Nikon F vs F2: fit & finish

[benjiboy]

All of mine work except a DP-2. That makes Nine working, one not working. The DP-3 and DP-12 use Silicon Photo Diodes, like the Canon F1 New which came out much later. The original Canon F1 (and the slightly revised version) use CDS cells like the Nikon F Photomic meters and DP-1, DP-2, and DP-11. CDS cells can lose sensitivity over time, usually on the lowest end and highest end of the range. The advantage of the Nikon F and F2: you can replace the meter head with ones that works. With the Canon- body needs to be taken apart for the repair.

The meters on my Canon F1 (original version) and Canon EF (The real one, not that AF stuff) work just fine. The latter was $35, missing a screw that was causing wind backlash. Turns out a screw from a Fed-2 worked just fine.

SO- Nikon F and F2, comparable in terms of meter reliability and the Nikon is easier to fix.

Canon 7: I bought a Canon 50/0.95 with a Canon 7 "lens cap". Was cheap, ~$500. The Canon 7 had been dropped so hard that the prism for the framelines sheered at the base "through the glass". Shards everywhere in the mechanism. I cleaned the glass shards out and glued the prism back together, worked fine. Bottom line of the 35mm frame a little fuzzy. The Canon 7 and Canon P sound louder than the earlier cameras, metal foil shutter. Other than not having a cold shoe- no issues. The Canon V series was the last to use gold for the beamsplitters rather than silver, as per cameraquest. The Canon P dropped the linkage for the auto-parallax corrected external finder.

The Canon EF also has Silicone Photo Diode metering.

P.S. I have four Canon F 1s ( 2 F1ns and 2 New F1s), all are more than 30 years old, and to my knowledge have never been serviced, I have checked all the meters against each other with a Kodak Grey Card, and a digital spot meter, to find they agree on with each other to within two tenths of a stop, which I think is pretty amazing.

 

[flavio81]

The advantage of the Nikon F and F2: you can replace the meter head with ones that works. With the Canon- body needs to be taken apart for the repair.

So far every Nikon F i have had (5 in total) had a bad meter (bad cds cells), except for one which I could resurrect. On the other hand that one was a FTN model, while the others were Photomic TN models, which are older and thus i guess those CdS cells were not so resilient.

Nikon F2 needle-based metering heads will almost always require service to work OK, even if they appear to work.

Every single Canon F-1 that has passed through my hands (about 8 or 9?) had a working meter. It's obvious why: the system is electrically far simpler. On the Nikon metering heads (for F or F2), the electrical path is relatively more complex: there's the brass potentiometer ring, the wipers, a PCB, contacts between the top part of the meter and the bottom part of the meter, etc etc. More parts to get dirty, corrode.

 

[GregY]

Canon F1 both old & new are great cameras, no question about it, but they are really a side discussion when someone is deciding on a Nilkon F or F2 without a meter prism,

 

[__Brian]

So far every Nikon F i have had (5 in total) had a bad meter (bad cds cells), except for one which I could resurrect. On the other hand that one was a FTN model, while the others were Photomic TN models, which are older and thus i guess those CdS cells were not so resilient.

Nikon F2 needle-based metering heads will almost always require service to work OK, even if they appear to work.

Every single Canon F-1 that has passed through my hands (about 8 or 9?) had a working meter. It's obvious why: the system is electrically far simpler. On the Nikon metering heads (for F or F2), the electrical path is relatively more complex: there's the brass potentiometer ring, the wipers, a PCB, contacts between the top part of the meter and the bottom part of the meter, etc etc. More parts to get dirty, corrode.

I just have not had the same problems with my Nikon F Photomic metering heads. I've owned my Nikon F "Bullseye" since 1978, bought second hand for $150. Photomic T, Photomic Tn, and 5 Photomic FTn meters. I've taken a couple apart and cleaned the variable resister rings and pickups- an easy job. I am selective about buying cameras, most from used camera stores between 1978 and 2000.Rule Number 1: Look for cameras kept in ever-ready cases. Most pro's do not use them, and means the camera is stored in the Dark.

I have not bought a Nikon F in 25 years, and only one "as-is jammed" Nikon F2 for a $25 donation to charity. I fixed that one. I've Six Nikon F bodies, two with eye-level, one waist-level, two FTn, and one "bare body" given to me in the last 5 years. The meters were fine. Two of the bodies are Questar-modified mirror-up. Also had an F2 with DE-1 given to me. So- last count, 14 Nikon F bodies and 12 Nikon F2 bodies. People at work know I like old cameras, so they drop them off to me. Five F3 bodies. Total cost less than the Df, the last Nikon that I bought new.

My Selenium Meter 3 still works, and is accurate.

NikonF_CliponMeter by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

(40 years ago you could walk into a camera shop and pick this up for $100. What would you do?)

These cameras are between 62 years old and 42 years old. 1959 through to 1980. My oldest Nikon F is from 1960 and the newest F2 is from 1980. They all work. Most of the meters work. Condition and how they were maintained is everything on these cameras. Back to - look for one kept in a case used by an amateur. Make sure batteries were not left in the compartments.

 

[flavio81]

I just have not had the same problems with my Nikon F Photomic metering heads. I've owned my Nikon F "Bullseye" since 1978, bought second hand for $150. Photomic T, Photomic Tn, and 5 Photomic FTn meters. I've taken a couple apart and cleaned the variable resister rings and pickups- an easy job. I am selective about buying cameras, most from used camera stores between 1978 and 2000.Rule Number 1: Look for cameras kept in ever-ready cases. Most pro's do not use them, and means the camera is stored in the Dark.

I wonder how's the climate where you live. My city is extremely humid (82% HR right now out there). CdS cells suffer with this, particularly the older ones.

Put a camera in a very dry environment and it will be 'like new' forever.

 

[flavio81]

Canon F1 both old & new are great cameras, no question about it, but they are really a side discussion when someone is deciding on a Nilkon F or F2 without a meter prism,

Sorry, you're correct.

Anyways... The best choice would be for the OP to try them first. Perhaps going to some camera store or photographers' club.

 

[__Brian]

I wonder how's the climate where you live. My city is extremely humid (82% HR right now out there). CdS cells suffer with this, particularly the older ones.

Put a camera in a very dry environment and it will be 'like new' forever.

I agree- Kept in an air conditioned house, and humidity in Virginia can get high on some days, but for the most part- very comfortable.

No problem with fungus on lenses stored in the original Leather cases, some I've had in them for 40+ years.

Of course an Eye-Level prism, the only problem would be fungus or desilvering. My F2 prisms are all good, two of the Nikon F prisms show desilvering at the seam.

I bought a Nikon SB-7e flash just to test the Neon ready-light in the DE-1. SO, the F2 eye-level DE-1 does have some electronics that the Nikon F eye-level lacks. But they do work.

 

[el_37]

Of the 2- I feel the F is the better choice for you since you have no need for metering. The back issue is overstated IMO and a lot of the Nikon F's idiosyncrasies only come into play when wanting to use motor drives, meter prisms, mirror lockup, and other accessories that almost anyone shooting film today doesn't really need to bother with anymore.

The F2 is also a nice camera, and I would rather use one over the F if I desired TTL metering or a motor drive. But I would rather use an FE or an FM these days than an F2 if I desired those features. Or even an F3.

Personally when using the 2 with plain prisms- I just always preferred the F. The F2 is certainly an improvement on the F- but for a non motor drive user- it wasn't a large enough difference to matter. With the low prices of either today- with the exception of collector grade rarities- I would just pick which one you like the looks of better. They really aren't that much different if you aren't using meter prisms or motor drives..

In your case- I think you are better off getting an original Leicaflex. If you don't like the feel/build quality of a Canon 7- you probably won't be very happy with a Nikon F or F2. The Nikons work forever, but none have that Germanic feel that you seem to really like. They feel much more like a Canon 7 then an M3.

If you shoot mainly with a screw mount Leica and a Rolleiflex- I think the rather limited lens system of the early Leicaflex won't be a detriment for you. Yes the R lenses can be expensive, but you can still find original clean and working Leicaflex's with the 50mm Summicron for under $500USD- and the earlier 35/90/135 lenses go for much less money than the later R versions that debuted with the R3.

 

[Chuck1]

Juggling the film back and body while loading film makes me vote for the f2

 

[__Brian]

Note that the original Leicaflex does not have interchangeable focusing screens. I did not like the "aerial view" with only the central spot for focusing.

Both the F and F2 use the same screens, and have a large assortment available. The type "F" screen, large microprism circle, cannot be used in the TTL Photomic meters.

The Ever-ready case for the Nikon F makes a convenient holder for the Back when changing film.

 

[Disappointed_Horse]

too much of the wrong kind of good & not enough of the right kind of wrong

That is a wonderful turn of phrase. I love it!

 

[benjiboy]

Canon F1 both old & new are great cameras, no question about it, but they are really a side discussion when someone is deciding on a Nilkon F or F2 without a meter prism,

The point I was trying to make Greg is, that you stand a much better chance of buying a Canon F1n or a New Canon F1 with an accurate working light meter than a Nikon F, or Nikon F2.

 

[GregY]

The point I was trying to make Greg is, that you stand a much better chance of buying a Canon F1n or a New Canon F1 with an accurate working light meter than a Nikon F, or Nikon F2.

Well that's. true but the OP was looking for a non-metered Nikon ......so the info about Canons is a detail of no useful value.....

 

[benjiboy]

Note that the original Leicaflex does not have interchangeable focusing screens. I did not like the "aerial view" with only the central spot for focusing.

Both the F and F2 use the same screens, and have a large assortment available. The type "F" screen, large microprism circle, cannot be used in the TTL Photomic meters.

The Ever-ready case for the Nikon F makes a convenient holder for the Back when changing film.

The Nikon F Ever-Ready case is a big brown hard leather one that's neither use not ornament that's an encumbrance to using the camera in my experience, having owned both the camera and the case in the past.

 

[__Brian]

There were several versions of the case for the Nikon F. The brown case was early. The later Black case with two snaps on a flap on the back is easier to use.

The plus side of using an ever-ready case: dampens sound, and more comfortable to hold than the angular edges of the F and of the Rangefinder cameras. For the F and the Rangefinder cameras, I use it during film change.

I've used the Nikon F with fitted case since about 1978, prefer using it with the top unfastened. Your results and taste will vary.

The model of the case I prefer is the CTT (up to 85mm) and CTTZ (for zoom or 105/2.5 attached).

Anybody else notice the cameras in Sam Neil's tent in Jurassic World? Looked like a Nikon FB-6 or FB-9 in the background, on a shelf.

 

[Steve York]

Other then the extra top speed on the F2, I always felt the two non-metered cameras were pretty much the same. I couldn't even tell whether one was louder. Lenses dirt cheap (in a good way) for what you get. I own a couple F's; maybe I'll get an F2 someday. Ha, ha, one of the few affordable original black paint cameras out there.

 

[Les Sarile]

Other then the extra top speed on the F2, I always felt the two non-metered cameras were pretty much the same. I couldn't even tell whether one was louder. Lenses dirt cheap (in a good way) for what you get. I own a couple F's; maybe I'll get an F2 someday. Ha, ha, one of the few affordable original black paint cameras out there.

So is F + F = F2? So instead of solving the equation I just went ahead and got one . . .

F_F2_F by Les DMess, on Flickr

 

[__Brian]

If F+F is F2, then I have an F14.

 

[Huss]

If F+F is F2, then I have an F14.

At one time I had an F24...

 

[__Brian]

At one time I had an F24...

I am happy to see that there is someone else as bad as me!

5 of the 14 were given to me.

 

[lxdude]

How can it be more of a beast? It feels better balanced in the hand. I have the F-1 here and the F2SB here, the difference is evident. Of course, without a metered prism the F2 is more handy. But you get a very precise quasi-spot meter on the F-1 for the same form factor than a plain prism F2!

The first time I tried an F2 Photomic, it felt top heavy. I didn't like it. The first time I tried an F2 with plain prism, it was a revelation. I loved it!

 

[Cholentpot]

The first time I tried an F2 Photomic, it felt top heavy. I didn't like it. The first time I tried an F2 with plain prism, it was a revelation. I loved it!

The F2 with a metered prism is indeed pretty top heavy. I have an F with unmetered prism and it's very well balanced. Maybe I'll try that meter on my F2.

 

[guangong]

I have had one of my F cameras since early 1960s, and acquired an F2 a few years ago. I only use plain prisms. I suppose the only way to choose is to handle both and see which fits you.
As far as build quality, Leica doesn’t come close. Nikon F &F2 are nicely finished inside the cameras. Also, Nikon shutters use ball bearings...never heard of a Nikon needing a periodic shutter adjustment. The only Leica to use ball bearings was a C, during WWII.
By the way, I am a Leica user. Leica won the rangefinder war because of superior design, not build quality.
Most lenses for F and F2 started life as Zeiss clones, some tweaked to be slightly better or faster.

 

[ags2mikon]

I have both F and F2 cameras and like both. I used to use the F2's with motor drives shooting Motorsports and found them to be very reliable. I also used some fm2n's and has 2 shutters pop their rivets. Now I like to use my F cameras to back up my s2 cameras on outings. I'll take a few longer nikkors in F mount along with my rangefinders. As to the best build quality? I think they are both pretty close.

 

[flavio81]

I have had one of my F cameras since early 1960s, and acquired an F2 a few years ago. I only use plain prisms. I suppose the only way to choose is to handle both and see which fits you.
As far as build quality, Leica doesn’t come close. Nikon F &F2 are nicely finished inside the cameras. Also, Nikon shutters use ball bearings...never heard of a Nikon needing a periodic shutter adjustment. The only Leica to use ball bearings was a C, during WWII.
By the way, I am a Leica user. Leica won the rangefinder war because of superior design, not build quality.
Most lenses for F and F2 started life as Zeiss clones, some tweaked to be slightly better or faster.

I applaud your courage, because you're saying an inconvenient truth.