Nikon F4. fixable?

[Wolfram 1]

SO, this is my first post and to give a little context to my questions i will include a little introduction, i hope u guys can help me figure out why my Nikon F4 isnt working.

I'm new to shooting 35 mm film, in fact i don't really have any experience but i have been wanting to get away from digital photography, since in the 8 years i have had a smartphone i have made hundreds of pictures, but when do u really look at them? They get sorted into some folders on a pc or some hard-drive and then ultimately give no enjoyment or at least not one comparable with the feeling one gets when looking through an old photo album.

Anyway i started shooting 35mm this summer on my parents old Minolta X300, which felt great but before i could develop i borrowed it to my parents for a weekend and they lost it somewhere. That was a blow, but i asked around and have been able to get 2 newer, sadly not entirely mechanical but awesome cameras a Minolta dynax 7xi and the Nikon F4.

the 2 beasts, huge, heavy, but gorgeous and with a comfortable grip

The lithium battery for the Minolta dynax 7xi will arive tomorrow and i cant wait to try it out even though i have mixed feelings about using the different program cards, thats going to take some getting used to.

In regards to the Nikon F4 when it was handed to me they told me it had belonged to my aunts stepmother, who had supposedly bought it new but never really used it and that it had spent around 30 years just lying around in their house. The gear was stored in a big photography bag with multiple lenses, a grey filter and other accessories. Now i have heard that plastic bags are a bad way to store those cameras but i have no experience in this field so maybe someone case clear that up for me. Anyway the lenses are gorgeous and feel fine but i will have to test them.

They wanted to show me how to handle the camera and had inserted a new set of AA batteries. I hadn't read the manual at that point but i knew enough to turn it on and try to take a photo. There was an old kodak 12 pictures colour film from 2007 inserted as well. I tried to take a picture from them but there wasn't a reaction. So i handed it back and my uncle managed to take one, or at least there was a sound, and there was light in the LCD under the view-finder but from that moment on the mirrors were stuck in the up position and the shutters didn't react to and presses of the trigger. We couldn't figure out what was wrong but didn't muck about with it because we didn't want to ruin the camera.

I tried looking up solutions and there was mention of sticky foam holding the mirror up, of it being stuck etc. but i wasn't convinced that was it as the shutter didn't release at all which to my knowledge isn't directly linked and should be able to operate independently. It also isnt held up by the lever (Spiegelarretierungshebel) right next to the objective.

So getting suspicious i opened the battery compartment/pack MB-20 thats included in the F4 and lo and behold there was some small amount of green alkaline corrosion in the upper corner, not were the contact with the camera is but opposite from it. So at some point there must have been a leakage possibly ruining the pack.

Now my question is could a short-circuit or anything like that ruin the entire camera or just the pack itself? the rest of the body etc show no sign of any damage or grime, in fact it looks brand new. But if the pack was not working properly how could the mirror have moved?

I tried cleaning it with vinegar and a q-tip (cotton swab) but without the tiny screwdriver needed to extract the contacts i couldn't get behind one of the battery holders nor underneath the contacts. i will include a picture of how that looks now.
Do you guys think its possible to save the battery compartment or is it a goner? Should i have tried cleaning it or is vinegar a big no no?

I tried various thing like removing the lens from the body and switching the aforementioned "Spiegelarratierungshebel" with no signs of the internal "Blendenkupplungshebel" moving. Is that something that needs Power too ? Because if it is an entirely mechanical part i would be really worried that something else is wrong. That would mean i might have to save up for a body of an F4, if i can find one, just to use all the gear i got and fell in love with at first sight.


I really hope some of you here are knowledgeable enough to help me out, i intend to bring it to the only dedicated Nikon Store in Vienna " Camera United" later this weak but from what i gathered they may sell some old Nikon systems but they repair service specialises on the newer Digital cameras and i'm not sure what it would cost me if they could fix it at all. If not i intend to buy a "new" battery compartment, preferably an MB-20 to see if that fixes things.

Let me know your thoughts and happy shooting in these times
Wolfram1

 

[Kino]

Wolfram.

First of all wecome. I will be brief, but don't take offense, I am at work!

Be sure your AA batteries are fresh and of good quality; cheap AAs may not have enough power to run the camera properly.

Your battery holder looks fine but it does need more cleaning. Use a fine pointed toothpick and clean out all the green verdigris, burnish the chrome with some very fine steel wood wrapped on a cotton bud and get some electronics contact cleaner to wipe down the contacts on the battery holder and on the internal contacts of the camera.

Get the old film out of the body; that could be jammed and be jamming the mechanism itself. In fact, if it's been in the camera all that time, it might have glued itself to the film rails of the aperture. I have seen this happen quite often on cameras stored loaded for many years. You can remove the corrosion on the rails with Brasso or Flitz metal polish (clean with alcohol afterwards!) without an issue.

The camera may have to be cycled and played with to get it to start functioning, but knowing F4s, it should come back to life!

I am sure others will chime in here with more possible solutions, so check back and good luck!

 

[shutterfinger]

Replace the battery holder. You may be able to find a clean one on ebay.

 

[Wolfram 1]

Thanks for the quick reply Kino.
I have removed the film already, the AAs are new duracell plus power alkaline batteries so i think they should hold up even if they aren't as powerful as some of the lithium variants out there. I tried checking for a reaction from the camera to see if they were working, but only came up with the self timer function prompting a light as a test and that didn't work. It might be i am missing something because frankly all the dials and different functions on this F4 are a little intimidating still.

I know i haven't really completed the cleanup because i was worried to break something else. i will try to get all the loose grains out but sadly i haven't got a fine steel wool. Do u mean something like the steel wool used to brush pots and pans or something different? I will have to get that electronics cleaner in the camera store as i wont have time to do much shopping in the meantime. Im sure that will get useful anyway as i plan to get a X300 at some point again as well and all 3 will probably need some regular upkeep anyway.

i will gladly try anything u guys suggest as long as i feel capable in not destroying the camera, so nothing to fancy especially as i lack the proper tools.

thx again

 

[Wolfram 1]

Replace the battery holder. You may be able to find a clean one on ebay.

if all else fails i will definitely do that

 

[Paul Howell]

You might want to find a beater body on Ebay as a donor in case you need the parts down the road. The F4 is a really solid camera, rugged, pro build. The Minolta 7xi is a mid level, upper mid level if that makes any sense, just under the 9xi which was the top of line Minolta at the time. I believe it's aufto focus is a generation or two newer then the F4, has fast film advance, but not equal to the F4, and your right the card system is a pain. Another pluse is that can a lot of very good entry level lens for not much money, at least here in the U.S.

 

[shutterfinger]

I bought my F4s new in 1991. I 2009 I took it out and found the Duracells had leaked. I cleaned the corrosion out and the camera worked with fresh batteries. A month later the camera would not turn on. I bought a used MB21 off ebay and swapped the grip holder section and it worked fine. Stored away for 5 years without batteries it sometimes does not work with fresh batteries but switching between NiCad and LR6 gets it going again. I need to tear it apart and clean contacts.
Nikon's are current supply dependent. Any weakness, visible or not, in the battery contacts will prevent operation. The F4s will show both battery check lights on on the MB21 but the camera will not operate properly with batteries that are close to only lighting one light.

I also had a MD15 for the FA that would not work intermittently and a new battery holder cured it. The contacts looked perfect and it checked good with an ohm meter, less than 1 ohm from contact to contact, exact battery voltage of the installed batteries. Go figure.

 

[Wolfram 1]

Thank you Paul, i had intended to use this one as a "beater body?" in case there was something non fixable in it but hadn't thought of getting a broken one for parts . That's a great idea ether way. I'm not sure if i will be able to do any repairs myself but with the mechanical build of the F4 i might manage some minor things. Is there a screwdriver kit that you could recommend for something like this. The right screwdrivers can get u a looong way and will stay with u an entire life if treated right so its definitely an investment worth making but having useless ones that just l around is a waist.

The Dynax 7xi wouldnt have been my first choice ether as i was originally intending to start with an entirely/almost mechanical body, but u don't look a gift-horse in its mouth and i think i will have a blast with it anyway. And as far as i know both have excellent lenses that are worth much more than the body today.

 

[Wolfram 1]

I bought my F4s new in 1991. I 2009 I took it out and found the Duracells had leaked. I cleaned the corrosion out and the camera worked with fresh batteries. A month later the camera would not turn on. I bought a used MB21 off ebay and swapped the grip holder section and it worked fine. Stored away for 5 years without batteries it sometimes does not work with fresh batteries but switching between NiCad and LR6 gets it going again. I need to tear it apart and clean contacts.
Nikon's are current supply dependent. Any weakness, visible or not, in the battery contacts will prevent operation. The F4s will show both battery check lights on on the MB21 but the camera will not operate properly with batteries that are close to only lighting one light.

I also had a MD15 for the FA that would not work intermittently and a new battery holder cured it. The contacts looked perfect and it checked good with an ohm meter, less than 1 ohm from contact to contact, exact battery voltage of the installed batteries. Go figure.

i see i really hope that this is its only problem, i havent read to much about the batteries so far i will have to educate myself on this topic.

Do u think a corroded battery pack can damage the electrical parts of the camera without any spills on the body itself?

 

[vlasta]

Try to shorten middle contacts with plain alu foil from kitchen.
New MB20/21 battery holders are not cheap, so you must try before buy it.
What is condition of the middle contacts in body ?

 

[Wolfram 1]

Try to shorten middle contacts with plain alu foil from kitchen.
New MB20/21 battery holders are not cheap, so you must try before buy it.
What is condition of middle contacts in body ?

not sure what u mean exactly, i'm sorry but i am new to all this, could u elaborate? I can make a few further pictures if that helps

 

[vlasta]

Well this is place where to put the short circuit foil:

Pay attention to use conductive side of foil, that shiny, on both sides of this short circuit (on side to the contacts and side to the batteries) !!
Also take a good cleaning of the contacts in the body.
This would be enough.
If it not works ... well new battery holder will not help, as I see.

 

[Wolfram 1]

ok i tried that with the foil but as far as i can tell it did nothing, what could that mean?

 

[vlasta]

Well wait a few minutes, I am going to dig up my MB-20 to see state of affair

 

[Wolfram 1]

roger that, thanks for taking the time vlasta

 

[shutterfinger]

At the top of the holder are contacts with pins in the body that mate with them. Are they shinny brass or are they dull? Did the battery corrosion contaminate these contacts?

 

[vlasta]

Well here I am. You have problem on contacts in upper side of holder.
Next step is to measure voltage on battery holder.
Here is a picture.
Put the probes of digital multimeter on that two holes, of course from bottom side on this picture (batteries with foil are in place !).
Range DC, 20V (or around, 10). Our construction with foil MUST show around 6V.
(If you have not DMM go to someone who have it.)
If there is not voltage play with foil and cleaning of contacts until it shows.
Eventually put foil also on the bottom central contacts of holder.
Until you have not voltage at that points we can not say if the problem is within the body itself.

 

[Wolfram 1]

as far as i can see the 5 brass contacts are perfectly shiny and ok, i made a photo but that looks less klear than with the bare eye

Well here I am. You have problem on contacts in upper side of holder
Next step is to measure voltage on battery holder.
Here is a picture:

i fear i dont have anything at hand to measure the voltage but im sure they will be able to at the store later this week

 

[Kino]

Another thing that can get corrosion is the power switch around the shutter release. Use a tiny bit of electronic contact cleaner, shot into the crack around the switch ring, and exercise the power switch to try to clean it up. Only use a short burst, don't flood it and work the power on and off repeatedly with the camera upside down. Leave it overnight on a cloth to absorb any cleaner that will drain out of the camera.

 

[Wolfram 1]

i can only assume that those pins are for the other battery packs as the MB-20 doesnt have any brass pins, just the 2 silver coloured contacts

 

[Wolfram 1]

Another thing that can get corrosion is the power switch around the shutter release. Use a tiny bit of electronic contact cleaner, shot into the crack around the switch ring, and exercise the power switch to try to clean it up. Only use a short burst, don't flood it and work the power on and off repeatedly with the camera upside down. Leave it overnight on a cloth to absorb any cleaner that will drain out of the camera.

interesting i will try this but only after having the store check the camera out, i dont feel entirely comfortable using liquids for anything other than cleaning it with a swab, at least not until i have exhausted other options

that dial feels fine though

 

[vlasta]

Without measurement we can't localize problem.
Contacts on picture above are ok.
MB-20 do not use this brass contacts, only that chromed.
Contacts with batteries are made by that two fat contacts.
They have nipple in center, with spring.
Press both to check if they are moving inside, and that they returns in position easy.
Nevertheless clean all contacts till they shine

Waiting for measurement results.

 

[Wolfram 1]

Thx a bunch, i will post any updates on my progress but in the meantime any input is welcome

Its great that there is places like this were people help each other with these Problems.
After all experience is the best teacher.

by for now, as i have to get up early and thanks for all the help so far!

 

[BradS]

I would fill a small dish with vinegar and soak the corroded end of the battery holder in it for 24 hours or more. It might not help much but you got nothing to loose. You're not going to make the battery holder any worse than it is by doing this...

 

[Wolfram 1]

I would fill a small dish with vinegar and soak the corroded end of the battery holder in it for 24 hours or more. It might not help much but you got nothing to loose. You're not going to make the battery holder any worse than it is by doing this...

wouldnt it be better to get the proper screwdriver and soak the contact plate alone? not sure if vinegar attacks the plastic, probably not but i wouldn't want to risk it., i might try that tomorrow if i can borrow one at short notice