News from the "analog revival"

[JWMster]

It's another absurdity. Where do you think the word "splice" came from? Ever see a splicing block? A device that, in combination with a single-edge razor blade, is used to put together different sections of tape? From different takes?"

Sal: Matter of fact I've worked splicing blocks. Made things called "movies". All the way back to high school. Please note that I am telling you what is said... not what I agree with or what I do... simply what the explanation is. And an explanation doesn't mean I swing there. I upgraded to CD's a hundred years ago. Now most of my music's on a drive somewhere on a disc or through my phone.

There's nothing more "authentic" about the talent of an "artist" whose performance was recorded via an analog medium than one captured using digitizing equipment. One can debate the adequacy of digital standards -- I personally discussed optimal audio sampling rate with Bob Fine, who'd concluded that at least 100k per second was necessary, at an Audio Engineering Society meeting many decades ago -- but claims about vinyl's inherent "superiority" are nonsense on their face.

Not a case I've ever made or am making here. Preaching to the choir on this. You're responding to an argument i'm not making. Sound quality has nothing to do with it. My point is that I hear from some as a one time classical guitarist that there are folks who doubt the performance-ability of some. Yes, they claim to hear the splices. They claim to hear all that. And what they claim to want to hear are the mistakes in the player's piece that "guarantee" an authentic recording. I get it. I'm not suggesting it is a recording technology issue so much as a recording aesthetic. But do I want to hear Glen Gould screw up? No, and neither do 99% of the folks out there.

But I have never missed the "pop", the "crack crack" etc. of a track.

 

[awty]

And not to mention how much room film cameras take up, cant even move in my studio for bloody cameras, why do they have to make them so BIG. Could just trade them all in for a single digital camera, or better still just use my phone. it has 5 cameras!!
And record players take up so much room I can only have 2 running at a time.
I want to get these two up and running again, but have no where to put them.

 

[GRHazelton]

Improper care and playback are to blame.

Even the best care and the use of the finest record deck and pickup can, sadly, only delay inevitable wear. And then there are the occasional, unfortunate, and apparently unavoidable accidents....

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Hmm what would be the recording medium

full spectrum, frequency-modulated optical analog format

 

[George Mann]

Hmm what would be the recording medium

An optical analog disc (think laserdisc).

 

[George Mann]

Even the best care and the use of the finest record deck and pickup can, sadly, only delay inevitable wear.

Which products do you consider to be the finest?

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Which products do you consider to be the finest?

What I've used since the late '70s.

 

[Angarian]

If someone 15 or 20 years ago would have told you that will happen, most would probably have reacted by considering him being totally crazy.......
Meanwhile there are again about 40 vinyl factories running globally (including new ones), and most of them have difficulties to keep up with demand.
The demand development in this area is very encouraging, as not only vinyl sales are strongly increasing for years, but also countless new turntables in different price regions from cheap to absolute high-end have been introduced.

Last year I read the news that even Sony, who was the first major force in the 80ies abandoning vinyl and switching to CDs, is planning building a complete new factory for vinyl record production. That's a statement.

This is an example that demonstrates one further time that
- strong revivals and trend changes are possible
and
- that such "revivals are more marathons than sprints".
All that cannot happen overnight.
Patience, endurance, very hard work and a mid to long term perspective is needed.

Agreed.

Independent from that I have got some news in the last days concerning several new products. I will probably be able to give more details in the coming days. Please stay tuned.

Looking forward to it .

 

[Angarian]

New, the vinyl revival looks like a fashion thing to me.

It isn't. Because this development back to vinyl is lasting for a very long time now. For example in the US sales hit the bottom back in 1993. Since then recovering of the market. In the first years at a slower speed with lower growth rates, and during the whole last decade with grwoth rates in the 20-30% p.a. range.

 

[Angarian]

How many new shooters are developing themselves?

Many. And an increasing number. At least that was told me independently by two of the biggest online retailers here in Europe. They also said that during the lock-down the demand has even accelerated. Looks like lots of new users have used the time at home to get the needed info and started doing it themselves. Interestingly the number of youtube videos about that topic increased as well.

Last time I talked with Kamerastore lab guys they said the most biggest boom group was young girls who wanted to post film style photos to instagram.

Talked about that with my local lab owner some weeks ago: He is seeing lots of new customers from all age groups, from young, middle age and older ones. His business has more than doubled in the last four years. He has bought new machines to keep up with demand.

 

[Angarian]

I am pretty sure that $200 million is not even close to what vinyl made in its heyday... less of a revival, but less dead than the competition?

Of course it is not on the same level it made in its heyday. That is neither to expect nor is it needed for a sustainable future.
By the way, the 230+ million figure is only for the first half year of the US market. The whole global annual market has a size of more than a billion.

 

[Dali]

It isn't. Because this development back to vinyl is lasting for a very long time now. For example in the US sales hit the bottom back in 1993. Since then recovering of the market. In the first years at a slower speed with lower growth rates, and during the whole last decade with grwoth rates in the 20-30% p.a. range.

It is, because vinyl use is not justify be convenience, why 99% of people are looking for. Look at the sales evolution by support along the years, it is significant.

 

[George Mann]

It is, because vinyl use is not justify be convenience, why 99% of people are looking for. Look at the sales evolution by support along the years, it is significant.

Vinyl is for serious listeners who have kept it alive and thriving. The masses are irrelevant!

 

[Steve Bellayr]

sold or donated many vinyls that i replaced with cds but still have 1600 vinyls years ago i purchased an unused new turntable for $10 & my neighbor gave to me hers in the future cds will not be re-issued but only available as downloads or special pressings some older cds are getting harder to find don't let me get started on all the film cameras and lenses i bought when digital came out [and some that i passed up] now cameras i would not buy are going higher in thrift stores higher than auction site

 

[Sirius Glass]

Vinyl is for serious listeners who have kept it alive and thriving. The masses are irrelevant!

By definition "the masses" are irrelevant, always.

 

[Dali]

Vinyl is for serious listeners who have kept it alive and thriving. The masses are irrelevant!

Fortunately for you, the masses are still there to fund the very industry who produce vinyl records. A little more modesty on your part would be appreciated.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Fortunately for you, the masses are still there to fund the very industry who produce vinyl records. A little more modesty on your part would be appreciated.

When you are right, there is no need for modesty nor humility. After all it has been said and it has been written, "Right is Might" or was it "Might is Right"? Whatever I don't need no stinkin' modesty, besides I gave up humility for Lent along with abstinence.

 

[George Mann]

Fortunately for you, the masses are still there to fund the very industry who produce vinyl records. A little more modesty on your part would be appreciated.

Your assumptions are faulty.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Your assumptions are faulty.

The hypothesis is also wrong and it is also just plain incorrect, not based on evidence, not based on facts either. More like based on what he had for breakfast.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hello,
this isn't directly photography related (at least the first part of this posting), but a bit in an indirect way, and independent from that, certainly generally interesting for some members:
The first half of 2020 was the first half year since the mid-eighties in which revenue from vinyl record sales in the US significantly surpassed sales revenue from CDs.
232.1 million $ from vinyl versus 129.9 million $ from CD sales. Source:
https://www.riaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Mid-Year-2020-RIAA-Revenue-Statistics.pdf
If someone 15 or 20 years ago would have told you that will happen, most would probably have reacted by considering him being totally crazy.......
Meanwhile there are again about 40 vinyl factories running globally (including new ones), and most of them have difficulties to keep up with demand.
The demand development in this area is very encouraging, as not only vinyl sales are strongly increasing for years, but also countless new turntables in different price regions from cheap to absolute high-end have been introduced.

This is an example that demonstrates one further time that
- strong revivals and trend changes are possible
and
- that such "revivals are more marathons than sprints".
All that cannot happen overnight.
Patience, endurance, very hard work and a mid to long term perspective is needed.

As some of you may know, part of my job is also market and technology analysis, including the photo market. I have designed some analysing tools and methods by myself. So far they are working very well, all my forecasts have been right.
One result of my analysis has been that we will see a film revival. Exactly that has happened in the last years. But we are still in the start phase. There is more to come.
But this development will take its time. It is a process of many further years. Some film photographers are quite impatient and think that a market could be rebuilt in only a few years. But that is unrealistic, it takes more time (see the vinyl example).
Being more realistic, more relaxed and having more patience and a long-term perspective is helpful, I think. It reduces stress and dissappointment, and it increases the joy we have with film photography.
Just today I finished another analysis for one of my clients in the film photo industry. A market and product analysis for a product group that would be a huge step for that company and would have very positive effects for the whole film photography scene. An analysis based on market developments of the next 15 years, because essential long-term investments are needed for such products. That again made me realize how important it is to also have a look on the longer perspective (and motivated me to share parts of my assessment with you in this post).

Independent from that I have got some news in the last days concerning several new products. I will probably be able to give more details in the coming days. Please stay tuned.

All the best to you,
and
long live film .

Henning

Photography is not about megapixels, dynamic range, frames per second or specification sheets.
It is all about light, composition, memories, stories, creativity and the enjoyment of making pictures.

having spent almost 20 years with digital photography, I miss film less and less.

 

[George Mann]

having spent almost 20 years with digital photography, I miss film less and less.

I have never been able to "get on" with digital, whether audio, video or photography.

It just never looks or sounds right, and the convenience of it has never been enough.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

When I moved to New Jersey 7 years ago, I ran into a store that bought old vinyl records and CD's. So I gathered up all my CD's (my records were long gone) and brought them down to the store. About 50 or 75. The manager went through all of them, one by one making two piles. What was more insulting than being offered 50 cents for each CD, or $1 for a two CD set, was the fact he returned about twenty to me offering nothing. He didn't even want them. So I walked out of the store with twenty some odd dollars and a bunch of CD's that no one including me wanted any more. So I dumped them in the garbage.

SIde question. What does Digitally Mastered mean when they advertise on TV?

 

[George Mann]

SIde question. What does Digitally Mastered mean when they advertise on TV?

It's just an engineering term indicating the that it has been (re)mixed and converted to digital.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It's just an engineering term indicating the that it has been (re)mixed and converted to digital.

Doesn't it also mean they cleaned up the sound, the scratches, etc that you might hear from a vinyl?

 

[George Mann]

Doesn't it also mean they cleaned up the sound, the scratches, etc that you might hear from a vinyl?

Vinyl is rarely used as a source of commercial mastering.