New Ihagee Elbaflex

[chuck3565]

I'm glad they are improving the light seals. I own a 19 and a 19M. The 19 doesn't have any light leaks except through the view finder. The 19M has multiple leaks since it was new.

 

[Two23]

While I certainly won't pooh-pooh it, I'm sticking with my F3T. It is the perfect 35mm camera.


Kent in SD

 

[oreston]

The max. shutter speed and the flash synch speed have remained the same as those of the Kiev 19M though.

Apparently one of the "modifications" they have made is to remove the exposure meter. It just gets better and better...

 

[AgX]

Because then they can sell in addition a rebadged Sverdlovsk meter.

To be serious again, are there any hints for the meter to have gone, aside of it not being mentioned?

 

[oreston]

Because then they can sell in addition a rebadged Sverdlovsk meter.

To be serious again, are there any hints for the meter to have gone, aside of it not being mentioned?

It's being discussed in the comments section on the Kickstarter page (and it does seem quite an important thing to "forget to mention"). Shoot me down if I'm wrong, though.

 

[AgX]

But why would one omit the meter? To make the camera more basic? (What is not bad as such.) Or because these parts no longer exist?

 

[Mistral75]

(...)

To be serious again, are there any hints for the meter to have gone, aside of it not being mentioned?

It is being mentioned as not being included (and this is presented as a strength of the camera) in the campaign section of the Kickstarter project:

The camera is all manual and mechanical. No battery whatsoever as we have not put in a light meter. Today it is much easier to use a light meter app on your mobile phone which offer you much more than a small light meter in your camera which requires batteries again.

 

[AgX]

To me that is a contradiction: presenting a most basic SLR as an attitude, and then referring to a smartphone again (and not a Sverdlovsk...)

But as you all know I regard myself as from the old farts faction.

 

[Mistral75]

The following was just posted by Ihagee / Creator in the Comments section of the Kickstarter project:

the inside of the camera is designed by our Ukrainian colleagues and made with the tools from the Arsenal factory. We are changing the materials used so that the reliability is higher. We have also done some changes to the shutter mechanism. The body is build with tools from the Kiev 19M. It would be impossible to produce new tools for those parts as this is too costly for the small quantities. Therefore the camera looks similar.

 

[oreston]

It is being mentioned as not being included (and this is presented as a strength of the camera) in the campaign section of the Kickstarter project:

This is the same kind of mentality according to which a Leica M-A is deemed superior because of it's meterless "purity". Maybe the meters on the new old stock Kievs have gone bad, but surely the challenge for a "premium" product was to upgrade and improve the existing capability, not to remove it?

 

[oreston]

It is being mentioned as not being included (and this is presented as a strength of the camera) in the campaign section of the Kickstarter project:

So they're saying that a smartphone app is better than TTL? If they were advocating use of a proper handheld meter and encouraging people to try incident readings I could perhaps have some sympathy, but this is nonsense.

 

[Björn]

I am very disappointed by this. When I first heard that it was supposed to be a resurrected Kiev 19 I became hopeful that they were going for a basic simple SLR for a reasonable price. I would pay up to maybe $300 for that camera. IF they had taken a more honest approach. Why not just say that they have the opportunity to resurrect analog camera production in Europe with an improved Kiev 19. That I would support. Not this "boutique" camera rubbish. Why not play up the cameras soviet heritage instead oh hiding it behind a screen of German engineers? The real sad thing is that these tools that with the right people owning them could be making a LOT more cameras now will be making very few. It would honestly been a lot better if lomography would have bought the factory. They are at least interested in selling cameras. If the retail price is high because they expect to sell so few they could at least try to use crowdfunding to bring the cost down.

I wonder if all the zenit tooling s scrapped?

 

[Mistral75]

(...)

I wonder if all the zenit tooling s scrapped?

KMZ are still up and running, producing military equipment, lenses for Lomography, lenses of their own (including newly developed ones under the Zenit brand) and are having some kind of partnership with Leica with a view to developing a mirrorless system (camera and lenses). Their situation is therefore much different from that of the Arsenal factory.

Whether the tooling from the old Zenit cameras is still stored somewhere in a proper way or is getting rusty to the point of being unusable or has been scrapped is unknown to me.

 

[oreston]

"Ihagee" have taken a lot of (justifiable) criticism and the Kickstarter effort seems to have stalled, with failure to attain the target beginning to look like a real possibility. So now they've posted the following in a response to a question in the comments:

"We have been thinking and testing some technical things mainly the possibility to have not only Nikon mount. As we updated today we also have the possibility now to offer a camera with M42 lens mount and Pentax K as well. M42 is especailly interesting as it opens the opportunity to get vintage lenses at very low cost. So many may find this an opportunity to get into analog photography at very reasonable cost. We also offer a base model now without leather, wooden grip and a shorter guarantee or better we have increased the guarantee of the Prime model to five (!) years."

On the plus side, they're starting to think about maximizing the potential of this project. On the minus side, the various mount options will probably still be overpriced as the potential will remain rather limited from a technical standpoint. It will still be an SLR body with no internal meter and a shutter that is only capable of 1/500 sec. despite being of the metal bladed, vertically travelling type.

The only people I would feel really sorry for if this project didn't succeed would be the Ukrainian former Arsenal staff who would be building the cameras and for whom this presumably represents a very welcome chance of employment in their former occupation.

 

[Mistral75]

(...)

The only people I would feel really sorry for if this project didn't succeed would be the Ukrainian former Arsenal staff who would be building the cameras and for whom this presumably represents a very welcome chance of employment in their former occupation.

I'm not so sure the 47 cameras currently ordered by backers -make them 100 if the target is reached- will represent / would have represented that many man.hours for the Ukrainian workers...

Remember that the Nikon F6 is hand-made by two people working part time on this task.

 

[Arbitrarium]

So many may find this an opportunity to get into analog photography at very reasonable cost.

Very...
Reasonable...
Cost...

I despair.

 

[Billy Axeman]

I'm not so sure the 47 cameras currently ordered by backers -make them 100 if the target is reached- will represent / would have represented that many man.hours for the Ukrainian workers...
Remember that the Nikon F6 is hand-made by two people working part time on this task.

Please don't mention the Nikon F6 in the Ihagee kickstarter Comments section ...

Good decision to offer a version without grip, they should have done that from the beginning. I guess the next step will be a universal solution with a replaceable grip in black or wood, with the narrow form-factor of the original.

Offering a camera with Pentax K and M42 mount is sort of overkill. It is very easy to change Pentax K to M42 with a simple converter, already available on the market from various brands, including Pentax.

Edit - Comment about aperture coupling removed.

 

[Mistral75]

Do you want to laugh a bit?

Download the high-resolution Ihagee_Dresden_Elbaflex_Camera_02.jpg picture from the press kit:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly88a4g0...preview=Ihagee_Dresden_Elbaflex_Camera_02.jpg

In addition to the 'Ihagee' and 'Elbaflex' logos being obviously photoshopped, look at the bottom of the reflection:

Put it upside down and add a bit of contrast:

Oops, the trainee forgot to photoshop the '19M' (from Kiev 19M) out of the reflection!!!

 

[AgX]

Very telling...

A firm that does not exist, offers a camera that does not exist either.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Very telling...

A firm that does not exist, offers a camera that does not exist either.

On the Ihagee web stite (http://i-hagee.com/contact/) an Ihagee GmbH is mentioned located in Dresden.

I have searched in:

[1] Unternehmensregister
Die Zentrale Plattform für die Speicherung von Unternehmensdaten
https://www.unternehmensregister.de/ureg/

[2] Germany Public Records
http://publicrecords.searchsystems....e_Free_Public_Records/Germany_Public_Records/

... and no Ihagee GmbH is found, so indeed it seems they made that up.

 

[oreston]

On the Ihagee web stite (http://i-hagee.com/contact/) an Ihagee GmbH is mentioned located in Dresden.

I have searched in:

[1] Unternehmensregister
Die Zentrale Plattform für die Speicherung von Unternehmensdaten
https://www.unternehmensregister.de/ureg/

[2] Germany Public Records
http://publicrecords.searchsystems....e_Free_Public_Records/Germany_Public_Records/

... and no Ihagee GmbH is found, so indeed it seems they made that up.

I looked at this when the Elbaflex was first announced. They give their Dresden address as Weißeritzstraße 3. There's a restaurant there: http://www.kuppelrestaurant.de

I suppose it's perfectly possible that there are other businesses located in the same building, but I couldn't find any corroboration on the internet for "Ihagee" being there. The 2017 "Ihagee Dresden" probably has even less real connection with Dresden than "Oprema Jena" has with Jena.

 

[Billy Axeman]

There is also a Farheap GmbH on Weißeritzstraße 3 (established in 2006).

See NewOfficeEurope.com
https://www.newofficeeurope.com/details/serviced-offices-wei-eritzstra-e-3-dresden-sachsen

It seems to be a business centre.

 

[oreston]

There is also a Farheap GmbH on Weißeritzstraße 3 (established in 2006).

See NewOfficeEurope.com
https://www.newofficeeurope.com/details/serviced-offices-wei-eritzstra-e-3-dresden-sachsen

It seems to be a business centre.

Fair enough. Perhaps they've taken this office space so recently that the information hasn't found its way into directories and listings. Looks like it will just be an office though, rather than a *kamera werk" or a "Feinoptisches werk." Just enough to give them some sort of a presence in the city that was the home of the real, historical Ihagee. If I sound cynical it's because I think they are.

 

[AgX]

This is not about directories, but about a legal issue of claiming to be of legal status that is not.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Perhaps registration of Ihagee GmbH is pending until their target on Kickstarter is reached and finalized when there are enough backers. That would allow them to wind up their project (including their address in Dresden) in case of a failure without making too much costs.

Still, currently only half of their goal is reached with 10 days to go. They are saying: "All or Nothing". The easiest way out is to extend the period by saying the new option (without grip) needs a chance.

It seems the camera has a fixed grip (no visible mounting screw). So it's not a good plan to have a version with- and without grip with this construction because you need to produce various versions of bodies. The most obvious solution is to make the grip removable as it was on the 19M. That will make everybody happy, also people who don't like grips.