The long tail and all that.
Catering to what's uber popular and mainstream was always risky and a fickle hot market with people tripping over themselves to undercut and stab each other.
Serious photography as such is a niche market. LPs is a niche. Quality comics is a niche. Everything that is good and interesting is a niche. People in general have horrible taste and are proud of it.
The trick is not being one of the many, both as a creative person and as a supplier.

 

[Team ADOX]

So basically everyone is getting richer by the selling of used and new cameras but not Nikon. At Nikon they must have been very stupid!

No, not at all.
There are many different possible reasons why Nikon might have been forced to stop F6 production. For example Leica had to discontinue - despite increasing demand - their film model M7. Because some essential parts from a supplier were not available anymore (and a redsign was too expensive). A similar reason could be the case at Nikon.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[Helge]

Yes. Let's enjoy it while it lasts, because it may never happen again.

That kind of fatalistic attitude and tone will only be self amplifying and self-fulfilling.
I'm not the one to compare the Vinyl revival with film normally, but it's been going for fifteen years plus and shows no signs of slowing down.

We need to actively try to remove the sense in some people, that film is this kind of kooky, fickle whimsical fad, "that is very charming and all but...".
And get it into everybody's heads that film is technically and very solidly, in a fundamental way, just a better and more aestetically pleasing method and technology for recording images, that can not in any way or shape be "emulated". In the same way you can not emulate a Ferrari with a pickup truck.

That's why we desperately need better affordable scanners, keep wet printing alive in labs and make it prosper, and make viewing slide easier.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

What Adox is doing in being able to manufacture on a small scale must surely indicate a strong future for photographic film, paper, chemistry, and related darkroom products. It is important to have competition outside of Kodak and ILFORD...

 

[Team ADOX]

Guys, we must understand what “film revival” actually means.
It means it’s a niche. A niche. Nothing professional, but craft-level.

It is indeed a niche compared to digital imaging. But it is a growing niche. And in absolute terms the whole silver-halid products market globally has a size of more than a billion dollars. So it is not a small niche.
And that there is "nothing professional" is fortunately completely wrong. There is a five-digit number of professional photographers worldwide using film. This number is also slightly increasing again.

We will never go back to shooting assignments with films. .....No magazines (do they still exist?) will ever require film images.

Both is fortunately wrong. We know of assigments shot on film, and lately even big fashion magazines (like Vogue) have published film images again. Because the film look was wanted.

It’s a craft. If watercolors still exist, film will exist. And both have an equal market.

The market for film photography is much much bigger than the market for watercolor painting. Please don't forget that the market for instant film photography alone is meanwhile a huge mass market again, even surpassing the market for digital ILC cameras. E.g. you can get instax film in the big supermarkets, or here in Germany in the drugstore chain shops. So available in about 4,000 walk-in stores in one country alone (together with 35mm standard film, by the way, and processing for C41, E6 and BW). You won't find equipment for watercolor painting in these shops.

A new film camera? Sure, in about 50 years when the used market will dry up and ressemble a landfill, a new film camera will be manufactured in order to match demand. This is no rocket science, really.

About 5 years is much more likely, if we consider 35mm and 120 film. In pinhole and LF we already have got lots of new camera models during the last years, even total new manufacturers for them have come to market.
And lots of new instant film cameras.
It even could be the case that 2020 will be the first year since 2003 in which in total more film cameras will be sold again than digital cameras. The current published data for digital cameras for 2020 indicates that this year the digital camera production will likely be in the 7.5 to 8.5 million units area (a historical low). Fujifilm alone has sold 10 million instax film cameras in their 2019 fiscal year.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[miha]

That kind of fatalistic attitude and tone will only be self amplifying and self-fulfilling.
I'm not the one to compare the Vinyl revival with film normally, but it's been going for fifteen years plus and shows no signs of slowing down.

We need to actively try to remove the sense in some people, that film is this kind of kooky, fickle whimsical fad, "that is very charming and all but...".
And get it into everybody's heads that film is technically and very solidly, in a fundamental way, just a better and more aestetically pleasing method and technology for recording images, that can not in any way or shape be "emulated". In the same way you can not emulate a Ferrari with a pickup truck.

That's why we desperately need better affordable scanners, keep wet printing alive in labs and make it prosper, and make viewing slide easier.

More power to you! In no way is my attitude towards film fatalistic, I'd say it's optimistic. FYI, I purchased a brand new 4x5 camera 2013. I also have two enlargers in my darkroom that keep me busy on many evenings, so I have enough reasons for the film to remain with us.

 

[NB23]

My point was that if watercolors exist, film will exist.

about vogue: a vogue assignment requires 10-50 rolls film. At least that was the count of films needed per assignment when I used to work for mags. How long can Adox survive from a magazine buying 10-50 rolls of film, monthly? Not long.

About the “film look”, any digital file with added grain will have the film look when printed on extra cheap magazine paper. I am not a proponent of digital but really, look at Salgado’s digital images and tell me they are not film. You will hve a hard time convincing anyone.

About the 5 digit number photographers in the pro business: I’m probably counted in there. My film usage is 100-200 a year. Hardly the 5000 a year before digital. And it will never be 5000 rolls per year, because of digital.

instax is another matter.

All in all, adox is surviving because of the craft and arts market, not because of the pro market.

edit: actually, I don’t know what and how adox survives and I wish you guys all he best.

It is indeed a niche compared to digital imaging. But it is a growing niche. And in absolute terms the whole silver-halid products market globally has a size of more than a billion dollars. So it is not a small niche.
And that there is "nothing professional" is fortunately completely wrong. There is a five-digit number of professional photographers worldwide using film. This number is also slightly increasing again.



Both is fortunately wrong. We know of assigments shot on film, and lately even big fashion magazines (like Vogue) have published film images again. Because the film look was wanted.



The market for film photography is much much bigger than the market for watercolor painting. Please don't forget that the market for instant film photography alone is meanwhile a huge mass market again, even surpassing the market for digital ILC cameras. E.g. you can get instax film in the big supermarkets, or here in Germany in the drugstore chain shops. So available in about 4,000 walk-in stores in one country alone (together with 35mm standard film, by the way, and processing for C41, E6 and BW). You won't find equipment for watercolor painting in these shops.



About 5 years is much more likely, if we consider 35mm and 120 film. In pinhole and LF we already have got lots of new camera models during the last years, even total new manufacturers for them have come to market.
And lots of new instant film cameras.
It even could be the case that 2020 will be the first year since 2003 in which in total more film cameras will be sold again than digital cameras. The current published data for digital cameras for 2020 indicates that this year the digital camera production will likely be in the 7.5 to 8.5 million units area (a historical low). Fujifilm alone has sold 10 million instax film cameras in their 2019 fiscal year.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.