New to Rangefinders - Zorki Advice

E. von Hoegh · Dec 13, 2013

Lamar said:
Scans from the Zorki-3C with the Jupiter-8. Kodak Tri-X 400 developed in XTOL.

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And the only thing that bothers me about this camera is the film offset. The 4 wasn't too bad but the film is really offset in the 3C. q_x, i believe you mentioned the older ones were worse about this. I have seen it first hand now.

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Looks like the contrast issue is resolved!

As for the film offset, I think this is an issue of different dimensions of modern film cannister vs original reloadable cassettes; at least it is in the Canon I have. I solved it temporarily by making a ~.5mm flexible plastic washer to go between the bottom of the (Kodak) film spool and the recess in which it sits on the camera's baseplate. You camera is obviously a bit different.

q_x · Dec 13, 2013

I certainly can't see any small washer, so if it's there, it was well hidden
Glad it helped!

Lamar · Dec 13, 2013

I actually stuck a bit of fuzzy side velcro cut into the shape of a washer to the film back locking lug on the film canister side to make sure it stays pushed up. Hope it works.....

E. von Hoegh · Dec 13, 2013

Lamar said:
I actually stuck a bit of fuzzy side velcro cut into the shape of a washer to the film back locking lug on the film canister side to make sure it stays pushed up. Hope it works.....

That's essentially what I did, except I used a disc of plastic cut from a yogurt container. Eventually, I would like to get a set of the correct reloadable casettes (anyone out ther know for certain if the Canon II series will accept Leica casettes? I get mixed info from the 'net) and bulk load B&W film. For commercial cannisters, I'll make a couple delrin or maybe brass/aluminum cups to snap onto the botton of the film spool.

Lamar · Dec 16, 2013

I just developed my film from the 3C after pulling the washers. It's much better now, no more angle and its better aligned, barely touching the holes now, if at all. That washer trick made the difference. Thanks for the tips again q_z, and E. von!!

q_x · Dec 16, 2013

I'm glad to be of some use, Lamar!

I'll try to remember to post results in this thread with an original Russian reloadable canister in a month or two. It's dimensions differ indeed, but IIRC it's 1.3mm taller, not smaller... Now it's in a camera, hope it won't jam, as it often happens in bottom-loaded Zorkis. I hope to shoot it all tomorrow (good weather, so I'm heading out for whole day), but to develop it, it's whole different mess. Lot's of hoping, but it's hardly any plan.

Also on the very same roll, there's a test of the I-61 L/D after removing the fungus, so I guess I'll see how much better it'll work, if at all.

How's your framing on the second roll?

E. von Hoegh · Dec 16, 2013

Lamar said:
I just developed my film from the 3C after pulling the washers. It's much better now, no more angle and its better aligned, barely touching the holes now, if at all. That washer trick made the difference. Thanks for the tips again q_z, and E. von!!

Hey Lamar, you know if you get a collapsible Industar, you'll be able to put that 3c in a jacket's breast pocket.Then to balance things you put the Weston and a couple rolls of film in the other pocket... Just sayin...

Lamar · Dec 16, 2013

Good luck on your shooting tomorrow, sounds like it will be a good day. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the reloadable canister. My framing is better if I pay attention and don't shoot too fast. Sometimes I think I have framed good but if I move my eye around a bit I see I haven't properly framed. I have to take a more systematic framing approach with these cameras and make myself find the edges of the frame. I'm so used to SLR's, this is different.

Here is a full size 4000 dpi un-modified scan from the Zorki-3C/Jupiter-8 using VueScan. No sharpening, Light Grain Reduction, Light IR Clean. You can see the frame offset is much better now. Film = Fuji Superia X-tra 400 developed in Tetenal Press Kit

q_x said:
I'm glad to be of some use, Lamar!

I'll try to remember to post results in this thread with an original Russian reloadable canister in a month or two. It's dimensions differ indeed, but IIRC it's 1.3mm taller, not smaller... Now it's in a camera, hope it won't jam, as it often happens in bottom-loaded Zorkis. I hope to shoot it all tomorrow (good weather, so I'm heading out for whole day), but to develop it, it's whole different mess. Lot's of hoping, but it's hardly any plan.

Also on the very same roll, there's a test of the I-61 L/D after removing the fungus, so I guess I'll see how much better it'll work, if at all.

How's your framing on the second roll?

Lamar · Dec 16, 2013

Yeah, I've noticed those. Mainly attached to older bodies but some for sale by themselves. Are they any good optically? I'm pretty impressed so far with the Jupiter 8.

E. von Hoegh said:
Hey Lamar, you know if you get a collapsible Industar, you'll be able to put that 3c in a jacket's breast pocket.Then to balance things you put the Weston and a couple rolls of film in the other pocket... Just sayin...

E. von Hoegh · Dec 17, 2013

Lamar said:
Yeah, I've noticed those. Mainly attached to older bodies but some for sale by themselves. Are they any good optically? I'm pretty impressed so far with the Jupiter 8.

They're a Tessar, they are not a copy of the Leitz Elmar (except for the mount) as many claim. There were several versions, the latest being the I-50 which is also available as the I-50-2 in M42 mount - same optically. From what I can glean off the web, they can be very good There is also an F2.8 Tessar, two versions in rigid bbl, the I-26 and the I-61 which was also made with lanthanum glass as the I-61LD. Some say all I-61s have the rare earth glass, but either way the -61 is regarded as a good lens with high contrast. The I-50 appeals to me for the above reasons, I'm looking for one right now.
You have two J-8s, correct? I haven't been able to use mine as much as I would like due to my one screwmount body needing new curtains, but the few frames I have looked at from the lens indicate it's a definite keeper, very sharp and good contast.

q_x · Dec 17, 2013

I'd say one won't buy a lens from 50-s or 60-s for sharp, contrasty results. Optically, well, just look at any resolution comparison or samples over the net. Not stunning, but some pieces are not bad either. Having I-22 and I-61 at hand, I was out today with my J8. Other two are a waste of time, inferior samples. I was hoping to quit SLRs entirely one day, but with what I have now it's still impossible.

There were also two periods in production, the change was somewhere around 1952 IIRC. Before that each lens/body pair was matched separately, later they've introduced 28.8mm standard. If you don't want to fiddle with spacers, keep that in mind. It mostly is the case of older Industars (11, 22) and FED lens.

I've found, that big, colorful lens cap helps, I use milk bottle cap. I was always taking it off with I-22. Not so with a black lens cap...

E. von Hoegh · Dec 18, 2013

q_x said:
I'd say one won't buy a lens from 50-s or 60-s for sharp, contrasty results. Optically, well, just look at any resolution comparison or samples over the net. Not stunning, but some pieces are not bad either. Having I-22 and I-61 at hand, I was out today with my J8. Other two are a waste of time, inferior samples. I was hoping to quit SLRs entirely one day, but with what I have now it's still impossible.

There were also two periods in production, the change was somewhere around 1952 IIRC. Before that each lens/body pair was matched separately, later they've introduced 28.8mm standard. If you don't want to fiddle with spacers, keep that in mind. It mostly is the case of older Industars (11, 22) and FED lens.

I've found, that big, colorful lens cap helps, I use milk bottle cap. I was always taking it off with I-22. Not so with a black lens cap...

Is this an actual problem with the lenses, or is it a haze/cleaning issue? I've looked at scans of film (once again, internet...), center and corner crops that are quite good from the I-50 collapsibles.

q_x · Dec 18, 2013

I've already cleaned the fungus from I-61. I've done some test photos, but I want to make at least 5 rolls to process it all at one go. We have not much of a good light at this time of year, so it's going slowly.

I-22 looks dusty on the inside, and that's it, nothing more. I doubt if it's harmful amount of dust. Optically it's more or less what I'd expect from a cheap lens in Smena, doesn't really amazes me in any way, and the photos are a bit dull in terms of details. Certainly not stellar things I've seen Industars to be capable of. I have rigid industar 50 in a Zenit 3M, but it's a souvenir, not a camera to take photos with, so it stays enclosed.

J8 is considerably better optically, gives me greater flexibility, being soft wide open and getting sharper with every fstop. Also, 40.5mm filters are commonly available, unlike I-22 slip-on or screw in.

I thought I can show some photos - with I22 I've done quite some. A word of introduction is needed though. Polypan F is a film without AH layer, and I like the slightly magical thing it does sometimes. It has more sense with landscapes. My scanner doesn't really work and I can't wait to buy some paper and make prints. The scans just aren't serious. Also, this was my lo-fi, retro-ish time, hence the photos are simply filthy. There's every photo I've taken - 37 to fill a roll, and I'm being honest showing it all as they were. Finally, I'm a landscape guy, not doing much of any kind of journalism.

https://plus.google.com/photos/1104...ms/5905716531646717505?authkey=CO_fh-PJ5MnOcg

Xmas · Dec 21, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
That's essentially what I did, except I used a disc of plastic cut from a yogurt container. Eventually, I would like to get a set of the correct reloadable casettes (anyone out ther know for certain if the Canon II series will accept Leica casettes? I get mixed info from the 'net) and bulk load B&W film. For commercial cannisters, I'll make a couple delrin or maybe brass/aluminum cups to snap onto the botton of the film spool.

you probably need Canon cassettes for Canon LTMs mine will fit my Canon VI and P donno about your II no interchangeability with FILCA /IXMOO

E. von Hoegh · Dec 21, 2013

Xmas said:
you probably need Canon cassettes for Canon LTMs mine will fit my Canon VI and P donno about your II no interchangeability with FILCA /IXMOO

Thanks. For now I'll presume that Canon maintained compatibility across the models, so far Canon cassettes are scarce and pricey - four cassettes will cost more than the camera!!

Xmas · Dec 21, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
Thanks. For now I'll presume that Canon maintained compatibility across the models, so far Canon cassettes are scarce and pricey - four cassettes will cost more than the camera!!

Hi the camera must have been cheap as I think I got my last Canon P/Canon VI cassette for 8GBP with Canon tub. They don't appear often though.

This is what I wrote in a PM earlier

''
...the Leica LTM, (and al least some Fed1 and Zorki1) all have 2mm of cassette axial freedom of movement with commercial cassettes to the DIN standard. Note I don't have complete sets of these FSU cameras and it is a well known Leica feature.
Part way through the IIIf production Leitz introduced a finger to the baseplate next to the cassette to stop the film jumping (falling) out of the outer pressure plate rails.
This is unlikely as I've used a IIf, two IIIc, four Fed I and five Zorki I over many decades and not seen it yet, if the pressure plate springs are weak it might happen all the time.
The photo spills over into the sprocket holes...
With Leicas there are two velvet less cassettes (coaxial)
FILCA
IXMOO
The last is to the DIN standard and will fit both a LTM Leica and a M Leica and should operate ok except for Cl, M5, late M6 and post models M7 and MP. The former cassette is only for the LTM the M baseplate won't close.
The FSU LTM bottom loaders seem to be capable of operating FSU concentric cassettes, but I've got more than one type of cassette so one day I need to do a combinatorial search of which cassettes fit and operate ok in which bottom loader types I have ten or so different bottom loaders and several seemingly different cassettes and I doubt I have complete sets...
Hope this helps your query.
''
And Nikon, Nicca, Canon, Zeiss for Contax II and IIa, Kiev, Pentax, all did custom cassettes, (think the Pentax had velvet)...
Note the Nikon rfdrs and F and F2 cassettes may not have been all compatible some were, donno about the Contarex SLR and IIa compatibility, donno about the Canon LTM compatibility, the ones I have are all ok in Canon Vi and P but they are 'exactly' the same cameras/ body castings.
The Kiev, Contax II and Contax Iia (that I have) are all fully interchangeable.
It is all 'donno and must try harder'.

Noel

E. von Hoegh · Dec 21, 2013

The cassettes I saw were in the 20-25 USD range.

The camera is cosmetically very nice, and shows virtually no signs of use - but it needs new curtains, and a very thorough cleaning/relubricating with modern lubricants. As soon as I get the curtain material I'll do everything at one go, I do not want to disassemble it twice!
I made a test roll using some old movie trailer, I noticed the perforations were visible at the top of the frame - 2mm sounds about right for the temporary shim I installed. I'll see if I can borrow some cassettes to see what fits. I don't mind modifying the cassettes, but I won't modify the camera.

edit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-35mm-...105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485de7f991

Xmas · Dec 21, 2013

Well the photo in the link does look like mine but I dont think mine would work in a LTM Leica or M Leica...

And 29 USD nope.

I use plastic reloadables as well as Adox and Forma factory cassettes that have not been crimped.

But my chums get theirs from C41 mini labs that snip the film end - by using pressure sensitive tape to attach bulk unto the protruding end of the film of the discarded cassettes. The mini labs like recycling.

Xmas · Dec 23, 2013

Hi

I've looked at a Canon P and its cassette chamber is built to the DIN/ISO standard.

The Canon casette that I use says 'Canon V Japan' think this means that it is made for Canon V could be Canon went to DIN for the Canon V and post models like the VI and P that I use.

The above V casette model has only 1mm of free axial movement in my P.

It will fit in a Nikon F2 but won't open.

It won't fit into a Zorki I d # 4925xx ie the baseplate won't close but this is because the lock arm cassette opening device has been modified (bent) for ( to locate)factory DIN/ISO crimped cassettes...

E. von Hoegh · Dec 23, 2013

Xmas said:
Well the photo in the link does look like mine but I dont think mine would work in a LTM Leica or M Leica...

And 29 USD nope.

I use plastic reloadables as well as Adox and Forma factory cassettes that have not been crimped.

But my chums get theirs from C41 mini labs that snip the film end - by using pressure sensitive tape to attach bulk unto the protruding end of the film of the discarded cassettes. The mini labs like recycling.

Yes, I have a source for those as well as some older reloadable cassettes. I would like to have at least a few of the correct Canon cassettes though. Patience is in order.

q_x · Jan 10, 2014

I've developed the test roll, and it was a disaster.

Industar after cleaning: much worse than before, far away from being sharp. This lens is a part donor at best.

Soviet film canister doesn't leak light, which is great. But it doesn't help in terms of keeping the film in the right vertical position, which is what I hoped for. The film moves through the slit with considerable friction.

Zorki 4 simply slows down in the cold. I don't expect anything with this guy. However, Zorki C got some serious banding in above freezing, half of my test roll is a complete trash. Time for a CLA (at least I'll take a look under the top plate, I think). I've tensioned the springs as a temporary solution, tossed the camera into a freezer, took it out, and finally I've been able to pin-point exactly at what moment the issue starts: when the camera is cold, the first curtain stops somewhere along the way and both curtains are held like that, released when I release the shutter button. Doing photos in the wintertime with a camera like that isn't a good idea. It would work on B time only. Not sure if I want to have fun with these cameras at all or not, for now it's been a waste of time, at least in the cold.

Bad and ugly day today is what it is. Hope yours is/was better.

Lamar · Jan 11, 2014

Sorry to hear the testing did not work as hoped. Cooler temperatures have a negative impact on mine as well, specifically rear curtain travel times. I've posted in another thread on the topic. I can make the problems mostly go away when I use a space heater to warm up the camera so I'm guessing it's an old lubricant issue. In any case I will have to do a full CLA on mine as well. I bought a Zorki 4 with a bad shutter so I'm using that one to learn. When I feel I comfortable with the procedure and that I can reassemble the mechanisms properly I'll try it on my good Zorki 4. I've had almost no time this week for cameras though. Perhaps this weekend I can make some time.

On the Industar lens are you sure it was re-assembled correctly. I don't understand how it would be worse unless some of the elements are not installed correctly. I took apart an old Cintar lens for my Argus and it took a few tries to get it back working properly again. I remember I had made some re-assembly errors but that was so long ago I don't remember exactly what I had done wrong, elements not seated well or in backwards or something.

You probably already know about this but I found some information on the backsighting method to re-calibrate the focus on my Argus lens after I had it apart and I have used it to verify focus calibration on my Zorkis. http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/collimator.html I use the second method in the article.

q_x · Jan 11, 2014

Regarding y-day-s events something also scratched my film. I guess both Zorki and cassette need some serious cleaning.

Industar 61 - there's hardly anything to go wrong with this lens. I've unscrewed the rear part, cleaned all I could and screwed it back together tightly. The rear element (group) is mounted in a separate barrel, there's no chance of it being mounted backwards or misaligned heavily. If it's bad, I can't do much about it. The barrel is aluminum, but the screws are steel, and it all corroded beyond the point where I could unscrew it. It's not missfocused, but something is misaligned indeed. I'll do my best once more, shoot three frames and if it'll be bad - c'est la vie.

I'm not sure if problems with there cameras are limited to poor manfacture, looks like former users were also poor, not servicing them.

Cheers!

New to Rangefinders - Zorki Advice

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