New Kodak Film in 2021?

Lachlan Young

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Helge said:
No, that was one of them. The other was regular reversal.
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Having found the paper that was given at the 2006 ICIS conference that Ron attended and discussed the outcomes of on here, it's actually effectively a negative working emulsion that when given extended thermal development undergoes direct reversal. The two patents referred to in the paper are here and here and go into more detail about the inventors' conjectures as to the processes at work.

There's also a paper from the same conference on Provia 400x and on Fuji's 'Image Intelligence' software. Like many of these papers given at imaging conferences, they tend to give hints rather than disclose directly.
 

wyofilm

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Andrew O'Neill said:
If they introduce a new film, do you think it'll be colour or black and white? I think it'll be colour. Maybe ISO 800.
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Are you thinking an 800 color consumer level film? Would make sense. In my mind, it will be HEI (wishful thinking on my part) or something at a higher ISO. Color makes sense. Such a film would have broad appeal. There is only so much broad interest in a 50 iso, high resolution b/w film!
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Yes, an 800 consumer level colour film. I've always been a huge supporter of HIE though, and would love to see it make a come back. Sheet sizes would be awesome!
 

wyofilm

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Read you linked paper. Very interesting, but I think you are right there won't be a 24000 ISO, reversal film forthcoming. If such a film did appear it would be for specific technical applications. Thanks for providing the link.
 

lantau

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Lachlan Young said:
There's also a paper from the same conference on Provia 400x and on Fuji's 'Image Intelligence' software. Like many of these papers given at imaging conferences, they tend to give hints rather than disclose directly.
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The Provia400x paper is very interesting. I head no idea it is such a young film. And died so young, as well. The film version of a Club 27 member... I didn't discover photography as a hobby until well into the digital age (and it was digital that triggered it). In my previous life I had only ever known the output of pedestrian color negative films Does it mean that previous 400 speed slide films were rather flat and boring? I guess the chances are very slim that EK is still capable of making a totally new film like 400X?
 

Wallendo

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Andrew O'Neill said:
If they introduce a new film, do you think it'll be colour or black and white? I think it'll be colour. Maybe ISO 800.
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Although I see an obvious gap in Kodak's B&W lineup - no medium speed traditional grain film, I doubt this represents a great marketing opportunity since there are already good 100-125 ISO traditional grain films available such as FP4+ and Fomapan

I would bet on a 800 speed color film - Kodak has used this film in disposable cameras for a long time. Hopefully accompanied by a 400 ISO E-6 film.

They also could bring back their chromogenic B&W film. If they can make smaller runs than before, this might be economically beneficial I don't know how much of a market there would be in 2021. With most local labs long gone, the films would need to be developed at home or sent out for processing and most mail order labs can do B&W development.
 

pentaxuser

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Andrew O'Neill said:
If they introduce a new film, do you think it'll be colour or black and white? I think it'll be colour. Maybe ISO 800.
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A bit like a " right and a left to the body, now a right and a left to the head. Folks, there is no way that Sugar Ray Fuji can now get off the canvas after that surprise attack from Jake LaKodak who has found Sugar Ray Fuji's weak point

pentaxuser
 

Helge

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It’s obvious to have a real C41 version of Vision3.
That would be killer, and quite easy.
It easy to rate it up to 800 or 1000 with or without tweaking the contrast.
It would put Cinestill out of business of course.
 

Agulliver

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Isn't it widely believed that Kodak's 800ISO C41 film from disposable cameras is also sold as Lomography 800ISO film? In other words there already exists a reasonably priced consumer 800 speed C41 film on the market....though supplies are patchy. Would putting the Kodak name on it sell? Are Lomography going to be happy with that? I'd buy which ever film I could get hold of because I like high speed film.
 

Lachlan Young

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lantau said:
Does it mean that previous 400 speed slide films were rather flat and boring? I guess the chances are very slim that EK is still capable of making a totally new film like 400X?
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400+ speed transparency was always challenging - they tended towards being very visually grainy and not terribly sharp at all. Instead of going to a new 400 speed, Kodak had launched E200 with the rest of the new E100S/E100SW etc range which you could readily push +1 to EI 320, +2 to 640 and +3 to 800 - by the time of Fuji 400x, Kodak's research was much more geared to colour neg, which by any standards easily outperforms transparency - and by 2006 most publication work (historically the major market for fast pro transparency) was, if still using film, using colour neg & scanning by one means or another - or making RA-4 prints.


Helge said:
It’s obvious to have a real C41 version of Vision3.
That would be killer, and quite easy.
It easy to rate it up to 800 or 1000 with or without tweaking the contrast.
It would put Cinestill out of business of course.
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The V3 and current Portra/ Ektar films are , when processed in their intended processes & appropriately inverted, very visually similar in terms of colour behaviour. There used to be a tungsten balanced, long exposure corrected Portra (100T) but it went in the mid 2000's. That said, all 4 V3 films have near identical sensitometric curves (not surprising) and tend to shoulder earlier than Portra. Apart from a fast, tungsten balanced stock and a lower saturation low speed stock there aren't that many hugely significant differences between V3 and current Kodak neg offerings. And Portra 800 is very good indeed. A real wild card would be something like Agfa Ultra 50 - but you'd need Agfa's C-41 couplers rather than Kodak's... More likely to be something Inoviscoat/ Filmotec would be able to do.
 

Helge

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Quote from the paper:
The main conclusions from this study are:
1. A silver halide photothermographic system has been demonstrated that can deliver useful photographic images with photographic speeds made at ISO 12,000 to 24,000 with dry-to-dry access times of 35 seconds.
2. By using a second stage of image amplification, it is possible to increase the effective photographic speeds of conventional negative working systems two to three stops.
3. The products of development can be used to inhibit the fogging development of an incorporated fine-grain component.

Ok, so not quite 24000. More like 6400 or 3200 for semi-conventional type development. But that would still be very impressive for a close to TMAX 400 image quality. And, it's more within the realm of what you could expect to be physically possible without changing coating and development technology fundamentally. And it should make storage and shipping easier.

I'm well aware that that is not what is going to happen this year. But it would be possible one way or another.

There is also the whole formate doping (plus TEA?) thing, that had similar speed claims. That might be sitting vacant in some patent vault somewhere.
 

Larry Cloetta

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On the one hand, there are films I would like to see, on the other hand there are films which Kodak is most likely to bring out next, if that even happens, and that’s likely to be whatever emulsion is the absolute easiest to make and produce by their current staff. Probably something extremely pedestrian would be my prediction, though I’d love to be wrong.
 

Helge

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HIE would be nice. And well within the possibilities of market and technology.
 

pentaxuser

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Helge said:
HIE would be nice. And well within the possibilities of market and technology.
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It's the one that if I were EK I'd be sorely tempted to bring back. It has a number of "edges" over any other IR film but cost v likely profit may well stand in the way. If I am typical and hopefully I am not I'd just not buy enough of it to make it viable

pentaxuser
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I'd buy a freezer load. Would prefer sheet film, but I'll 35!
 

Sirius Glass

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Andrew O'Neill said:
I'd buy a freezer load. Would prefer sheet film, but I'll 35!
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Here we go again. HIE and IR Ektachrome were fully paid for and kept in business by the US Government as a Nation Resource. It paid for maintaining the supply of necessary chemical in the proper form. Those chemicals in the proper form are no longer available. To bring back those films are not economically feasible unless your personal bank account has billions of dollars. This has been posted many times on APUG and Photrio. Give us a break and dream about feasible films.
 

miha

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IR Ektachrome, that would be something. But hey, Pentaxuser we are only allowed to dream according to benchmarks given by "society"!
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I will not "give it a break". There is nothing wrong with wanting. If Rollei can have an IR film.... I know I know it's not HIE.... Then why not Kodak? We all have to put up with your constant glorification of Hasselblad, so you can do the same...or just ignore us.
 

pentaxuser

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So I'd conclude that from what you say Sirius that HIE depended on chemicals that require billions of dollars which presumably the Rollei and Ilford films do not? Thus the edge in terms of speed and no need for more than a red 25 for HIE is only possible by means of chemicals that cost billions and it is this that distinguished HIE from the likes of Ilford and Rollei and the late but lamented Konica?

If I have got this right as my interpretation of what you said then can you refer us to this source of information? It would be interesting to know what these chemicals are and why they cost billions

Thanks

pentaxuser
 

wyofilm

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Andrew O'Neill said:
If Rollei can have an IR film.... I know I know it's not HIE
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There was another IR b/w product from a company other thank Kodak, Rollei, and Ilford. Do you know who offered it? And was it any good. I just can't remember the manufacturer.
 

NB23

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wyofilm said:
There was another IR b/w product from a company other thank Kodak, Rollei, and Ilford. Do you know who offered it? And was it any good. I just can't remember the manufacturer.
Click to expand...

foma 400 is near infrared, very close to ilford sfx200.
 
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