Nikon F2 - Pre-AI or AI lenses? Also CLA question.

[Paul Howell]

I did not upgrade my lens until I move up from the F2 with Dp 2 finder to a F3P, the only lens I replaced was the 28mm to an AIS version. There are some fine non AI lens at bargain prices.

 

[Chan Tran]

Generally speaking, most (almost all) manual focus Nikon SLR light meters are heavily center weighted. The Nikon FA is a notable exception, it has an early variation on matrix metering and is fantastically amazing.

More importantly however is the fact that all Nikon F2 are now more than 40 years old. As good as the metering is/was, don't expect too many of the existing Nikon F2 light meters to be very accurate. In my experience, the probability of getting a Nikon F2 with working light meter that is accurate across the full specified operational range (from bright to dim light) today is less than 50%. Many seem to be pretty accurate but they're really only accurate in a small sweet spot of the brightness range (and that may be good enough). The DP-3 and DP-12 with their photo diodes seem to fare better than the DP-1, DP-2 and DP11 with CdS cells in this regard but it's hard to say for sure. If you want a manual focus Nikon with an accurate light meter and accurate shutter speeds, the best choice today seems, to me at least, to be the Nikon F3, or Nikon FM3A or perhaps, even a Nikon F4.

I've personally owned at least a dozen Nikon F2 over the past ten years and currently own five. At present, I have the DP-1, DP-2, DP-3 and DP-11 finders. Each has it's own charm. Some of them have developed little quirks. I like them all and I honestly could not choose a favorite among them. They're all good and each has it's own pros and cons. Don't expect perfection from any of these ~45 year old machines. Just get one in reasonably good condition and enjoy it.

Except for the F3 which has its sensor in the mirror box and has to measure light thru the tiny holes in the mirror so it has an 80/20 center weighted. All Nikon manual focus cameras have 60/40 center weighted and that is by no mean heavily center weighted. The Nikon AF cameras have 75/25 center weighted which is significantly more heavily center weighted than the manual focus ones except the F3.

 

[benjiboy]

Just to play devil's advocate, the Achilles heel of the Nikon F 2 after all these years is the majority of them have a worn carbon track in the metering head that only Sover Wong here in Britain has replacements for in the whole world, and he has a several years waiting list for his services.
I suggest you consider the Canon F1n that has just as good or better built quality than the F 2, but the light meter is in the camera body and it uses a beam splitter in the focusing screen to divert the light coming through the lens into the meter, which has proven over time to be a better and more reliable system that has stood the test of time better than Nikon's metering system.
I believe after thirty years or more there are a many more Canon F1n's available on the used market with working light meters than Nikon F2's

 

[Twotone]

Generally speaking, most (almost all) manual focus Nikon SLR light meters are heavily center weighted. The Nikon FA is a notable exception, it has an early variation on matrix metering and is fantastically amazing.

More importantly however is the fact that all Nikon F2 are now more than 40 years old. As good as the metering is/was, don't expect too many of the existing Nikon F2 light meters to be very accurate. In my experience, the probability of getting a Nikon F2 with working light meter that is accurate across the full specified operational range (from bright to dim light) today is less than 50%. Many seem to be pretty accurate but they're really only accurate in a small sweet spot of the brightness range (and that may be good enough). The DP-3 and DP-12 with their photo diodes seem to fare better than the DP-1, DP-2 and DP11 with CdS cells in this regard but it's hard to say for sure. If you want a manual focus Nikon with an accurate light meter and accurate shutter speeds, the best choice today seems, to me at least, to be the Nikon F3, or Nikon FM3A or perhaps, even a Nikon F4.

I've personally owned at least a dozen Nikon F2 over the past ten years and currently own five. At present, I have the DP-1, DP-2, DP-3 and DP-11 finders. Each has it's own charm. Some of them have developed little quirks. I like them all and I honestly could not choose a favorite among them. They're all good and each has it's own pros and cons. Don't expect perfection from any of these ~45 year old machines. Just get one in reasonably good condition and enjoy it.

Thanks Brad,

Some really valid points! I'm going into this with low expectations around metering, so appreciate the insight into the reality of these older meters.

Part of me suspected this given we are spoilt with much more modern meters on other cameras etc.

I'm starting to lean more towards a DE-1 meterless prism.

Thanks!

 

[Twotone]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far, I appreciate the info.

I'm leaning towards a DE-1 Meter-less prism, given I have a few good external lightmeters + a few other cameras with good meters that I can use out in the field worst case (assuming I wanted to avoid sunny 16!)

Thanks

 

[Twotone]

Just to play devil's advocate, the Achilles heel of the Nikon F 2 after all these years is the majority of them have a worn carbon track in the metering head that only Sover Wong here in Britain has replacements for in the whole world, and he has a several years waiting list for his services.
I suggest you consider the Canon F1n that has just as good or better built quality than the F 2, but the light meter is in the camera body and it uses a beam splitter in the focusing screen to divert the light coming through the lens into the meter, which has proven over time to be a better and more reliable system that has stood the test of time better than Nikon's metering system.
I believe after thirty years or more there are a many more Canon F1n's available on the used market with working light meters than Nikon F2's

Good to know we have an expert on our side of the pond!

I'm leaning towards a Meter-less prism for the F2 currently.

Cheers!

 

[GregY]

Having used all the Fs from F to F5...... i'd go for the F2 with the prism finder...no meter... or if you're flush, a real gem is the F2 Titan

 

[Chan Tran]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far, I appreciate the info.

I'm leaning towards a DE-1 Meter-less prism, given I have a few good external lightmeters + a few other cameras with good meters that I can use out in the field worst case (assuming I wanted to avoid sunny 16!)

Thanks

The DE-1 is expensive these days so may be getting the DP-1 (because it's the least expensive) and not using the meter?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Generally speaking, most (almost all) manual focus Nikon SLR light meters are heavily center weighted. The Nikon FA is a notable exception, it has an early variation on matrix metering and is fantastically amazing.

More importantly however is the fact that all Nikon F2 are now more than 40 years old. As good as the metering is/was, don't expect too many of the existing Nikon F2 light meters to be very accurate. In my experience, the probability of getting a Nikon F2 with working light meter that is accurate across the full specified operational range (from bright to dim light) today is less than 50%. Many seem to be pretty accurate but they're really only accurate in a small sweet spot of the brightness range (and that may be good enough). The DP-3 and DP-12 with their photo diodes seem to fare better than the DP-1, DP-2 and DP11 with CdS cells in this regard but it's hard to say for sure. If you want a manual focus Nikon with an accurate light meter and accurate shutter speeds, the best choice today seems, to me at least, to be the Nikon F3, or Nikon FM3A or perhaps, even a Nikon F4.

I've personally owned at least a dozen Nikon F2 over the past ten years and currently own five. At present, I have the DP-1, DP-2, DP-3 and DP-11 finders. Each has it's own charm. Some of them have developed little quirks. I like them all and I honestly could not choose a favorite among them. They're all good and each has it's own pros and cons. Don't expect perfection from any of these ~45 year old machines. Just get one in reasonably good condition and enjoy it.

Find a light meter calibration lab. Call Samy's Camera and ask them how to get it done.

 

[Paul Howell]

If your going meterless, then you have the option of a F body, I was gifted a black F with standard prism, it has been well used but overall function well. Unless you need the 1/2000th top shutter speed or the improved motor drive, don't rule out the F. Then again, if you dont need a motor drive, bluk film back or interchanable screens, why a F2 at all? I used both my Minolta 202 and Konica T3 more than my F, the meters work, well built with great lens.

 

[GregY]

If your going meterless, then you have the option of a F body, I was gifted a black F with standard prism, it has been well used but overall function well. Unless you need the 1/2000th top shutter speed or the improved motor drive, don't rule out the F. Then again, if you dont need a motor drive, bluk film back or interchanable screens, why a F2 at all? I used both my Minolta 202 and Konica T3 more than my F, the meters work, well built with great lens.

Paul, I'd take the F..... but i had them in my hands for years. Most people prefer the smoother feel of the F2... which it seems the OP has decided on. Why the F2?..... well that's a choice. I'd suspect he doesn't have/want multiple systems. The T3 is a gem....but not one everyone is looking for.

 

[Pieter12]

If you don't care about til metering, any prism and lens will do. AI is only about metering, and a prism is a prism if you ignore the meter. Just the metering prisms are more bulky.

 

[BradS]

I'm leaning towards a DE-1 Meter-less prism...

As already mentioned the DE-1 has become a high status fashion accessory and is therefore stupidly expensive. There is also a major downside to using a DE-1. The DE-1 does not show any information in the viewfinder - no aperture, no shutter speed. For this reason alone, I strongly prefer even a broken DP-1 or DP-11 to the meterless DE-1. Even if the DE-1 were less expensive, like it used to be, I wouldn't want one. I'd rather have a DP-1 or DP-11 with a non-functional light meter than a DE-1.

 

[Twotone]

As already mentioned the DE-1 has become a high status fashion accessory and is therefore stupidly expensive. There is also a major downside to using a DE-1. The DE-1 does not show any information in the viewfinder - no aperture, no shutter speed. For this reason alone, I strongly prefer even a broken DP-1 or DP-11 to the meterless DE-1. Even if the DE-1 were less expensive, like it used to be, I wouldn't want one. I'd rather have a DP-1 or DP-11 with a non-functional light meter than a DE-1.

Understood, many thanks! I wouldn't go for one unless it was the right price but still considering all options!

 

[George Mann]

The F2 is a neat, professional quality camera that is designed to be frequently serviced.

It has a less than state of the art mishmash of metering finders (when they work).

They are heavy, and need a good grip with long heavy lenses.

The FM series however has a better meter circuit, and full led shutter speed display.

They are smaller and lighter than the F2, and are designed to be completely reliable and dependable with zero service.

They do however require a good grip to properly fit the hand, and balance with long heavy lenses.

 

[GregY]

The DE-1 is expensive these days so may be getting the DP-1 (because it's the least expensive) and not using the meter?

The DE-1 is often more expensive alone than buying an F2 with a DE-1. With the DE-1 is one of the most desirable configurations for that camera. It's smaller, lighter, balances better. So if you want the plain prism i suggest buying it that way from the start.
The FM is a good camera & i used a few.....but the F/F2 100% finder is a big sales feature ....

 

[Chan Tran]

The DE-1 is often more expensive alone than buying an F2 with a DE-1. With the DE-1 is one of the most desirable configurations for that camera. It's smaller, lighter, balances better. So if you want the plain prism i suggest buying it that way from the start.
The FM is a good camera & i used a few.....but the F/F2 100% finder is a big sales feature ....

Well if you never have an F2 perhaps it's OK. I bought my F2AS back in 1977 and one day I went into the camera store and they had a DE-1 black demo for $42. Since it match my camera I bought it. I do enjoy using it but I can't see paying a premium to have it.
Fast forward to 1984, I was managing a 1 hr photo finishing and I had the camera on my desk and someone took it. So I gave the DE-1 to a friend of mine and I think he still has it.

 

[GregY]

Well if you never have an F2 perhaps it's OK. I bought my F2AS back in 1977 and one day I went into the camera store and they had a DE-1 black demo for $42. Since it match my camera I bought it. I do enjoy using it but I can't see paying a premium to have it.
Fast forward to 1984, I was managing a 1 hr photo finishing and I had the camera on my desk and someone took it. So I gave the DE-1 to a friend of mine and I think he still has it.

Back when they were current i had. both as well.. but after years of LF and MF work with cameras with no meters, i value/choose the camera and don't care for the meter. F & F2 are inexpensive now by any metric you choose. If I were looking for an F or F2.... F2/DE-1 are as cheap as $219 and a chrome F/DE-1 as cheap as $120.

 

[Alan9940]

They are smaller and lighter than the F2, and are designed to be completely reliable and dependable with zero service.

I bought my F2 new and have used it for nearly 50 years with zero service, other than replacing one small piece of foam that absorbs mirror slap...don't think you can get much more reliable than that! I have the DP-1 finder and have no idea if the meter still works, as I tend to use "seat of the pants" or an external meter to determine exposure.

 

[George Mann]

I bought my F2 new and have used it for nearly 50 years with zero service, other than replacing one small piece of foam that absorbs mirror slap...don't think you can get much more reliable than that!

When was the last time you shot a roll of slide film with it?

I have the DP-1 finder and have no idea if the meter still works, as I tend to use "seat of the pants" or an external meter to determine exposure.

I have a working DP-1 which I am happy with, but would like a DP-3.

 

[250swb]

The FM series however has a better meter circuit, and full led shutter speed display.

The FM has a mechanically connected shutter speed display in the viewfinder, which ironically is even better for the OP who wants to create a future proof system not reliant on electronic features. But I take your point. The interesting thing about an FM, FM2, FM2n in terms of being future proof is that any lens that will work with that will also work with the vast majority of other mechanical Nikons (and of course many electronic ones as well). This simplifies everything for the OP because he only need collect one type of lens, anything beginning with 'Ai'. In terms of 'keeping it simple' an FM would work, and especially an FM2n just in case the extra shutter speed is ever important (f/1.4 wide open on a sunny day).

I'm lucky enough to have F's and F2's and it's cheaper to buy either one with a working metered head than with the plain DE-1 prism. If the meter fails in the future both cameras will still work, but with an F you are carrying around a heavy useless lump of non-working Photomic head while the F2 is still manageable and far more compact with a failed DP-1 head. For that alone I'd get an F2 with a working DP-1 as a first camera. If the romance of a true classic is important (and why not) an F with a standard eye level prism finder is a good choice, but beware of de-silvering of the prism, often a problem if the camera has been used professionally or in a humid country, so only buy a good one.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Definitely go for AI, that will vastly increase your lens options. AI will let you use all of Nikons old AI lenses, as well as the modern ones that are still being manufactured.

The AI vs non AI makes no difference in quality. The AI (Automatic Indexing) is just the coupler for the apperture ring and has nothing to do with the optics of the lens. Nikon still use the very same coupler today on their AF lenses.

except that AI glass is often of a more modern design and non AI is already cherished for their antique rendering qualities. I'd opt for Ai if it were me.

 

[Twotone]

The FM has a mechanically connected shutter speed display in the viewfinder, which ironically is even better for the OP who wants to create a future proof system not reliant on electronic features. But I take your point. The interesting thing about an FM, FM2, FM2n in terms of being future proof is that any lens that will work with that will also work with the vast majority of other mechanical Nikons (and of course many electronic ones as well). This simplifies everything for the OP because he only need collect one type of lens, anything beginning with 'Ai'. In terms of 'keeping it simple' an FM would work, and especially an FM2n just in case the extra shutter speed is ever important (f/1.4 wide open on a sunny day).

I'm lucky enough to have F's and F2's and it's cheaper to buy either one with a working metered head than with the plain DE-1 prism. If the meter fails in the future both cameras will still work, but with an F you are carrying around a heavy useless lump of non-working Photomic head while the F2 is still manageable and far more compact with a failed DP-1 head. For that alone I'd get an F2 with a working DP-1 as a first camera. If the romance of a true classic is important (and why not) an F with a standard eye level prism finder is a good choice, but beware of de-silvering of the prism, often a problem if the camera has been used professionally or in a humid country, so only buy a good one.

Thanks for raising this point around FM2n, I friend also suggested this to me when I spoke with him this morning.

At the risk of starting a whole other discussion point, are there any downsides in terms of build quality, reliability, parts availability of an FM2n Vs F2?

Rightly or wrongly I feel as though the F2 will go on forever with just routine servicing, whereas I'm unsure if the FM2n is the same or if I'm correct at all about the F2.

Putting them side by side, I don't need prism interchangeability, however the easy of switching out faulty parts on the F2 is definitely a benefit e.g prism desilvers or meter goes and I want a working meter.

I would rather a lighter camera out of the two, so I know the FM2n sounds like the better option, but I am looking for absolute reliability, and a camera that will see out the next 50+ years of my life (ever the optimist!).

Thanks!

 

[George Mann]

As I stated earlier, the FM series is designed to work reliably over its entire lifetime with zero service!

 

[250swb]

Thanks for raising this point around FM2n, I friend also suggested this to me when I spoke with him this morning.

At the risk of starting a whole other discussion point, are there any downsides in terms of build quality, reliability, parts availability of an FM2n Vs F2?

Rightly or wrongly I feel as though the F2 will go on forever with just routine servicing, whereas I'm unsure if the FM2n is the same or if I'm correct at all about the F2.

Putting them side by side, I don't need prism interchangeability, however the easy of switching out faulty parts on the F2 is definitely a benefit e.g prism desilvers or meter goes and I want a working meter.

I would rather a lighter camera out of the two, so I know the FM2n sounds like the better option, but I am looking for absolute reliability, and a camera that will see out the next 50+ years of my life (ever the optimist!).

Thanks!

The FM's were used by professionals, and given they can take a motor the mechanism is built to withstand that. But if you are unlucky they can have common problems like the mirror sticking up and locking the shutter release, although this is usually a pretty easy DIY fix. You're probably going to find it as reliable as any other Nikon although they don't take knocks like an F or an F2. It's worth mentioning that if you do searches for specific camera faults you'll only get results for people who've had a problem, the tens of thousands of people who've never had a fault remain quiet.