New Kodak Film in 2021?

Wallendo · Jan 9, 2021

An ultra high speed film would be interesting. I doubt I personally would shoot much of it, but would probably buy a play-around roll or two. My real concern for such a film is that it would likely be very sensitive to even low dose radiation. I would worry that somewhere in transit from Rochester to B&H/FreeStyle or shipment from the online store to my house or being mailed off to a lab, there would be enough low dose radiation exposure to fog the film. Creating a film which could also be processed well as a negative would at least remove one of those steps.

I can see how others would find this film useful. I do wonder about the overall demand for a product like this since this type of high speed performance is readily available with digital cameras. If Kodak really is working full-time to produce their current products, I find it unlikely they would retool at this time for a micro-niche product.

K25 · Jan 9, 2021

Kodak will bring two types of slide film, that's it. At a price of £16-17 per roll.

Lachlan Young · Jan 9, 2021

michael_r said:
The Holga type of aesthetic would also be nice to try. It would also give me the opportunity to try medium format film which I have honestly never used if you can believe that.

I've found that I tend to use 120 as my principle format if I just want to grab a camera & make images - especially as I don't need to drag a tripod with me. Though I suspect that people will probably take issue with the idea of a Pentax 6x7 as a point & shoot/ snapshot camera...

I'd certainly recommend trying a Holga/ Diana - my own issues with them relate more to the fairly fixed nature of the aesthetic - and that it doesn't really fit my own perception of the sort of wabi-sabi camera I like.

wyofilm · Jan 9, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
fairly fixed nature of the aesthetic

You hit the nail on the head. I am of fan of the Holga/Diana cameras, but I'm rarely in that mood. That being said a few of the Holga photos I've taken are some of my favorites.

eddie · Jan 9, 2021

I view the use of plastic cameras in terms of painting. When I'm using my better cameras, it's like having dozens of different tubes of color to put on canvas. With my Dianas/Holgas, it's like having only 2 or 3 colors to work with. The challenge is to come up with something worthwhile with a limited palette.

Lachlan Young · Jan 9, 2021

eddie said:
I view the use of plastic cameras in terms of painting. When I'm using my better cameras, it's like having dozens of different tubes of color to put on canvas. With my Dianas/Holgas, it's like having only 2 or 3 colors to work with. The challenge is to come up with something worthwhile with a limited palette.

A degree of formal limitations are often advantageous in creative work (indeed, one of the biggest problems with digital is it pretends to have none) - but everyone gets to choose which ones & how to use them.

Helge · Jan 9, 2021

wyofilm said:
You hit the nail on the head. I am of fan of the Holga/Diana cameras, but I'm rarely in that mood. That being said a few of the Holga photos I've taken are some of my favorites.

The “real version” of those cameras is a triplet folder, like a 40s or 50s Nettar or a Solida.
They’re solid and high quality, but with lots of character.
It’s also very easy to modify the lens with push on filter holders like the Omag.
A perfect receptacle for homemade filters and aperture cards, without needing to do anything hard to reverse to the lens.

The obvious problem with the sanctioned Lomograpy cameras is that they are bottled “creatitivity” and mass accepted faux authenticity. Like grunge, a product and sensibility of the nineties, still going strong in various versions after thirty years.

To be really creative with photography, even in a small way, is really damn hard work, at the outset, and then, and only then, up to luck in some measure.

Helge · Jan 9, 2021

Wallendo said:
An ultra high speed film would be interesting. I doubt I personally would shoot much of it, but would probably buy a play-around roll or two. My real concern for such a film is that it would likely be very sensitive to even low dose radiation. I would worry that somewhere in transit from Rochester to B&H/FreeStyle or shipment from the online store to my house or being mailed off to a lab, there would be enough low dose radiation exposure to fog the film. Creating a film which could also be processed well as a negative would at least remove one of those steps.

I can see how others would find this film useful. I do wonder about the overall demand for a product like this since this type of high speed performance is readily available with digital cameras. If Kodak really is working full-time to produce their current products, I find it unlikely they would retool at this time for a micro-niche product.

A ISO 24000 film with a TMAX 400 look, or close, would crush just about any digital camera trying to do B&W.

It’s quite amazing that such a thing is really possible under any circumstance, because at those light levels you are riding right on the edge of it being physically possible to get a clean 400 speed look image, due simply to the amount of photons.

Keepability would be a problem, as always with high speed film.
Indeed it seems that is the main reason why we don’t have higher speed film, and not as normally assumed strictly technical reasons.

Today there would be a number of ways to circumvent that, that was not quite as universally available in 2006.
Just in time delivery from freezer storage (within a few weeks) by online ordering, being the most obvious. Also educating stores and consumers to keep the film chilled until the last moment and shooting the film within a few days and quick development, would also seem easier in todays enthusiast driven market.

Agulliver · Jan 10, 2021

K25 said:
Kodak will bring two types of slide film, that's it. At a price of £16-17 per roll.

Ah, you have inside information?

It's certainly possible but you sound very certain. Can you please clarify if this is your personal opinion or if you heard something from a reliable source.

K25 · Jan 19, 2021

Old childhood friend of mine works for Alaris.

Tom Kershaw · Jan 19, 2021

I'll be interested to see if Kodak Alaris brings out a 5L E6 kit to compete with the Fuji Hunt kit.

Ernst-Jan · Jan 19, 2021

Is that the price for 135 or 120.
I pay €12 for 120 Velvia, the new Kodak would be €18-€19
That is a huge difference....

ChristopherCoy · Jan 19, 2021

Mackinaw said:
Perhaps two new films. One a reintroduction of a discontinued film, the other something new.

https://kosmofoto.com/2021/01/kodak...vEhMpui7Z3joQykhUBI-Cc6Yj-vJWFmK1xtkDdQaZKQIQ

Why doesn't the US have a website/blog/email list like Kosmo?

removedacct3 · Jan 19, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Regularly people post that the costs of [fill in whatever brand you think is expensive] is priced high because the manufacturer is greedy. That company does not have a corporate goal to make a huge profit nor drain your bank account, they are covering their costs so that they can stay in business. The companies are working on very thin profit margins. It helps no one when someone claims that the prices are "outrageous". If one finds a product that costs less, than buy it but do not complain the company has priced the film to financially ruin anyone. If you have irrefutable proof that any company is raising prices to only line its pockets, then come forward and post it, but do not post statements like "The cost of TriX is just one step away from pricing itself out of the market." unless you can prove it.

Well said, well said!

halfaman · Jan 19, 2021

Helge said:
Keepability would be a problem, as always with high speed film.
Indeed it seems that is the main reason why we don’t have higher speed film, and not as normally assumed strictly technical reasons.

PE commented on that somewhere in photrio. Super high sensitivity film is techically possible but shelf life is the hardest problem to overcome becuase it gets fogged during storage with too much ease.

Helge · Jan 19, 2021

halfaman said:
PE commented on that somewhere in photrio. Super high sensitivity film is techically possible but shelf life is the hardest problem to overcome becuase it gets fogged during storage with too much ease.

The cure would be either better storage. And/or some kind of easy, benign home hypering.

ludwighagelstein · Jan 20, 2021

Agulliver said:
Ah, you have inside information?

It's certainly possible but you sound very certain. Can you please clarify if this is your personal opinion or if you heard something from a reliable source.

I´d say this "certain" info is at least to be taken with a good chunk of salt.

Agulliver · Jan 21, 2021

If this hyper-fast film needs to be fresh....sold and used very quickly....then that will be a problem today. Not only would sales of said film be unpredictable and shipping affected by covid....I can see enraged users who didn't store it as directed and use as directed flocking to online forums and social medial to moan about how awful Kodak are....

Helge · Jan 21, 2021

Agulliver said:
If this hyper-fast film needs to be fresh....sold and used very quickly....then that will be a problem today. Not only would sales of said film be unpredictable and shipping affected by covid....I can see enraged users who didn't store it as directed and use as directed flocking to online forums and social medial to moan about how awful Kodak are....

It would require cooling and a more steady stream from manufacturing to consumer.

The solution to the first is well known.
It’s called a fridge or a freezer.

Most dealers should have one or the other.
And if the consumer can’t be trusted to put the film in the freezer when instructed to, they can’t be trusted to shoot film.
(Of course I’ve heard of people pulling film out of the cassette to see what’s on it, so never rule anything out).
But as the saying goes, against stupidity even the gods fight in vain.

Another possibility is a cooled vending machine.

It should be relatively easy to check for false claims from consumers with a cold seal on the leader (torn vs melted) and by checking at the edge and between the sprockets on the developed film for heat damage.

If it was like other fast film, only worse, two days in the mail probably wouldn’t hurt, as that is what the film would have to stand, at the very least in the camera.

Agulliver · Jan 21, 2021

It is indeed easy for Kodak to explain false claims....but once word is out there on social media and places like Photrio the damage is done.

People *still* believe that chromium dioxide cassette tape damages the heads of their machines.....which can be traced back to one single deliberately misleading trade demo by 3M/Scotch regarding professional use of video tape in the early 1980s.

While it may be viable for Kodak to manufacture this hyper-fast film, and indeed I'd be a regular if not frequent user.....I see it's introduction into today's marketplace as problematic. In an age when we have to teach otherwise functional adults how to wash their hands....I am not confident that people won't blame Kodak when their images aren't what they expect. We already have several threads blaming such things as backing paper, X-ray damage and so on when it is clearly user error.

Helge · Jan 21, 2021

The two 3200 (ISO 800-1000) films out there sell well, and there isn’t too many claims on it, I’d think.
Most people who shoot film today have a pretty good idea what they are doing I think.
We are not dealing with moms who let a roll sit in the camera for a decade because of lack of interest and cheapness anymore.

Lachlan Young · Jan 21, 2021

Something being forgotten here about the hyper fast film is that it was intended for dry thermal development - which would require a different processing setup than most people have.

Helge · Jan 21, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
Something being forgotten here about the hyper fast film is that it was intended for dry thermal development - which would require a different processing setup than most people have.

No, that was one of them. The other was regular reversal.

wyofilm · Jan 21, 2021

Helge said:
The other was regular reversal.

Correct, the film I mentioned is developed via a reversal processes. Further, this was a film Kodak seriously thought about releasing in 2006, according to Troop and Anchell.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 21, 2021

If they introduce a new film, do you think it'll be colour or black and white? I think it'll be colour. Maybe ISO 800.

New Kodak Film in 2021?

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