Nice One, ANDYYYYYY!

[Andrew O'Neill]

I just ordered Sodium Metaborate, then noticed I have two rather large bottles of Kodalk sitting on my shelf...

 

[MattKing]

My wife refers to it as "back stock"

 

[John Wiegerink]

A man can never have too much Sodium Metaborate! Same goes for Sodium Sulfite. Don't feel bad Andy, I thought I was almost out of Rodinal, so I ordered a new bottle about a month ago. Two weeks ago I found a brand-new bottle, well unused bottle anyway, at my cottage. I don't use it often, so I'd say I have more than a lifetime supply now. If I could kick myself in the rear, I would have. Good thing it has a long shelf life.

 

[Daniela]

I've done the same with supplies before and it's in part due to my ridiculous inability to keep things organized. And this only happens with art supplies...sometimes, I spend more time looking for something than using it...

 

[relistan]

I have an accidental lifetime supply of potassium bromide now.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've done the same with supplies before and it's in part due to my ridiculous inability to keep things organized. And this only happens with art supplies...sometimes, I spend more time looking for something than using it...

We are very similar!

 

[gordrob]

I have an accidental lifetime supply of potassium bromide now.

I found myself in the same place. A friend dropped off his darkroom chemistry to me when he shut his darkroom down and there about 20lbs of Potassium Bromide among it. Haven't put a dent in the first jar yet.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I found myself in the same place. A friend dropped off his darkroom chemistry to me when he shut his darkroom down and there about 20lbs of Potassium Bromide among it. Haven't put a dent in the first jar yet.

I have that with Andy's Kodalk(Sodium Metaborate). A good friend of mine got kicked out of his girlfriend's house a few years back and moved to Alaska. She contacted me and wanted to know if I wanted all his leftover photo chemicals. Being a confessed photo equipment hoarder, I picked it all up. I now have a half full cardboard drum from Kodak with about 20+lbs of Kodalk in it. Should last me a year or two.

 

[KerrKid]

I hope to have these problems in the future. It would mean I'm developing my own film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I just ordered Sodium Metaborate, then noticed I have two rather large bottles of Kodalk sitting on my shelf...

Thank you for keeping the Sodium Metaborate from the hoarders.

 

[grat]

Given that I just saw an Epson v800 (a $900 scanner when new, two years ago) listed on eBay for $2000 USD, perhaps you should sell one on eBay as "classic film developing chemicals"-- and buy a Leica with the profits.

 

[braxus]

Andy. What is it even used for? I know you like to mix your own brews, but I have no idea what it is.

 

[albada]

Andy. What is it even used for? I know you like to mix your own brews, but I have no idea what it is.

I'm not Andy, but I'll answer anyway.
Almost all developers for both film and paper are alkaline (not acidic). So they need an alkali, and sodium metaborate is popular in film developers. Kodak liked it so much that they named it "Kodalk".

Mark

 

[Chuck_P]

Given that I just saw an Epson v800 (a $900 scanner when new, two years ago) listed on eBay for $2000 USD, perhaps you should sell one on eBay as "classic film developing chemicals"-- and buy a Leica with the profits.

Since my efforts to reignite my darkroom after some years of inactivity, I've been on ebay a lot lately looking around....... Yes, "vintage", "rare", and "classic are being used ad nauseam.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andy. What is it even used for? I know you like to mix your own brews, but I have no idea what it is.

What albada said. I usually use it for 2-bath developers, such as Thornton's. Also playing around with D-23 with slightly reduced Sulfite, and a wee bit of Sodium Metaborate. Why not? I've accumulated many chemicals over the years, and mixing up developers is heaps cheaper and fun!

 

[MattKing]

For clarity, almost all developers require an alkaline environment to function properly. The actual developing agents (e.g. ascorbic acid) may not establish an alkaline environment themselves, so you use something like Sodium Metaborate to do so, or at least to adjust the alkalinity/acidity (pH) to what you desire.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's interesting that D-23 containing Metol and Sodium Sulfite (in slightly more quantities than Thornton's 2-Bath), one is able to fully develop film, whereas in Thornton's an image is faintly rendered in Bath A, coming out fully in Bath B (Sodium Metaborate). I guess that extra gram of Metol and more Sulfite in D-23, is the difference.

 

[braxus]

And what kind of image results or differences would you see using this? Or is it used just to even get an image?

 

[albada]

And what kind of image results or differences would you see using this? Or is it used just to even get an image?

That depends on how much sodium sulfite is in the developer. With ample sulfite, removing metaborate might make the neg thinner (i.e., need to develop longer). For example, D-23 (mentioned above) has plenty of sulfite and no other alkali (like metaborate), and it does fine. But with little/no sulfite, the pH would drop too low and you'll probably get no image.

@Andrew O'Neill, @relistan, myself, and others enjoy mixing and experimenting with our own developers. It's easy and cheap. If you're interested in this, I suggest buying The Film Developing Cookbook to learn what chemicals are available, what they do, and plenty of formulas to try.

Mark

 

[relistan]

I second what @albada said.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

That depends on how much sodium sulfite is in the developer. With ample sulfite, removing metaborate might make the neg thinner (i.e., need to develop longer). For example, D-23 (mentioned above) has plenty of sulfite and no other alkali (like metaborate), and it does fine. But with little/no sulfite, the pH would drop too low and you'll probably get no image.

@Andrew O'Neill, @relistan, myself, and others enjoy mixing and experimenting with our own developers. It's easy and cheap. If you're interested in this, I suggest buying The Film Developing Cookbook to learn what chemicals are available, what they do, and plenty of formulas to try.

Mark

I've owned a copy for years. I've also been mixing my own since 1990's. I first mixed up my own fixer while reading Adams', The Negative way back in '92.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I second what @albada said.

I'll 3rd what Mark and Karl said above.

 

[Donald Qualls]

It's interesting that D-23 containing Metol and Sodium Sulfite (in slightly more quantities than Thornton's 2-Bath), one is able to fully develop film, whereas in Thornton's an image is faintly rendered in Bath A,

I think I'm safe in guessing that standard developing time for D-23 for any given film will be much longer than the three or four minutes in Bath A of a two-bath developer...

 

[BradS]

I think I'm safe in guessing that standard developing time for D-23 for any given film will be much longer than the three or four minutes in Bath A of a two-bath developer...

Yes. Absolutely. Usually, it is closer to the time listed for D76(1+1)

 

[gorbas]

whereas in Thornton's an image is faintly rendered in Bath A

With 4 or 5 min in just Bath A my "test' developed very nicely, a bit thinner than with B part, but totally usable.
Actually, after a few rolls in full A+B process, you can nicely develop film in just bath B too. Yes, I was thinking WTF-That is imossible and then I tried it. It works. So I start using single use bath B.