Nikkormat FTn lens advice needed.

KerrKid · Oct 30, 2023

A Nikkormat FTn with a 24mm lens was given to me.

I don’t know if it takes non-ai or if ai lenses will work on it.

I believe my FM and FE will accept non-ai lenses if that’s the direction I have to go.

If I got a 35mm and/or a 50mm lens, is there a particular one that you would suggest.

Thanks for your help.

AnselMortensen · Oct 30, 2023

I'd recommend that you get AI lenses.
Nikon manual focus lenses are backwards-compatible, but not always forward compatible.
The FE and FM take AI lenses, and you can use AI lenses on your FTN, too.
If there are two sets of aperture numbers (one big set, one small set) on the aperture ring of the 24mm lens on the Nikkormat, it's AI.
IIRC, mounting non-AI lenses on your FE or FM will damage the camera's AI mechanism.
50mm f/2 is highly regarded, ubiquitous, and inexpensive.
50mm f/1.4 is also highly regarded. You're paying more for that extra f-stop...
The 50mm f/1.2 lens has attained cult status and price.

KerrKid · Oct 30, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
I'd recommend that you get AI lenses.
Nikon manual focus lenses are backwards-compatible, but not always forward compatible.
The FE and FM take AI lenses, and you can use AI lenses on your FTN, too.
If there are two sets of aperture numbers (one big set, one small set) on the aperture ring of the 24mm lens on the Nikkormat, it's AI.
IIRC, mounting non-AI lenses on your FE or FM will damage the camera's AI mechanism.
50mm f/2 is highly regarded, ubiquitous, and inexpensive.
50mm f/1.4 is also highly regarded. You're paying more for that extra f-stop...
The 50mm f/1.2 lens has attained cult status and price.

Thank you. I just checked and the 24mm lens in an ai lens.

The FM and FE have a little fold-a-way tab that allows the use of non-ai lenses, I believe.

I’ll keep my eyes peeled for a nice 50mm lens.

Nitroplait · Oct 31, 2023

KerrKid said:
The FM and FE have a little fold-a-way tab that allows the use of non-ai lenses, I believe.

Correct. Stop down metering though, so not super convenient. Later FE2/FM2 and forward does not have the feature.

Any Ai or Ais with rabbit ears will work on the non-Ai bodies.

Marco Gilardetti · Oct 31, 2023

I don't get exactly which your original question was. However yes, the FTn works perfectly with both non-Ai and Ai lenses.

If on the other hand you're concerned about mounting this 24mm lens on your FE or FM, should it be non-Ai, as already written by others it will work only in stop-down mode which will defeat the great convenience of full-aperture light metering. In this case, my personal suggestion is to *not* have it modified, but rather resell it fully original and highly collectible as it is, and to buy a corresponding Ai lens with the proceeds.

Concerning the 50mm, I also suggest the f:2 or better yet the f:1,8 which is a very impressive lens, definitely the sharpest "normal" lens I've ever happened to come across. F:1,4 or higher lenses demand higher prices and are surely not sharper; on the other hand the extra aperture which is supposedly their "bonus" is completely useless if you ask me: I can't recall a single photograph that I couldn't take with the f:1,8 but that I could have taken with a f:1,4. Bu of course it's up to you to decide which you like best and fits you best.

Nitroplait · Oct 31, 2023

The 50/2 is plentiful and inexpensive in non-ai, not quite as much but still a bargain in Ai because people seem to prefer the 50/1.8.
The results from the 50/2 has a more pleasant look compared to the more modern and almost sterile look from 50/1.8. Your preferences may be different.
For a truly awesome character 50mm lens you could consider the 50/1.2 AiS. They were made up until recently are easy to find and are amazingly cheap (for a 50/1.2 in any system).

For 35mm there is a good but short lived 35/2.8 that overlapped the non-ai to ai transition but other than that, Nikon’s 35/2.8’s are not that spectacular.
Look for the 35/2 instead, newer is better because of better coating, it can otherwise be a little prone to flare.
Again, if sharpness isn’t your ultimate goal, the 35/1.4 is fantastic and characterful.

FriedLouisStudio · Oct 31, 2023

Lots of famous, rock-solid non-AI lenses from same era as the Nikkormat FTn are out there in great condition for really nice prices these days. The 50 f2 or f1.4, 28/3.5, 55/3.5 Micro, 135/2.8.... classics!

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KerrKid · Oct 31, 2023

Thank you all for clearing things up! I appreciate the info on which lenses offer different characteristics in the range.

The AI 50mm lenses do not seem like a bargain anymore, but that is all fairly relative I'm sure. I will stick to AI lenses and probably lean towards the 50mm f2 and the 35mm f2 based on your comments.

madNbad · Oct 31, 2023

I'v owned a lot of Nikkormat's and a lot of different lenses. If you already have the 24, get a 50 1.8 Series E. They're good lenses and still a bargain. Work with those then decide if you really need a 35.

KerrKid · Oct 31, 2023

madNbad said:
I'v owned a lot of Nikkormat's and a lot of different lenses. If you already have the 24, get a 50 1.8 Series E. They're good lenses and still a bargain. Work with those then decide if you really need a 35.

Hmmm. OK. I'll look into that lens. No pun intended. Thanks.

Chan Tran · Oct 31, 2023

Feature wise the pre AI doesn't offer anything that the AI/AI-s lens doesn't offers except the look. Sometimes people want camera and lens of the same period.

abruzzi · Oct 31, 2023

madNbad said:
I'v owned a lot of Nikkormat's and a lot of different lenses. If you already have the 24, get a 50 1.8 Series E. They're good lenses and still a bargain. Work with those then decide if you really need a 35.

the issue with Series E lenses is they don't have the bunny ears on the aperture ring, so open aperture metering won't work. The FTn requires those ears if you want it to work properly.

For a 50, I'd get the Nikkor-HC 50mm ƒ2 (actually I already have one). Or just the H (the C in HC denotes multicoated, I believe, the H means it has six elements.) Its a great lens and usually cheap.

chuckroast · Oct 31, 2023

KerrKid said:
A Nikkormat FTn with a 24mm lens was given to me.

I don’t know if it takes non-ai or if ai lenses will work on it.

I believe my FM and FE will accept non-ai lenses if that’s the direction I have to go.

If I got a 35mm and/or a 50mm lens, is there a particular one that you would suggest.

Thanks for your help.

Any of the Nikon manual focus lenses with the bunny years should work and couple to the meter properly. However, if the lenses are pre-Ai, they will not work well on later camera bodies starting with the F3 forward through the current crop of FX digitals.

For this reason, I bought Ai, Ai-S, and in one case, Ai-converted, lenses. I am able to use them without problems on a 1950s Nikkormat FT, a late model Nikomat (Japanese version) FTn, three Nikon Fs, an F2, an F3, and a D750. Oh crap, I have too much Nikon gear ....

Chan Tran · Oct 31, 2023

chuckroast said:
However, if the lenses are pre-Ail, they will not work well on later camera bodies starting with the F3 forward through the current crop of FX digitals.

The F3 was introduced in 1980. The AI lenses was introduced in 1977 with the FM and F2A, F2AS as well as the Nikkormat Ft3.

KerrKid · Oct 31, 2023

Ah, I go back and forth due to suggestions. I'll make sure the lens has the bunny ears. But, the HC version seems to be non-ai. Is it not?

@Chuchroast....your Nikon collection is a problem I'd like to have!

mshchem · Oct 31, 2023

Does this camera require mercury cells? I can't remember what Nikkormat switched to silver oxide, FT2?.

Camera will work great with or without a battery.

madNbad · Oct 31, 2023

I’ll try to give you some proper advice this time. The Nikkor H 50 2.0 was introduced to the lens line in the early 1960’s to replace the original Nikkor S 50 2.0. It was a better design with much improved flare control. It stayed in the line until 1979 when it was replaced with the smaller, faster 1.8. It remains one of Nikons best lenses. Most of the ones I owned over the years were the silver nose Nikkor H non-Ai. My favorite for the Nikkormat was the early 70’s HC with the scalloped aperture ring. You could easily find a Ai version. They’re identified by the second set of f numbers and the meter prong has cutouts to allow light through so they could be read in the viewfinder. Nikon added the rubberized focus ring cover around 1975. Just remember the meter dance.

mshchem · Oct 31, 2023

Putting the older lenses on a Nikon DSLR gives one an instant realization just how terrific these older lenses are.

The pro Ai-s lenses that ran concurrent with the F3 are as good as anything sold today. IMHO.

madNbad · Oct 31, 2023

Here's the HC 50 2.0 Non-Ai on a Nikkormat FS:

KerrKid · Oct 31, 2023

madNbad said:
I’ll try to give you some proper advice this time. The Nikkor H 50 2.0 was introduced to the lens line in the early 1960’s to replace the original Nikkor S 50 2.0. It was a better design with much improved flare control. It stayed in the line until 1979 when it was replaced with the smaller, faster 1.8. It remains one of Nikons best lenses. Most of the ones I owned over the years were the silver nose Nikkor H non-Ai. My favorite for the Nikkormat was the early 70’s HC with the scalloped aperture ring. You could easily find a Ai version. They’re identified by the second set of f numbers and the meter prong has cutouts to allow light through so they could be read in the viewfinder. Nikon added the rubberized focus ring cover around 1975. Just remember the meter dance.

Gotcha. Thanks. I just didn't see the non-ai version on ebay while searching. I'll keep looking.

Yeh, the meter dance. I keep forgetting how that goes. Something about setting the f stop on the lens to 5.6 when mounting it and then turning the aperture ring one way and then the other.

chuckroast · Oct 31, 2023

KerrKid said:
Ah, I go back and forth due to suggestions. I'll make sure the lens has the bunny ears. But, the HC version seems to be non-ai. Is it not?

@Chuchroast....your Nikon collection is a problem I'd like to have!

There is nothing particularly wrong with pre-AI lenses as a long you understand that:

They will only do wide open metering on cameras with the prong that engages the bunny ears. The last "pro" body that had this, was the F2, not sure about their prosumer film cameras. You CAN use these lenses but you have to do stop down metering on the newer bodies.
In some cases, the newer lens designs were better, and in pretty much all cases the newer lenses had better multicoating.

That said, I have an AI converted 135mm f/3.5 Nikkor that's a lovely portrait shooter. Best of all, the pre-AIs are dirt cheap.

I sort of accidentally fell into "collecting" Nikons. I've always had a few around for emotional/historical reasons in that I mostly shoot LF and MF. Then the local camera store showed me a pristine F2 that I'd always wanted when I was young. Then I found a nearly NIB F3 that I had to have. Then the aforementioned store showed me an almost perfect Nikomat for $75, then a really clean late model F chrome body without a prism for $40, and .... it kind of snuck up on me.

Also, my local camera store is like a drug pusher ...

P.S. I did finally start clearing out my collection of lightly used camera gear that I did not use enough to justify owning. Look in the Classifieds here and you'll find a good deal on a nice Mamiya 645 system.... it's calling to you ... really, it is ...

madNbad · Oct 31, 2023

Here's a 50 S 2.0 on a Nikon F:

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madNbad · Oct 31, 2023

KerrKid said:
Gotcha. Thanks. I just didn't see the non-ai version on ebay while searching. I'll keep looking.

Yeh, the meter dance. I keep forgetting how that goes. Something about setting the f stop on the lens to 5.6 when mounting it and then turning the aperture ring one way and then the other.

Set the aperture ring to 5.6, mount the lens, turn it to maximum aperture then to minimum. Nikkormats are marked to show you if the correct aperture has been set.

madNbad · Oct 31, 2023

Here's a mid run silver nose 50 H 2.0 on a FT2 frankenmat. It was cobbled together out of three broken ones and painted OD green. It was fun but the meter tab wasn't smooth and the meter was jumpy:

chuckroast · Oct 31, 2023

mshchem said:
Putting the older lenses on a Nikon DSLR gives one an instant realization just how terrific these older lenses are.

The pro Ai-s lenses that ran concurrent with the F3 are as good as anything sold today. IMHO.

Pretty much true, but there are exceptions, depending on what generation the Ai-S came from. Later model Ai-S had improved multicoating (which is not to say that the earlier ones were bad).

Also some lenses, were improved optically when they moved to autofocus, or so it is claimed. For example, the 35 f/1.4 Nikkor Ai-S is a beast of a lens with a nine bladed aperture mechanism capable of really fine photographs. But wide open, it displays a lot of coma, which is either a great creative control or really irritating. Supposedly, the AF version of this lens reformulated the lens design and mate it work far more cleanly than the Ai-S. I don't know, because I paid $200 for mine b/c it needed some gentle aperture ring cleaning and reassembly, and I see no reason to replace it.

In my book, any of the following lenses - whether in Ai or Ai-S are absolutely top drawer performers and you cannot go wrong with any of them:

20mm f/2.8
24mm f/2.8
35mm f/2.8
35mm f/1.4 (prefer the Ai-S here for the 9 bladed aperture)
50mm f/1.4
85mm f/1.4
105mm f/2.5
180mm f.2.8

I own all of these other than the 35mm f/2.8 which I sold to buy the 35mm f/1.4. They all are terrific
shooters.

For the most part, I'd avoid the old Nikon zooms because they were ..... not good. Modern lens design came lightyears because of cheap computing to make the calculations feasible for complex zoom arrangements. But the Ai/Ai-S primes are just great.

(But I still shoot way more MF and LF cuz ... their ain't no substituted for square inches of negative.)

Nikkormat FTn lens advice needed.

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