Nikon F6 updates

[miha]

It even could be the case that 2020 will be the first year since 2003 in which in total more film cameras will be sold again than digital cameras. The current published data for digital cameras for 2020 indicates that this year the digital camera production will likely be in the 7.5 to 8.5 million units area (a historical low). Fujifilm alone has sold 10 million instax film cameras in their 2019 fiscal year.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

This is excluding 1,52 billion smartphones sold in 2019. We all very well know they are replacing compact digital cameras that once sold in millions and are about to extinct, hence the drop in "digital camera production".

 

[Team ADOX]

About the 5 digit number photographers in the pro business: I’m probably counted in there. My film usage is 100-200 a year. Hardly the 5000 a year before digital. And it will never be 5000 rolls per year, because of digital.

Our point was that the demand from professionals today is responsible for several million rolls p.a. globally. It is important for the manufacturers, especially for certain film types. Or in other words: It helps and is a very welcome additional demand .

All in all, adox is surviving because of the craft and arts market, not because of the pro market.

Nothing has changed fundamentally compared to the film era in this respect: The vast majority of film demand at the pre-digital era came from the snapshooter, hobbyist / enthusiast users. Not from professionals.
And it's the same today: Hobby / enthusiasts are responsible for the major part of the demand.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

This is excluding 1,52 billion smartphones sold in 2019. We all very well know they are replacing compact digital cameras that once sold in millions and are about to extinct, hence the drop in "digital camera production".

The smartphones are responsible for the almost complete collapse of the digital compact camera market. But that was not the point.
The market for digital ILCs has lost about 75% of its volume since its peak in 2012. And considering the global economic growth in the last 20 years, and setting it in relation to the former market size in 2000 (film ILCs), we get the result that in relative terms the digital ILC market today is meanwhile even smaller than the film ILC market in 2000.
There is a reason why lots of big companies have already left the digital camera market (like Kodak, Epson, Casio, Samsung, Olympus has started this fading-out process recently, and they won't probably be the last).

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[miha]

The smartphones are responsible for the almost complete collapse of the digital compact camera market. But that was not the point.
The market for digital ILCs has lost about 75% of its volume since its peak in 2012. And considering the global economic growth in the last 20 years, and setting it in relation to the former market size in 2000 (film ILCs), we get the result that in relative terms the digital ILC market today is meanwhile even smaller than the film ILC market in 2000.
There is a reason why lots of big companies have already left the digital camera market (like Kodak, Epson, Casio, Samsung, Olympus has started this fading-out process recently, and they won't probably be the last).

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

I don't quite understand this post. What is the point then? I guess you are not assuming that digital ILC dropped because of film ILC, are you? People are fine with the capture their smartphones provide, no need for a more fancy "family" camera any more. You said there is a reason why lots of big companies left the market already. So what is the reason if not smartphones? Lack of interest in photography?

 

[Huss]

.. A new FM3A is still a desirable object, and the technology is still relevant. No fading LCD displays, sluggish autofocus or banks of AA batteries for power....

My F75, F80 and F6 only take 2 CR2 batteries. Maybe one of them uses CR123, I forget which.
None have fading LCD displays. All focus a million times faster (yes I measured this) than an FM3A or any other manual focus camera ever made.

I suppose the very first af slrs had sluggish focus. But it is easy to avoid those.

But I do agree with the premise that it would be really nice for 'someone' (doesn't have to be Nikon) to introduce a quality 35mm slr. Nikon's Cosina FM10 was not that, and at the end of it's run cost over $400! So if that creaky plastic box was $400, how much would a nice camera be? And with sooooo many amazing cameras on the used market (I have no idea who is claiming they are running out, every place I look begs to differ) it's a tough sell.
Leica is doing well, I suppose, selling film cameras because they are in a market of one. No-one else occupies their space and frankly people who buy new Leicas never would cross shop with anything else. Because nothing else is like a Leica.
Cosina found this out when they pulled the plug on the ZM Ikon. It may have been a great camera, but instantly failed the 'gotta have this' feeling that Leica inspires when you just pick up the camera. The tech specs don't matter in the luxury goods market if the product feels chintzy, and next to a Leica the Ikon (and Bessas) definitely do.

The Nikon rangefinders are much much closer to the feel (and look) of Leica Ms. My S2 is a joy to hold and almost as nice to use as an M, as are the S3 and SP. If Nikon introduced a modern S2 with a meter built in, things would be very different.
Why introduce another remake of the original ones? Those are still available.

The craziest idea would be to introduce a Nikon RF in the Leica M mount! And offer an Amedeo style adapter so the camera can still use Nikon S mount RF lenses. That would open the new Nikon to the huge world of M mount lenses.

Of course none of this would happen.

 

[George Mann]

The FE/FM10 are sufficient cameras for most users, and I for one prefer AA's over more expensive ones that are harder to come by.

 

[Huss]

The FE/FM10 are sufficient cameras for most users, and I for one prefer AA's over more expensive ones that are harder to come by.

FE is nothing like the FM10. One is a beautiful, well made, desirable piece of kit that is a joy to use. The other is an FM10.
Neither of which take AA batteries.

 

[George Mann]

FE is nothing like the FM10. One is a beautiful, well made, desirable piece of kit that is a joy to use. The other is an FM10.
Neither of which take AA batteries.

FE1O? And the battery thing was a reply to those who indicated that they prefer the CR types.

 

[Huss]

FE1O? And the battery thing was a reply to those who indicated that they prefer the CR types.

Ahhhh, I stand corrected! No idea there was an FE10. And now I can see why! Such a shame when Nikon made such cool little cameras like the FG, and ended up with the Cosinas.
Kinda explains a lot.

 

[blockend]

My F75, F80 and F6 only take 2 CR2 batteries. Maybe one of them uses CR123, I forget which.
None have fading LCD displays. All focus a million times faster (yes I measured this) than an FM3A or any other manual focus camera ever made.

The comparison was with professional AF Nikon and Canon cameras, all of which required multiple AA batteries for film advance.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The comparison was with professional AF Nikon and Canon cameras, all of which required multiple AA batteries for film advance.

I use both a FM2N and the F100 which are obviously rather different but have there own merits to my way of thinking. The FM2N I originally bought as wanting something much more compact and less reliant on battery operation, it came in handy for shooting my last stocks of Kodachrome while hiking in the mountains back in 2010. See: https://tomkershaw.com/gallery/kodachrome/

 

[Huss]

The comparison was with professional AF Nikon and Canon cameras, all of which required multiple AA batteries for film advance.

Nikon F6 requires two CR123 cells.

 

[Huss]

I use both a FM2N and the F100 which are obviously rather different but have there own merits to my way of thinking. The FM2N I originally bought as wanting something much more compact and less reliant on battery operation, it came in handy for shooting my last stocks of Kodachrome while hiking in the mountains back in 2010. See: https://tomkershaw.com/gallery/kodachrome/

Very nice pics!

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Very nice pics!

Thanks.

 

[cmacd123]

about vogue: a vogue assignment requires 10-50 rolls film. At least that was the count of films needed per assignment when I used to work for mags. How long can Adox survive from a magazine buying 10-50 rolls of film, monthly? Not long.

All in all, adox is surviving because of the craft and arts market, not because of the pro market.

edit: actually, I don’t know what and how adox survives and I wish you guys all he best.

I can think of two things, first is that in order to know the craft well enough to shoot those 50rolls of film with a high price Vogue Model, the photographer has probably shot hundreds of rolls of film a month for a long time to be able to reliably get the look that they want, remember that their is no cheating by looking at an LCD. when that film comes back, the model is already in the next city, the clothes have gone back, and their are no Muligans or Gimees.

and figure that their are a LOT of folks who would like the privileged of being asked to work at that level. so Just that niche is good for a good market for film.

Second, their is a definite film look that is not faked on a digital that is in demand. Here in Canada, the Globe and Mail often with make it a point to run a totally legitimate film image, complete with Black borders and Kodak or Ilford edge print, when they are doing a feature of an executive in business, or an essay about issues. These are generally shot by a gentleman by the Name of Fred Lum, (who is on this board but I can't remember his user name) Again, this is someone who can nail a shot, and uses anything from a folding Brownie, to a haselblad or a 5X7 camera. When flipping through the paper, any of Fred's shots will instantly stand out on the page. (and yes, he also uses "Un Camera Numeric" if that is what makes the shot)

And lets face it, photographs for publication are only one small part of the market.

if Team Adox is seeing an increse in film sales, I would give the statement credit, as they are one of the major dealers in many brands of particularly B&W film. (besides the heroic project of bringing back many of the "special - out of the ordinary" products made famous by Agfa and Forte.

 

[NB23]

I’m not sure what we are arguing anymore. I just said that film is a niche product that’s kept alive by the arts and crafts folks. Amateurs, in other words. To which, Adox confirmed.

Regarding a Vogue shoot, there’s a lot of crap in there that’s accepted as art. And there is a lot of retouching via lightroom and photoshop going on as well.

Fred Lum (even One Hundred Fred Lum) aren’t enough to keep Adox in business. It takes more than his contribution to keep the film market Alive...

I can think of two things, first is that in order to know the craft well enough to shoot those 50rolls of film with a high price Vogue Model, the photographer has probably shot hundreds of rolls of film a month for a long time to be able to reliably get the look that they want, remember that their is no cheating by looking at an LCD. when that film comes back, the model is already in the next city, the clothes have gone back, and their are no Muligans or Gimees.

and figure that their are a LOT of folks who would like the privileged of being asked to work at that level. so Just that niche is good for a good market for film.

Second, their is a definite film look that is not faked on a digital that is in demand. Here in Canada, the Globe and Mail often with make it a point to run a totally legitimate film image, complete with Black borders and Kodak or Ilford edge print, when they are doing a feature of an executive in business, or an essay about issues. These are generally shot by a gentleman by the Name of Fred Lum, (who is on this board but I can't remember his user name) Again, this is someone who can nail a shot, and uses anything from a folding Brownie, to a haselblad or a 5X7 camera. When flipping through the paper, any of Fred's shots will instantly stand out on the page. (and yes, he also uses "Un Camera Numeric" if that is what makes the shot)

And lets face it, photographs for publication are only one small part of the market.

if Team Adox is seeing an increse in film sales, I would give the statement credit, as they are one of the major dealers in many brands of particularly B&W film. (besides the heroic project of bringing back many of the "special - out of the ordinary" products made famous by Agfa and Forte.

 

[blockend]

Nikon F6 requires two CR123 cells.

The F6 was conceptually different to the Nikon F, F2, F3, F4 and F5. By 2004 everyone* who used Nikons professionally had migrated to digital.
*Okay, not literally everyone. I'm assuming sales for the F6 were microscopic compared to previous pro Nikons, and mostly to enthusiasts, which is why there's never been an F7. If you wanted automation in the 60s to the 90s, AA cells were the go to battery - except for juice that was even heavier.

 

[Team ADOX]

I don't quite understand this post. What is the point then? I guess you are not assuming that digital ILC dropped because of film ILC, are you?

There are some very interesting and unexpected developments currently happening on the photography market. Just two of them as examples:
- Enthusiasts who have used digital ILCs intensively for about 10-15 years are coming back to film, and are investing in (used) film cameras instead of new digital ILCs. The strongly increasing prices for cameras like the Mamiya 6 / 7 / 7II, Pentax 67 / 67II, Fujifilm GF 670, Voigtländer Bessa III, Plaubel Makina, all the Hasselblads, Rollei TLRs, Mamiya RZ, Nikon F6, Nikon FM3A, Canon EOS 1V, Contax T2 / T3 etc. are one result of this development.
- Lots of young photographers are using only their smartphone for snapshots, leapfrog the digital ILC and use film exclusively for their more serious photography work.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

Nikon F6 requires two CR123 cells.

Or 8 AA cells in combination with the MB-40 vertical grip. You as the photographer have always the choice and can use the power source which suits the shooting situation best.
That is just one of the numerous advantages of the F6. We are using different camera types for our film test procedures, including the F6. A camera with unsurpassed precision.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[miha]

- Enthusiasts who have used digital ILCs intensively for about 10-15 years are coming back to film, and are investing in (used) film cameras instead of new digital ILCs.

A source for this claim would be invaluable.

 

[Team ADOX]

A source for this claim would be invaluable.

We have several sources for this data:
1) Our colleagues from Fotoimpex: a) They have direct customer contact via email. b) They have daily direct customer contact via the Fotoimpex brick-and-mortar store in Berlin. In total contacts to ten thousands of customers.
2) We are doing our own market research.
3) We are cooperating with specialised market research experts.
4) We are in contact with other manufacturers exchanging market observations and trends.
5) We are in contact with other distributors exchanging market observations and trends.
6) We are in contact with other labs exchanging market observations and trends.
7) We are in contact with workshop suppliers exchanging market observations and trends.

ADOX is investing a huge amount of money in new production capabilities and new products. Because we are absolutely convinced that there will be a sustainable and growing market for film photography. And we are convinced because we have the data.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[miha]

Thank you.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I waited until August 25 to place my order for an F6 with B&H, hoping to secure one of the four units they've received roughly twice each year for quite a few years. Given this thread, I was waiting for a B&H email message advising my order had been cancelled. I was uncharacteristically optimistic, thinking there was a possibility an F6 from the last batch Nikon ships to dealers with open orders that were placed before the discontinuation would become available.

Within the last hour B&H wrote saying my F6 was shipped! Now thse Sigma Art lenses (35mm and 50mm) from my D810 kit will be put to good use with ACROS II on an F6 too.

 

[Chan Tran]

The FE/FM10 are sufficient cameras for most users, and I for one prefer AA's over more expensive ones that are harder to come by.

You can get the F3 and run it on AA's. I think you can get the 8 AA's for about the same price as 2 MS76.

 

[George Mann]

You can get the F3 and run it on AA's. I think you can get the 8 AA's for about the same price as 2 MS76.

My F90x also runs on AA's.