Nikon F4

CMoore · Jul 10, 2016

Only because it was mentioned.....the F5 is way beyond my Need/Tolerance for technology. I also have no desire for a winder.
I think Digital SLR are AWESOME...!!
But i have no desire to own one, i will continue to admire what others do with them.

If i fall into a great F4 deal sometime i will grab it.
I would rather the FM2n, though they continue to fetch more money; but again if a 2n deal unfolds i will try to be ready.
Thanks For All The Advice.....it has been very Helpful/Enlightening.

Chan Tran · Jul 10, 2016

I bought the F5 new in 2002. I spent over 2 years checking out the matrix metering system. I sent it back to Nikon twice and ask them to recalibrate the meter. It's the same problem. The matrix metering system appear to kinda ETTR for transparency film. It kind of trying to keep the highlight to be no more than 2 stops over the mid scale. That's great for slides but for color negative I need to ensure that the shadows have sufficient exposure. The highlight can be 3 or 4 stops above mid scale is fine. So for a flat subject it's OK. For contrasty subject it underexpose. The degree of underexposure is dependent on the dynamic range of the subject.
The F5 matrix meter and my Df matrix meter read exactly the same most of the time. Rarely ever 1/3 stop different. However the same exposure setting which is good for digital capture is not good for color negative film.

Chan Tran · Jul 10, 2016

CMoore said:
Only because it was mentioned.....the F5 is way beyond my Need/Tolerance for technology. I also have no desire for a winder.
I think Digital SLR are AWESOME...!!
But i have no desire to own one, i will continue to admire what others do with them.

If i fall into a great F4 deal sometime i will grab it.
I would rather the FM2n, though they continue to fetch more money; but again if a 2n deal unfolds i will try to be ready.
Thanks For All The Advice.....it has been very Helpful/Enlightening.

Like I said although I like the F5 better than the F4 I like the F3 the most. I know that the F3 is now very cheap why don't you get one. In fact I would pick the F3 above all the other F series. The F5 and the F6 have good AF but I don't need AF. I don't need nor want P and S mode. The F5 and F6 has faster film advance. The F3 is just as fast as the F4 and I can remove the motor if I don't need it. Basic center weighted metering is fine for me. Like I said matrix would be good when use with A mode but it doesn't work for color negative. Spot metering is not good in A mode. I don't care much about the meter when use in M mode as I can use the hand held meter. TTL flash for the F3 some how works better for me although many people with the F3 never use TTL flash. The SB-16a and the Metz 60-CT4 with the F3 adaptor works very well.

frank · Jul 10, 2016

A very inexpensive SLR with great features is the Nikon 801s/8008s. This is the only camera of this type that I like. If you can deal with the digital display, this camera is one heck of a value. As well as average and spot meter, it has an in-focus indicator to let you know when your manual focus lens is in focus.

CMoore · Jul 10, 2016

Was just on the MIR Sight...they kind of lump those two together. Are the the same camera.?
I have never really seen one of these before.
Thank You

frank · Jul 10, 2016

Same camera, different markets.

Terry Breedlove · Jul 11, 2016

I have two broken F100 cameras the meter on them is outstanding and i will probably buy another because of that and they are smaller than the F5. I am very tempted to buy an F4 because i wanted one so bad when they came out but never forked over the cash. I have an F2 and an F3hp which i shoot very often so an F4 would be a cool add on but i am really thinking hard about an F6 as well.

CMoore · Jul 11, 2016

frank said:
A very inexpensive SLR with great features is the Nikon 801s/8008s. This is the only camera of this type that I like. If you can deal with the digital display, this camera is one heck of a value. As well as average and spot meter, it has an in-focus indicator to let you know when your manual focus lens is in focus.

You ever shoot color slides with it.?
Or would you mind taking a look at this.?
Thank You
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

markbarendt · Jul 11, 2016

Chan Tran said:
I like the F5 better than the F4 but the matrix metering system in the F5 is what I don't like. It doesn't work for color negative film.

Works for me.

ronnies · Jul 11, 2016

One thing that's potentially counter intuitive about the MB20 (small) and the MB21 (large) battery packs is that I found for small hands like mine the MB21 is easier to hold as it's girth is actually smaller than the MB20. Probably because it only need to hold three AA batteries in the grip part rather than four.

Ronnie

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 11, 2016

ronnies said:
One thing that's potentially counter intuitive about the MB20 (small) and the MB21 (large) battery packs is that I found for small hands like mine the MB21 is easier to hold as it's girth is actually smaller than the MB20. Probably because it only need to hold three AA batteries in the grip part rather than four.

Ronnie

Yeap, found the same here.
Mind you that there are 2 models of each of the MB-20 and MB-21: the first model doesn't have a lip under the shutter button.
The second model have it and that makes it easier to grasp the camera.
My MB-20 is the first type and the MB-21 I have is the second type.

Both my F4 were used by professionals and bear the scars, both are also very much in full working order.

frank · Jul 11, 2016

CMoore said:
You ever shoot color slides with it.?
Or would you mind taking a look at this.?
Thank You
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Yes, I've shot slide film in my 801s.

"I have a:
Nikon ...F2 and F3 and FM
Canon F1-N and A-1 and AT-1"

Any of these cameras would do the job of documenting the years of someone's life. Use what you are most comfortable with. Since the assignment spans years, you can switch among different camera. An 801s can be inexpensively added to your existing collection and use your existing Ais lenses.

destroya · Jul 11, 2016

if all you want is a nice camera to take slides with, I would get an N80. meters great with slide film and can be found in like new condition on craigslist for around $50 or less, even at KEH they are cheap. Cant use MF lenses, but not a big deal unless you have a lot of them.

The F4 is nice. I have one that i got from my dad. I would use it more but I prefer manual focus and a split prism finder to focus with. That piece costs almost as much as an F4 body, which is a shame.

so I would recommend an N80 or F100 if you want to shoot primarily slides. if you to shoot slides and neg film, and NO flash, then I would get an F3. an F100 would work with both types as well as great flash exposure, allow you to use G lenses and get great metering for both slides with matrix and neg film using center weighted.

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 11, 2016

destroya said:
if all you want is a nice camera to take slides with, I would get an N80.

Did you read what cameras Moore already has?
Yeap, all Manual Focus, so to suggest an AF SLR that can only work properly with AF lenses isn't exactly the best idea, is it?

CMoore
You already have 3 Nikons.
How many more do you need or want?
For ANY type of film what you have is already great.
Be happy with what you have.
Don't be like me that I already lost count of how many cameras I have bought and sold in the last few years alone.

skorpiius · Jul 11, 2016

macfred said:
Here's mine - F4 with MB20

Nikon F4 - MB-20 - Nikkor 35mm f/2 by Andreas, on Flickr

In Germany the F4 (without s) is easy to find and often in very good shape and not so expensive. I bought mine in September 2015 for 220 Euro (245 US- Dollar). It's a solid piece of gear.

--
No problems so far - no CLA needed !

Such a beautiful camera. I wish I could justify one, but I really don't need anything more than my F100.

Drew B. · Jul 11, 2016

Ah hell, I'll sell my F100 ( in great shape) to you if you're willing to part with $140...

Drew

frank · Jul 11, 2016

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-801

The only negative on the 801 and F4 is the relatively slow AF speed, but that is not an issue as I use them only with manual focus lenses, (for which they provide a focus confirmation light.)

CMoore · Jul 11, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
Did you read what cameras Moore already has?
Yeap, all Manual Focus, so to suggest an AF SLR that can only work properly with AF lenses isn't exactly the best idea, is it?

CMoore
You already have 3 Nikons.
How many more do you need or want?
For ANY type of film what you have is already great.
Be happy with what you have.
Don't be like me that I already lost count of how many cameras I have bought and sold in the last few years alone.

Well said, and you are right... what i have worked fine in the past, no reason it will not work for me now.
What i Should Do, is post a different question in a Different Forum that deals with my real issue.....lack of experience with color slides, and should i meter differently than i do with B&W negatives, which i tend to (not always, but often) overexpose a bit.
Thank You for slapping me in the face with reality.

frank · Jul 11, 2016

Yes, with B+W film I'll over expose, with slide film you have to meter more carefully. Automatic exposure bracketing is a feature on some cameras, otherwise do it manually. Go with the meter (aimed properly) then make another exposure underexposed by 1/2 to one stop.

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 11, 2016

CMoore said:
Thank You for slapping me in the face with reality.

Maybe the slap is also for myself.
After all I'm the guy that bought 3x black OM-1 in a row when I already had 3x chrome ones.

CMoore · Jul 11, 2016

frank -
10-4
Thanks for the info, and i will do some searching on exposure for color slides.
Thanks Again

Ricardo -
I will see you at next months meeting.....Cameraholics Anonymous.

Chan Tran · Jul 11, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
Maybe the slap is also for myself.
After all I'm the guy that bought 3x black OM-1 in a row when I already had 3x chrome ones.

Nah! You should have slapped yourself when you bought the second chrome one. If you bought the black one then you wouldn't need another OM-1.

John_Nikon_F · Jul 13, 2016

With respect to the FM2n being a lot more expensive than an F4, it depends on where you're looking. There's still a black FM2n for $129.50 at Kenmore Camera. Decent looking, everything works well.

With respect to the F4: The F4 is like the Minolta Maxxum cameras of the same era. They do frequently develop LCD bleed, but it seems to be more in relation to impact damage, at least with the lower LCD in the finder. The upper LCD, who knows. If you like manual controls, it's a nice camera. Centerweighted metering pattern is the same as the pattern used on most older Nikon bodies. AF speed isn't bad. The hunting around can get annoying after a while, though. With lithium batteries in the MB-20, AF is useable. With lithium batteries in a MB-21 or MB-23, it's quick. Just not that accurate if there's not enough contrast. Also, there's only one focus point. Meter-wise, I've had one F4 that started grossly underexposing photos (shot Ektar 100, set the ISO at 64 - photos looked like I'd shot them at ISO 400). Possible that something happened between the times I owned the body - was what I call a boomerang body - sold it to a friend, then bought it back when he decided he didn't want it anymore. Traded the camera toward an 85/1.8 K-type Nikkor. Probably a good move. Depending on the cosmetics of the body, I'd say the price is actually on par with FM2/FM2n bodies, provided, you're not buying the latter from a collector who's posting a feeler price on eBay. If you're looking for the 1/250 sync speed and don't care about the rest, just get the body I PM'ed you about. It's a decent FM2n.

With respect to the F5 metering, I've never experienced that issue. That said, for the most part, since I frequently use manual lenses, I'm in centerweighted metering mode. Just switched my F5 back to matrix, since I have a 28-70/3.5-4.5 mounted to it. First 10 frames were centerweighted. We'll see what the last 26 look like.

-J

Christiaan Phleger · Jul 13, 2016

I have to agree with Chan about the F5 Matrix metering seeming to be oriented towards holding the highlights in check which would be quite useful when shooting slides. I shot the F3/F4 and at the end F5 in wedding photography mostly black and white negative and color negative. The F4 Matrix Metering was/is truly exceptional for exposing for negative where shadow density can be more of a concern in relation to contrast levels. I did very much note the different response/choices with the F5 in contrasty light versus the F4. The F5 would indicate much less exposure than I would be comfortable with (coming from a photojournalist background my confidence in judging exposure was quite high lol) and I found I could get the negative density I wanted in contrasty light situations by dialing in +1.3 stops exposure compensation.
However Any slides done with the F5 seemed ideal; in contrasty backlit subject with the background in shadows the camera in A would nail the harder exposure of the partially lit subject while the F4 would expose much more into the shadows which is what I needed when printing black and white or color negatives.
l think it would be an easy test to do; perhaps as my summer project I may do one with the F4 and F5 and maybe borrow my buddy's F6.
My own belief is that yes they are different right out of the box; while the F5 targeted pro market was most definitely shooting mostly slides the F4 was more of a news camera during the black and white and color negative era before that market went to Digital.

CMoore · Jul 13, 2016

John_Nikon_F said:
With respect to the FM2n being a lot more expensive than an F4, it depends on where you're looking. There's still a black FM2n for $129.50 at Kenmore Camera. Decent looking, everything works well.

Hey John -
Yes, i think for me, the F4 has a lot of technology that is unimportant. Nice cameras, just a step in the wrong direction.....for me the FM2n is the way to go.
Thanks

Nikon F4

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