News from the "analog revival"

[flavio81]

My full spectrum, frequency-modulated optical analog format can provide an exact copy of a studio or location feed.

Well, that's what Philips already got in 1978 before deciding to use digital audio for their laser disc.

 

[flavio81]

Even the best care and the use of the finest record deck and pickup can, sadly, only delay inevitable wear. And then there are the occasional, unfortunate, and apparently unavoidable accidents....

AES (Audio Engineering Society) papers from the late 60s, with tests and electron microscope pictures, show that records can easily withstand more than 1000 plays with little to none playback degradation. And this is with playback styli with higher effective mass and less contact area (= higher pressure on the record) than the better technology that appeared in the 70s and 80s.

Playing dirty records and/or using pickup cartridges having too high effective mas (read: cheap, crappy turntables) do cause wear, sometimes pretty quickly. A worn stylus can also quickly ruin a record.

All of this, of course, assumes good quality record compounds. There are records pressed with really crappy record compounds and I do have some of those. They get "sandy", hissing background noise, and crackle&pop very easily after a few plays.

 

[flavio81]

Last year I read the news that even Sony, who was the first major force in the 80ies abandoning vinyl and switching to CDs, is planning building a complete new factory for vinyl record production. That's a statement.
.

A few years ago (5 or less), ALL the record production plants worldwide were completely booked, so much that if you wanted to press a record you would be likely put in a waiting list. Think about it for a second!!

Recently, there were only two factories in the world that produced the blank lacquer discs required for vinyl mastering. One of them (TRANSCO) was burned down in a fire this year. Within the same week, there was talks of enough business interest to open a new factory, because the other factory (MDC, japan) immediately announced not being able to cope with the demand.

 

[Henning Serger]

Thank you henning!!
Fuji also just bought out a new square format instead camera...

Yes, Peter, they did.
Fujifilm instax has already been a high-volume mass market for several years. Increasing demand every year from 2004 to 2019. Fujifilm estimates the market size of their system of about 40 million users worldwide. My personal assessment is more conservative with about 30-35 million global (regular) users. But nevertheless it remains a huge mass market.
In their 2018/19 fiscal year more than 10 million instax cameras were sold.

And we should remember: About 12-15 years ago lots of people believed that "instant film will be the first film type which will die completely".
And now the instant camera sales (Polaroid has also increasing demand) are even surpassing the sales of digital ILC cameras, and digital compact cameras.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Thanks, Henning. It's always nice to read positive news from someone who's actually on the front lines.

You're welcome, Stephen.
Thanks for the kind words.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

My "fear" that film rise is a bubble that will burst.

I am quite relaxed in this regard, because it isn't a bubble. It is more a return to a normal, stable market situation. Markets often tend to exaggerate / overact after paradigma changes. The shift from film as the main mass market photo medium to digital as the main mass market photo medium was such a paradigma change, and has also led to a temporarily digital bubble, with market highs / peaks in 2010 (digital compact cameras) and 2012 (ILC cameras). Since then the digital camera sales are on a very strong decline (volume has shrunk more than 90%) as the markets are meanwhile completely oversaturated. The peak in digital as a "positive overshooting" was accompanied by a "negative overshooting" for film. Meanwhile the "positive overshooting bubble" in digital has burst, and the "negative overshooting bubble" in film has also started to burst. Both markets are normalising again, coming closer to their future long term demand levels and balance.

Human being are individuals, with very different interests, thoughts and needs. There are no "one fits all" solutions for them. Therefore digital imaging will never be the only, exclusive photographic option for all photographers. A certain percentage will prefer film because film offers what they want. This percentage is meanwhile increasing again.
Lots of new, young users, but this age group is not exclusively driving the momentum. There are also lots of middle-aged photographers who have intensively used digital in the last 10-15 years, which are now using and enjoying film again. I am also doing workshops for several years, and I see these experienced photographers coming back to film a lot in my workshops. When I am analysing demand developments with labs and distributors they report the same.

Yes, you are correct. It doesn't count what medium you are using, film or digital.

Well, that is not what I have written. Film and digital are physically completely different photographic mediums, the photos are generated in a completely different way, with very different results and workflows. For me personally these differences are very important for my work and enjoyment, and for lots of others, too.
That is why I meanwhile prefer film for about 95% of my personal photographic work. It is the best tool for most of my photo projects. And I have much more fun by using film.
It's a personal choice based on several decades doing photography.
And I am convinced it is a very good situation that because of the film revival also future generations will have this choice, this option of having more than just one way to take photographs. It is very good for photography in general having different artistic choices to create your pictures.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Vinyl is rarely used as a source of commercial mastering.

What is and how do they do it?

 

[George Mann]

Well, that's what Philips already got in 1978 before deciding to use digital audio for their laser disc.

Yes, my design, which was made public in December '74.

The screwjob came with the decision to back only one format, redhook cd.

 

[George Mann]

What is and how do they do it?

Tape is the usual source. How they do it is more complicated then I have time to explain right now.

There should be a detailed explanation or two on the internet somewhere.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Doesn't it also mean they cleaned up the sound, the scratches, etc that you might hear from a vinyl?

Rarely done from vinyl, almost always from wide tapes.

 

[fiddle]

Doesn't it also mean they cleaned up the sound, the scratches, etc that you might hear from a vinyl?

Recordings were usually made to a 2 inch tape, 24 tracks of audio (still made that way for some, but software has taken over for the most part), mixed down to a half inch tap, a stereo track. Then mastered off of that and duplicated onto the vinyl, cd, whatever. remastered either means they just remastered the stereo track, or some actually remix off the master 2 inch. Depends, ive seen both.

 

[MattKing]

Rarely done from vinyl, almost always from wide tapes.

The exception being music like very early blues and jazz, where the only extant copies are in the form of 78s or even wax cylinders.
More of interest to music historians than the listening public generally.
But there is some really interesting music out there on unusual media - anyone ever seen a US armed forces radio service record from WWII?
They are 16 inch, 33 1/3 LPs.

 

[Cholentpot]

AES (Audio Engineering Society) papers from the late 60s, with tests and electron microscope pictures, show that records can easily withstand more than 1000 plays with little to none playback degradation. And this is with playback styli with higher effective mass and less contact area (= higher pressure on the record) than the better technology that appeared in the 70s and 80s.

Playing dirty records and/or using pickup cartridges having too high effective mas (read: cheap, crappy turntables) do cause wear, sometimes pretty quickly. A worn stylus can also quickly ruin a record.

All of this, of course, assumes good quality record compounds. There are records pressed with really crappy record compounds and I do have some of those. They get "sandy", hissing background noise, and crackle&pop very easily after a few plays.

1000 plays for some is just a few years worth of play. And on a mid level turntable with an ok stylus.

I just learned to embrace the crackles and hissles and popples and everything is fine.

 

[flavio81]

Yes, my design, which was made public in December '74.

The screwjob came with the decision to back only one format, redhook cd.

Wait... you worked for Philips? wow...

I assume this was fm encoding of the audio? Was a compander used for noise reduction? What was the s/n before companding?

 

[George Mann]

Wait... you worked for Philips? wow...

I assume this was fm encoding of the audio? Was a compander used for noise reduction? What was the s/n before companding?

No, I was an independent inventor at the time.

 

[Henning Serger]

How many new shooters are developing themselves?

Fortunately quite a lot. And the number is significantly increasing. Self developing at home is becoming more and more popular.
That's the result of my market research. The data I've got from photo chemistry manufacturers, lab equipment manufacturers and big film/chemistry distributors is very clear. And every of these companies I've contacted reported significantly increasing demand.
That is also the reason why we've seen in the last years
- new photo chemistry from several manufacturers
- new lab equipment from several manufacturers
- new literature about that topic (books; reports in print magazines)
- lots of new video tutorials about that topic (the currently most popular video about C-41 home development has meanwhile more than 718,000 (!) views).

More and more photographers - including young ones and beginners - are realizing that
- you can get excellent results with your own processing
- it is very easy, C-41 and E6 included
- it is very cheap
- and it's lots of fun.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Mick Fagan]

In 2019, the last weekend of June it was the start of the winter school holidays, that weekend I had three people brand new to film photography in my darkroom. Normally I restrict the number to two people as the darkroom can get a bit crowded; it is approximately 3m by 3m. Their ages ranged between 16 and 17; late secondary school.

I always ask what they expect to learn, what they really would like to learn. These three astounded me, they more or less listed things they thought would be neat; their words. The last time I did something like this was four years ago and one of the two in that year knew a bit about things, while the other knew virtually zilch. I think that the current generation of young people have really become very interested in film photography in the last few years and they seem to be very aware of what is possible and what is happening film wise, among their artistic peers.

Over the next three months on weekends and on five occasions, we bulk loaded film, walked around and exposed their films while learning about hand held and in camera light meters. They mixed B&W developer from scratch and store bought products. We developed the films in their tanks and my tanks. Contact printing and, after a very big weekend of enlarging some of their frames, they then scanned their negatives using their own equipment and mainly sending files out, to obtain electronic prints.

All of the above items listed, were on their list of things they wished to achieve. We did all of that and some more. An interesting note, was that all three were over the moon with regard to what they achieved from enlarging their negatives. They all agreed that it was harder, more time consuming and so easy to make mistakes using an enlarger instead of sending to an inkjet printer. But the satisfaction level was 10 out of 10. I know they let their peers know about their achievements and thereby expanding the base of young peoples film photographic knowledge

Since then, one has gone on to converting her parents laundry into a workable darkroom, another has decided B&W printing is alright but there isn't enough time for him to do that. The third is using quite a lot of film and finding her niche in photography, she has worked out the cheapest way to purchase film, the cheapest way to develop film, then scans her negs and has a growing array of cameras and is now looking at 4x5" as the way ahead for her architectural fascination.

An option I gave them, that none requested and I don't think was really known by any of them; was to have one weekend session purely on 4x5" cameras and film, with a studio camera and a wooden folder. Of the two that undertook the 4x5" weekend, one has seriously started to get into it.

As a side note, two of the mothers were at each session which started around 09:30, around 12:00 we all had lunch on the back verandah which was supplied by the mothers as payment for the sessions. Things wrapped up around 15:00, the first day was fine, but during discussions over lunch on the second day and having a 4x5" camera being disassembled then reassembled and all and sundry fiddling with it; it started to become obvious that the two mothers were quite intrigued by the simplicity of the 4x5" cameras and what they could do. To that end, one of the mothers and her daughter decided to acquire a 4x5" wooden folder; they haven't looked back.

Mick.

 

[awty]

In 2019, the last weekend of June it was the start of the winter school holidays, that weekend I had three people brand new to film photography in my darkroom. Normally I restrict the number to two people as the darkroom can get a bit crowded; it is approximately 3m by 3m. Their ages ranged between 16 and 17; late secondary school.

I always ask what they expect to learn, what they really would like to learn. These three astounded me, they more or less listed things they thought would be neat; their words. The last time I did something like this was four years ago and one of the two in that year knew a bit about things, while the other knew virtually zilch. I think that the current generation of young people have really become very interested in film photography in the last few years and they seem to be very aware of what is possible and what is happening film wise, among their artistic peers.

Over the next three months on weekends and on five occasions, we bulk loaded film, walked around and exposed their films while learning about hand held and in camera light meters. They mixed B&W developer from scratch and store bought products. We developed the films in their tanks and my tanks. Contact printing and, after a very big weekend of enlarging some of their frames, they then scanned their negatives using their own equipment and mainly sending files out, to obtain electronic prints.

All of the above items listed, were on their list of things they wished to achieve. We did all of that and some more. An interesting note, was that all three were over the moon with regard to what they achieved from enlarging their negatives. They all agreed that it was harder, more time consuming and so easy to make mistakes using an enlarger instead of sending to an inkjet printer. But the satisfaction level was 10 out of 10. I know they let their peers know about their achievements and thereby expanding the base of young peoples film photographic knowledge

Since then, one has gone on to converting her parents laundry into a workable darkroom, another has decided B&W printing is alright but there isn't enough time for him to do that. The third is using quite a lot of film and finding her niche in photography, she has worked out the cheapest way to purchase film, the cheapest way to develop film, then scans her negs and has a growing array of cameras and is now looking at 4x5" as the way ahead for her architectural fascination.

An option I gave them, that none requested and I don't think was really known by any of them; was to have one weekend session purely on 4x5" cameras and film, with a studio camera and a wooden folder. Of the two that undertook the 4x5" weekend, one has seriously started to get into it.

As a side note, two of the mothers were at each session which started around 09:30, around 12:00 we all had lunch on the back verandah which was supplied by the mothers as payment for the sessions. Things wrapped up around 15:00, the first day was fine, but during discussions over lunch on the second day and having a 4x5" camera being disassembled then reassembled and all and sundry fiddling with it; it started to become obvious that the two mothers were quite intrigued by the simplicity of the 4x5" cameras and what they could do. To that end, one of the mothers and her daughter decided to acquire a 4x5" wooden folder; they haven't looked back.

Mick.

Thats great Mick. I regularly see film photographers in and around Brisbane, all of which are in their late teens early twenties. Have seen one with a 4x5 shooting positive film, couple with medium format, but most with 35mm. At a recent BLM rally saw 6 or seven young film photographers. When ever I speak with them they are all very enthusiastic about it, wonderful to see.

 

[Agulliver]

Anecdotes only, but the three camera shops I've visited recently in the East of England all say the same thing....they're selling as much film as they can order in, and would sell more if they could order more. This is especially true of Kodak Color Plus and Fuji Superia in 35mm and Fuji 400H in 120. B&W films from Ilford are selling well but supply meets demand. There is a small but tangible demand from these "brick and mortar" shops for Ektachrome and for the Lomography 800 ISO CN film. Sales of film and indeed photographic paper are continuing to rise despite everything. The inability to source sufficient quantities of Color Plus is beginning to anger at least one shop owner...while my friend at Luton Camera Repairs merely sighs that she could sell a lot more if she could get hold of it.

Regarding the longevity of analogue media....I am 47 and still have the first LP I ever asked my parents to buy for me. Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds which I was bought for Christmas 1978 or 1979, we're not quite sure. Either way I've had it over 40 years, from childhood to middle age. It's never been played on anything truly bad, a Garrard 2025-based machine being the worst. Goodness knows how many times I've played it. A few hundred. Still sounds like new, spectrum analysis shows musical information up to about 25kHz. I have older records, as I began collecting seriously in the late 80s....one can tell which tape recorders were used sometimes by spectrum analysis....one London recording studio in the early 70s had a machine with ultrasonic hiss at 33.2kHz....still there, the stylus picking it up and my software detecting it even if my ears don't. Even if one treats a record poorly, it will play. Though with basic care they are wondrous things. Don't use one of those Crosley type machines with the plastic red cartridge and you're probably fine.

Magnetic tape, so often we are warned about doom and gloom...that it only lasts 30 years. Hmm...tell that to the chap who recently read all the data off NASA's Apollo-era data tapes. Or tell me, with my stash of 1950s reels which sound like the day they were recorded (as far as I can tell)....and my own cassettes from 1980 onwards. I even have reel to reel video tapes (launch of Voyager 2 is one, giving an idea of age) which play well - though with some dropouts. Domestic VT technology in the 70s was far from perfect. But they play.

The vinyl comeback has been quite spectacular. In 1991 when I last bought a turntable, people told me I was mad. Best money I ever spent...it's still the centrepiece of my home entertainment system and I could not buy anything better today without laying out several thousand. It's predecessor now lives in my office and *it's* predecessor (the aforementioned Garrard) I restored a few years ago and gave to someone special....where I still get to see and listen to it regularly. That's some longevity there the Garrard is 53 years old...but the fact is 30 years ago I was mad for buying a turntable. Today it's the envy of friends, and I can walk into the freakin' supermarket and buy vinyl records....my childhood record shop where War Of The Worlds was purchased for me and where I built up most of my collection in the 80s and 90s is still going strong, selling more vinyl than CDs. If film can sustain it's own resurgence, there is no reason why it cannot match the vinyl revival given a few more years. It is entirely possibly that we'll be able once again to pick up some film with our Queen's Greatest Hits record and groceries.

 

[Henning Serger]

In 2019, the last weekend of June it was the start of the winter school holidays, that weekend I had three people brand new to film photography in my darkroom. Normally I restrict the number to two people as the darkroom can get a bit crowded; it is approximately 3m by 3m. Their ages ranged between 16 and 17; late secondary school.

I always ask what they expect to learn, what they really would like to learn. These three astounded me, they more or less listed things they thought would be neat; their words. The last time I did something like this was four years ago and one of the two in that year knew a bit about things, while the other knew virtually zilch. I think that the current generation of young people have really become very interested in film photography in the last few years and they seem to be very aware of what is possible and what is happening film wise, among their artistic peers.

Over the next three months on weekends and on five occasions, we bulk loaded film, walked around and exposed their films while learning about hand held and in camera light meters. They mixed B&W developer from scratch and store bought products. We developed the films in their tanks and my tanks. Contact printing and, after a very big weekend of enlarging some of their frames, they then scanned their negatives using their own equipment and mainly sending files out, to obtain electronic prints.

All of the above items listed, were on their list of things they wished to achieve. We did all of that and some more. An interesting note, was that all three were over the moon with regard to what they achieved from enlarging their negatives. They all agreed that it was harder, more time consuming and so easy to make mistakes using an enlarger instead of sending to an inkjet printer. But the satisfaction level was 10 out of 10. I know they let their peers know about their achievements and thereby expanding the base of young peoples film photographic knowledge

Since then, one has gone on to converting her parents laundry into a workable darkroom, another has decided B&W printing is alright but there isn't enough time for him to do that. The third is using quite a lot of film and finding her niche in photography, she has worked out the cheapest way to purchase film, the cheapest way to develop film, then scans her negs and has a growing array of cameras and is now looking at 4x5" as the way ahead for her architectural fascination.

An option I gave them, that none requested and I don't think was really known by any of them; was to have one weekend session purely on 4x5" cameras and film, with a studio camera and a wooden folder. Of the two that undertook the 4x5" weekend, one has seriously started to get into it.

As a side note, two of the mothers were at each session which started around 09:30, around 12:00 we all had lunch on the back verandah which was supplied by the mothers as payment for the sessions. Things wrapped up around 15:00, the first day was fine, but during discussions over lunch on the second day and having a 4x5" camera being disassembled then reassembled and all and sundry fiddling with it; it started to become obvious that the two mothers were quite intrigued by the simplicity of the 4x5" cameras and what they could do. To that end, one of the mothers and her daughter decided to acquire a 4x5" wooden folder; they haven't looked back.

Mick.

Thanks for the report, Mick! Great job, congrats!
Some weeks ago I've had a 21 year old student in my lab, demonstrating her the whole enlarging process. She really liked it and has interest to do it again.
I am currently working together with a good friend to rebuild a public darkroom for workshops on a broader basis.

Best regards and keep on with the good work,
Henning

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

More and more photographers - including young ones and beginners - are realizing that
- you can get excellent results with your own processing
- it is very easy, C-41 and E6 included
- it is very cheap
- and it's lots of fun.

With the "soon-to-come ADOX SCALA BW reversal kit", the joy of doing own processing is likely to double. There's something very magical about B&W slides and I find many uninitiated getting curious about film photography after seeing the slides. What is needed is a easy to use and reliable reversal kit that works well with a variety of films. I hope Adox's kit is not designed to work well only with specific Adox films.

 

[Cholentpot]

In 2019, the last weekend of June it was the start of the winter school holidays, that weekend I had three people brand new to film photography in my darkroom. Normally I restrict the number to two people as the darkroom can get a bit crowded; it is approximately 3m by 3m. Their ages ranged between 16 and 17; late secondary school.

I always ask what they expect to learn, what they really would like to learn. These three astounded me, they more or less listed things they thought would be neat; their words. The last time I did something like this was four years ago and one of the two in that year knew a bit about things, while the other knew virtually zilch. I think that the current generation of young people have really become very interested in film photography in the last few years and they seem to be very aware of what is possible and what is happening film wise, among their artistic peers.

Over the next three months on weekends and on five occasions, we bulk loaded film, walked around and exposed their films while learning about hand held and in camera light meters. They mixed B&W developer from scratch and store bought products. We developed the films in their tanks and my tanks. Contact printing and, after a very big weekend of enlarging some of their frames, they then scanned their negatives using their own equipment and mainly sending files out, to obtain electronic prints.

All of the above items listed, were on their list of things they wished to achieve. We did all of that and some more. An interesting note, was that all three were over the moon with regard to what they achieved from enlarging their negatives. They all agreed that it was harder, more time consuming and so easy to make mistakes using an enlarger instead of sending to an inkjet printer. But the satisfaction level was 10 out of 10. I know they let their peers know about their achievements and thereby expanding the base of young peoples film photographic knowledge

Since then, one has gone on to converting her parents laundry into a workable darkroom, another has decided B&W printing is alright but there isn't enough time for him to do that. The third is using quite a lot of film and finding her niche in photography, she has worked out the cheapest way to purchase film, the cheapest way to develop film, then scans her negs and has a growing array of cameras and is now looking at 4x5" as the way ahead for her architectural fascination.

An option I gave them, that none requested and I don't think was really known by any of them; was to have one weekend session purely on 4x5" cameras and film, with a studio camera and a wooden folder. Of the two that undertook the 4x5" weekend, one has seriously started to get into it.

As a side note, two of the mothers were at each session which started around 09:30, around 12:00 we all had lunch on the back verandah which was supplied by the mothers as payment for the sessions. Things wrapped up around 15:00, the first day was fine, but during discussions over lunch on the second day and having a 4x5" camera being disassembled then reassembled and all and sundry fiddling with it; it started to become obvious that the two mothers were quite intrigued by the simplicity of the 4x5" cameras and what they could do. To that end, one of the mothers and her daughter decided to acquire a 4x5" wooden folder; they haven't looked back.

Mick.

I was one of those youngsters (well, slightly older) back in '12 when film had its massive crash. I was looked at as beyond crazy for starting photography out on a TLR.

 

[Team ADOX]

Anecdotes only, but the three camera shops I've visited recently in the East of England all say the same thing....they're selling as much film as they can order in, and would sell more if they could order more.

We can ensure you that your report is not "anecdotical". It is a development in almost all major markets. Some films cannot produced in high-enough volumes to satisfy demand. Also our colleagues from Fotoimpex are facing this challenge permanently: They cannot get enough shipments from the wholesalers for certain currently very popular films (mainly amateur color negative films). As soon as a new shipment comes in, it is immediately sold out again.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

 

[Cholentpot]

We can ensure you that your report is not "anecdotical". It is a development in almost all major markets. Some films cannot produced in high-enough volumes to satisfy demand. Also our colleagues from Fotoimpex are facing this challenge permanently: They cannot get enough shipments from the wholesalers for certain currently very popular films (mainly amateur color negative films). As soon as a new shipment comes in, it is immediately sold out again.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Kodak Color 200 is nowhere to be found.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

having spent almost 20 years with digital photography, I miss film less and less.

Hi Ralph, having spent almost 20 years with digital photography, I like film more and more!