New Kodak Film in 2021?

[wyofilm]

foma 400 is near infrared, very close to ilford sfx200.

Thanks for the reply. I did a looking since I posted and found the Efke had an IR film. Was it any good, for those that shot it?

 

[mshchem]

I'm still betting on more E6 offerings. I was looking through some late 90's literature, EK made a boat load of Ektachrome emulsions.

Ektachrome -X-II, Kodachrome III, whatever it is I hope I can afford it.

Maybe Sino Promise will bring back Microdol-X

 

[Sirius Glass]

So I'd conclude that from what you say Sirius that HIE depended on chemicals that require billions of dollars which presumably the Rollei and Ilford films do not? Thus the edge in terms of speed and no need for more than a red 25 for HIE is only possible by means of chemicals that cost billions and it is this that distinguished HIE from the likes of Ilford and Rollei and the late but lamented Konica?

If I have got this right as my interpretation of what you said then can you refer us to this source of information? It would be interesting to know what these chemicals are and why they cost billions

Thanks

pentaxuser

I shoot Rollei IR 400 film. While it is not HIE, it is as close as I can get AND it comes in 120. Rollei IR 400 works well with the R23, R25, R29 and 720 filters. I use the 720 the most, followed by R29. I have to set up the composition and then put on the 720. I can see through the R29 to compose.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Thanks for the reply. I did a looking since I posted and found the Efke had an IR film. Was it any good, for those that shot it?

Most Efke products weren't bad until their emulsion making apparatus slowly began to break down towards the end. The emulsions they made had been largely unchanged since the early 1950s. They had somewhat different characteristics from later (late 1950s onwards) more controlled crystal growth emulsions.

Konica also used to make an IR film.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

There was another IR b/w product from a company other thank Kodak, Rollei, and Ilford. Do you know who offered it? And was it any good. I just can't remember the manufacturer.

Efke maybe? I still have about 50, 8x10 sheets. Lovely stuff, but still needed an opaque IR filter on it to make it look like HIE. I shoot it at EI 1.5 with written 87C. Some examples are in the gallery.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Most Efke products weren't bad until their emulsion making apparatus slowly began to break down towards the end. The emulsions they made had been largely unchanged since the early 1950s. They had somewhat different characteristics from later (late 1950s onwards) more controlled crystal growth emulsions.

Konica also used to make an IR film.

I used quite a bit in Japan. Actually, it was the first IR film I had used. It's closer to Ilford's SFX. Rollei's is a bit better. So... There is nothing out there that even comes close to what HIE could do, even with a #25 filter at EI 100!

 

[Helge]

Konica and Efke made excellent IR film.
So it’s doesn’t have much to do with government subsidization.
None of them had the deep and high sensitivity of HIE though.
As close an approximation to HIE as possible would be good in my book too.
I don’t know about in recent years with LED bulbs, but you could shoot HIE inside a decently bright living room handheld.

The Rollei/Agfa films are OK.
But their sensitivity is low and we have no idea if the coating machines are still operational and running.
SFX200 also leads a perilous existence. It’s too grainy for it’s real speed and possibly less sensitive into real IR than Agfa/Rollei.

We need to drum up more interest around IR otherwise we are going to lose it.
IR accomplished most of what various colour filters more or less fail at.
Darkening the sky and brightening foliage and making skin glow.
Colour IR IMO is a gimmick. It never has anything to do with real colour, and is always going to look like images from Mars.
Red foliage and dark electric blue skyes is always going to look strange and is old hat after habituation.
Not so with B&W IR.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for your reply Sirius but I have to say it doesn't really answer my question which was: Was there a chemical or chemicals involved in Kodak HIE that made it different from other IR films and which are not now available to these other companies simply because only a government with the resources of a large nation of taxpayers could afford them which allowed Kodak to sell its film to general consumers at a reasonable price. In effect it sounds as if the taxpayer in effect subsided Kodak HIE consumers?

So what is the source of your knowledge and what were these very expensive chemicals? Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

The most important difference about HIE is that the high speed, highly mechanized quality control techniques used with other films, which used IR sensitive examination techniques, couldn't be used with HIE.
Any run of HIE involved a major reset of the plant, a lot of additional quality control work, significant wastage and general disruption to the profit making processes.
I expect the requirements of the major users of HIE - the military and some industries - may have required even narrower tolerances than regular film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I never got to use Konica IR film. I was unable for find it well after it was discontinued.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks for your reply Sirius but I have to say it doesn't really answer my question which was: Was there a chemical or chemicals involved in Kodak HIE that made it different from other IR films and which are not now available to these other companies simply because only a government with the resources of a large nation of taxpayers could afford them which allowed Kodak to sell its film to general consumers at a reasonable price. In effect it sounds as if the taxpayer in effect subsided Kodak HIE consumers?

So what is the source of your knowledge and what were these very expensive chemicals? Thanks

pentaxuser

Nothing concrete, just street talk at Kodak that the reason the expensive chemicals were used made a big enough difference that the US government called Kodak's IR films a National Treasure worth maintaining.

 

[Helge]

The most important difference about HIE is that the high speed, highly mechanized quality control techniques used with other films, which used IR sensitive examination techniques, couldn't be used with HIE.
Any run of HIE involved a major reset of the plant, a lot of additional quality control work, significant wastage and general disruption to the profit making processes.
I expect the requirements of the major users of HIE - the military and some industries - may have required even narrower tolerances than regular film.

Hey, even Efke could make post 800nm IR film in their poverty stricken, worn down fifties grade facilities.
It can’t be that difficult.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hey, even Efke could make post 800nm IR film in their poverty stricken, worn down fifties grade facilities.
It can’t be that difficult.

Kodak IR film was to government specifications. All others are not. That alone makes it harder to produce and raises the price. Among other things the government wants every roll to be exactly the same with very little variance and high quality control.

 

[markjwyatt]

Here we go again. HIE and IR Ektachrome were fully paid for and kept in business by the US Government as a Nation Resource. It paid for maintaining the supply of necessary chemical in the proper form. Those chemicals in the proper form are no longer available. To bring back those films are not economically feasible unless your personal bank account has billions of dollars. This has been posted many times on APUG and Photrio. Give us a break and dream about feasible films.

Did HIE require special chemicals?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

If Kodak made an IR film out to 820, like old Efke, that would be fine with me. Government specs are no longer a consideration anymore. Do a once a year run, like Konica did. It would be sold in a flash. Even if the price was high... And I promise, Sirius, I wouldn't complain about that.
I'd be curious to know if Kodak has looked into it, since starting this film revival.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

At least there's no anti-halation layer, so that's one less cost

 

[markjwyatt]

Nope. D-76 was perfect.

This HIE talk is making me want it even though I never missed it that much. I only shot a few 35mm rolls of it way back when I first got serious into photography but one of the first B&W pictures I made which I honestly thought was very good was on one of those rolls and I had a lot of fun working on the print.

At the time I took the film for for granted - didn’t know the ins and outs of the technology involved and difficulty in making it. I thought it was just another film sensitized differently.

It would be cool to have it back but I feel like it is too much of a “special purpose” type of product to appeal to enough casual users today, especially since you had to be a little more careful storing it, loading it, focusing etc., and of course some guesswork and bracketing was involved with exposure.

Thanks, that is what I thought. I shot a few rolls in the late 70s and early 80s, and got some cool images. I don't think I ever processed it, but I recall I could have. Maybe Kodak could bring it back, but without all the government specified controls,etc.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I was hooked after the first few 5x4 sheets. I've got about 20 sheets of very expired stuff left that still produces lovely images.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well, I’ve heard enough. I think it’s settled. HIE is coming back!

Even a reasonable facsimile will do!

 

[MattKing]

I'd be curious to know if Kodak has looked into it, since starting this film revival.

 

[MattKing]

Matt was told some things about what was being "looked into" (to quote Andrew).

 

[wyofilm]

Remember to report back that Andrew is willing to buy the entire stock of HIE if produced. (Of course, that won't help the rest of us.)

 

[Cholentpot]

Kodachrome 1600 HIE PX that can be processed in C-41, E-6, and K-98 Mauser.

 

[wyofilm]

K-98 Mauser

To add perforations?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Remember to report back that Andrew is willing to buy the entire stock of HIE if produced. (Of course, that won't help the rest of us.)

Just to keep it out of Sirius Glass' hands!