New ortho 120 film from Foma

[FotoD]

Thanks! They look really nice.

Grain seems very managable, even with Rodinal

 

[pentaxuser]

I will reupload a few samples.

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

@albireo what do you mean? It hasn't...?

Verify if you haven't inadvertently clicked the 'ignore thread' button at some point:

 

[albireo]

@albireo what do you mean? It hasn't...?
View attachment 353924
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View attachment 353926

You were right. Thanks!

 

[koraks]

Great to hear it's solved!

 

[foc]

I think these were the ones we were discussing a few months ago

Technicalities: incident Exposure with a Sekonic 398 III meter set for 200EI; Fomadon R09 1+50 (Kodak agitation) 10 minutes, AP tank, plastic reels; Fomacitro Stop, Fomafix Fixer, tap water wash followed by final bath in distilled water and Fotonal. Raw linear positive negative scans in Vuescan, 16bit/channel, followed by inversion and standard monitor gamma correction. All automatic software processing by Vuescan was deactivated. No other non-linearities, editing etc applied, apart from setting of the black point and resizing. Importantly, the relative tonal response across the spectrum has not been altered in any way.

crop from last sample - central part of the frame

These were taken last Summer and I must admit I haven't used much of the stuff since then. I am just not a big fan of the dreamy highlight haloes (hopefully pretty noticeable in the last sample). I like the ortho spectral response a lot, but when I got into this Foma Ortho I was hoping for a sharp, clean higher sensitivity alternative to Ilford Ortho 80, and this Foma Ortho is not that.

I am not an 'anti-halation' purist at all: in fact, I use a lot of other film with minimal or no anti-halation layer such as Foma 400 in 35mm and Kentmere 400. However, I find this Foma Ortho produces more dramatic highlight glow than the other ones I've tried, in my workflow, and in comparable high contrast conditions. I just haven't felt inclined to pick a roll of it for my photo walk instead of the other stuff I have. Need to reassess it with some more thorough testing.

Thanks for the upload and details.

 

[alanrockwood]

Maybe a dumb question, but couldn't a person get basically the same effect as an ortho film by shooting a panchromatic film through an red-blocking appropriate filter?

 

[koraks]

@alanrockwood yes.
Having said that, I think the people who are into ortho film also use it because its unique spectral response curve. Since each film is more or less unique in this sense, taking a pan film and putting a red filter on it won't necessarily give the exact same results as an ortho film. I suppose the subtle differences are what makes ortho film attractive to some.

 

[albireo]

Maybe a dumb question, but couldn't a person get basically the same effect as an ortho film by shooting a panchromatic film through an red-blocking appropriate filter?

Not a dumb question at all. I'm sure there are many reasons, mine is that I don't like to use filters in front of my lenses, and prefer to choose film types/brands because of their unique spectral signatures.

Also I often shoot with medium format gear with no internal meter, I'm very absent minded, and if I used filters I would have to a) remember that specific filter correction factor and b) remember to dial it in when measuring my exposure. For me these are unnecessary distractions.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Maybe a dumb question, but couldn't a person get basically the same effect as an ortho film by shooting a panchromatic film through an red-blocking appropriate filter?

This is the route the forum user and cinematographer Jarin Blaschke took for the film "The Lighthouse".

 

[JPD]

Why is it that ortho, panorto and super-pan, films tend to have smaller grain than pan films with the same speed? Is it that the sensitization dyes absorb some light, so the grain has to be larger to compensate?

 

[koraks]

Why is it that ortho, panorto and super-pan, films tend to have smaller grain than pan films with the same speed?

I don't know if this is the case. I'll have to take your word for it. It seems to me that other parameters such as grain type (tabular vs. cubic) would have a bigger influence. And obviously film speed.

Is it that the sensitization dyes absorb some light, so the grain has to be larger to compensate?

This certainly is true; dye sensitization gains spectral sensitivity, but apparently comes at the cost of absolute sensitivity. Or at least so I believe I've read from @Photo Engineer at some point. The quantitative aspects of this effect I don't know the first thing about.

 

[lamerko]

Why is it that ortho, panorto and super-pan, films tend to have smaller grain than pan films with the same speed? Is it that the sensitization dyes absorb some light, so the grain has to be larger to compensate?

Foma 400
Resolving power 90 lines per mm
Granularity RMS = 17.5 (Microphen at 20 oC, developed to γ = 0.6 (measured at D = 1.0)

Ortho 400
Resolving power 85 lines per mm
Granularity RMS = 17.5 (Microphen at 20 oC, developed to γ = 0.6 (measured at D = 1.0)

The speed rating for these movies is probably quite bold. For many people, Foma 400 is around EI 200 and Ortho 400 is EI 125-160. But all these ratings are subjective…

 

[Roger Cole]

You also lose more speed using a pan film + filter than just starting out with an ortho film, as a general rule. OTOH you can get much faster pan films so that sort of answers that.

I've not shot true orthochromatic film but at least SOME panchromatic films I think are too sensitized into the red or even near infrared for some use. Putting a red filter on them may make them more or less ortho in response but that's often too much the other way. Thus the popularity of films like Acros, which I love.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

You also lose more speed using a pan film + filter than just starting out with an ortho film, as a general rule. OTOH you can get much faster pan films so that sort of answers that.

I've not shot true orthochromatic film but at least SOME panchromatic films I think are too sensitized into the red or even near infrared for some use. Putting a red filter on them may make them more or less ortho in response but that's often too much the other way. Thus the popularity of films like Acros, which I love.

I used to love Acros, until P30 came on the scene!

 

[albireo]

I used to love Acros, until P30 came on the scene!

how do they compare in terms of spectral response?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

how do they compare in terms of spectral response?

Ferrania has not published spectral sensitivity curves, so I can only go by what I see in the negatives, and prints. At the red end, P30 renders reds darker. Greens and blues are about the same (lighter than panchromatic films like my other favourite, HP5). I do wish they'd publish more data, especially reciprocity compensation...

 

[Cubao]

I do wish they'd publish more data, especially reciprocity compensation...

I‘ve sent Ferrania a request regarding reciprocity failure 2 or 3 years ago as they stated on their web page they will be happy to answer any question. Of course no reaction at all

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I‘ve sent Ferrania a request regarding reciprocity failure 2 or 3 years ago as they stated on their web page they will be happy to answer any question. Of course no reaction at all

Things are pretty tight there, I would think. To produce this info from scratch, would take manpower, and money. If they have their film recipes on file, you'd think they would also have spectral and reciprocity data. I can generate my own reciprocity data, but it would be nice to have theirs to compare with.

 

[Cubao]

would take manpower, and money.

Of course it would, but a serious manufacturer would do that. It’s nothing fancy but only a basic information

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Of course it would, but a serious manufacturer would do that. It’s nothing fancy but only a basic information

I'm pretty sure they are serious. I guess their priority lies with producing film for revenue (so it should be). Hopefully in time they will publish this information.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, the reason that Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris limit their reciprocity data to shorter than pinhole times is because the related industry does not manufacture a sensitometer that reliably and consistently emits and measures the extremely low level of light that would allow them to base their datasheet on the results of sensitometry.
They prefer not to publish data in the pinhole exposure range based on subjective impressions.

 

[schyter]

Hi everyone.

if this pseudo test can be useful to anyone.
Yesterday I shot the first roll of Fomapan Ortho 400.
I exposed film at 320 ISO (Rapri E201 / Sverdlovsk 4) using Salyut / Industar 29 (no filter) in low and medium contrast scenes (5-7 stop).
I didn't feel like preparing the Pota (Delagi) but I was actually curious to use the Thornton two baths.
I had a good response both in terms of graininess (really low) and detail/sharpness.
Developer Thornton always surprises me positively. Now also with Ortho.

Here are some scans (Epson V600 + sharp mask)















picture hosting

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Nice images. Thornton 2-Bath is an excellent developer.

 

[schyter]

Nice images. Thornton 2-Bath is an excellent developer.

I hoped it would work but I had doubts with an ortho film. She dispelled those too ...