New Ihagee Elbaflex

[AgX]

Comparing the Kiev 19 and 19M (if that's the precursor) I hope they are offering the Ihagee Elbaflex with brass bottom plate and top cover, ...

I have come across some battered SLR, but still not one with a broken plastic top or bottom.

 

[Billy Axeman]

I have come across some battered SLR, but still not one with a broken plastic top or bottom.

I don't question the solidity of a plastic top, but I like brass because it has a more vintage and luxurious feel. I was very disappointed when I found out that my Pentax ME Super had plastic beneath the chrome.

 

[AgX]

Pentacon introduced these chromed plastic tops with the Praktica L. It took some years for the japanese manufacturers to follow.

I get your point now. But concerning the feel, I myself have difficulties distinguishuing between brass and metallized plastic tops by touching.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Pentacon introduced these chromed plastic tops with the Praktica L. It took some years for the japanese manufacturers to follow.

I get your point now. But concerning the feel, I myself have difficulties distinguishuing between brass and metallized plastic tops by touching.

'Feel' is meant metaphorical here

The homepage on the web-site is updated showing more from the camera.
The grip has no visible screw by which it can be (could be) removed.
The paint is very raw.
On the front a Nikkor-S lens, weird.

 

[AgX]

'Feel' is meant metaphorical here

What reminds me of an old ad for diamonds (De Beers?): "To know it is a Diamond"

 

[Mistral75]

(...)
On the front a Nikkor-S lens, weird.

Nikkor-S (Septa) lenses had 7 elements.

Nikkor-T (tri) had 3 elements, Nikkor-Q (quad) has 4 elements, Nikkor-P (penta) had 5 elements, Nikkor-H (hexa) had 6 elements and so on.

The Kickstarter link: Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

 

[Billy Axeman]

They are giving us a virtually unchanged Kiev 19M with a slapped on wooden grip and a new name, and proposing a retail price of $1500 ?
That confirms the Nikon F6 is unbeatable by a wide margin, as stated by me in the Reflex thread.

 

[oreston]

Nikkor-S (Septa) lenses had 7 elements.

Nikkor-T (tri) had 3 elements, Nikkor-Q (quad) has 4 elements, Nikkor-P (penta) had 5 elements, Nikkor-H (hexa) had 6 elements and so on.

The Kickstarter link: Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

The lowest Kickstarter price for the body only is $499 (for 24 hrs. only). The eventual retail price is apparently going to be $1,500! The spiel on the Kickstarter page goes on about Johan Steenbergen, Ihagee Dresden and the "original" Elbaflex (which was actually the Exakta Varex) as if they have some tangible connection with this reborn Kiev 19M beyond the appropriation of an old trade name. Strangely there's little mention of the camera's true provenance. Absolutely unconscionable.

For $499 (let alone $1,500) you could buy just about any classic manual focus Nikon in perfect condition. Any of them would have a better spec sheet than this thing. I like the idea of somebody making a new film camera, I really do, but this is just a cynical exercise in fleecing the ignorant.

 

[Mistral75]

Prices are outrageous, like always with Meyer-Optik Görlitz and their bunch:

- 24h offer $499
- Super Early Bird $529 (50 units)
- Early Bird $549 (75 units)
- Super Deal $599 (100 units),
- bundled with Meyer-Optik Görlitz Trioplan 50mm: $1,299 (50 units)
- bundled with Meyer-Optik Görlitz Lydith 30mm f/3.5: $1,399 (50 units)
- bundled with Meyer-Optik Görlitz Primotar (Tessar) 50mm f/2.8: $1,499 (50 units).

- forecast RRP (body only): $1,499.

The Kickstarter campaign is only a marketing tool: the financing goal is set at $50,000.

 

[AgX]

Be fair... If you look long, very long at the prism housing there is a moulding difference to the 19M versions I found so far.

 

[Billy Axeman]

This also proves the Reflex guys are totally wrong with their cost estimation.

 

[Arbitrarium]

The Reflex Kickstarter is at least trying some new ideas.

This thing... I don't get it. There's absolutely nothing new. Just get a Nikkormat for £20. For the retail price they're asking I could buy several FM3As! They're out of their trees.

 

[cramej]

The camera will be available with a choice of four distinct leather colors...

But not only the camera can be colorful, of course more important is the color of the images taken - but see for yourself.



That's possibly the most BS statement about a camera I've ever read!!! They're off their bloody rockers on this thing - just hoping to make a quick buck off of some really gullible 'analog enthusiasts'!

 

[Billy Axeman]

You can't blame Ihagee doing an honest calculation of the cost vs. an estimation how many camera's they will sell. These prices are simply a reflection of the harsh reality. It is still amazing though they expect to sell enough camera's without loosing money.

Ihagee is also hinting on their home page that this is only the first camera they will make. So I guess part of the equation is also establishing a name and perhaps to discourage other projects in an early stage.

 

[cramej]

The more I read about the project, the more I feel like it's a sham.

You can't blame Ihagee doing an honest calculation of the cost vs. an estimation how many camera's they will sell. These prices are simply a reflection of the harsh reality. It is still amazing though they expect to sell enough camera's without loosing money.

No, you can blame them. The harsh reality is that they have a limited supply of NOS 19m's they're modifying and reselling as ELBAFLEX and want to make as much money as possible on some old parts they bought for cheap.

They'd probably make more money just coming out and saying it's a modified NOS 19m and sell them for a truly reasonable price - not 'Leica reasonable'. It figures that they're former Leica and Schneider people thinking that $1500 is affordable to most people.

This kind of stuff really irritates me in that they want you to believe it's something new and great and they're 'getting back to basics' for photography. I used to be in the graphic design industry and the marketing drivel that attempts to make faults into features is so blasted stupid. In reality, the heart of the camera is a low-spec, 1980's camera from the Ukraine that is somehow now premium. The whole concept could be really great if they didn't try to put it behind this veil of analog mystique and were open about the origins.

 

[faberryman]

Way too expensive for a Kiev 19M reissue (or NOS).

 

[oreston]

You can't blame Ihagee doing an honest calculation of the cost vs. an estimation how many camera's they will sell. These prices are simply a reflection of the harsh reality. It is still amazing though they expect to sell enough camera's without loosing money.

"Ihagee" (...it doesn't really seem right to refer to them by that name, but never mind) are "only" looking to raise $50,000 on Kickstarter. I think that lends further credence to the notion that they might simply be pimping NOS Kiev 19m's. This might only be a production run of a few hundred cameras and therefore they may only need to find a few hundred idiots to buy them.

 

[farmersteve]

$1500 for a crappy SLR that looks like something from about 1970? Why don't I just buy a used Nikon FM3A for about half that? I think this will fall flat on it's face after the initial Kickstarter. I give Reflex a better chance at succeeding that this POS.

 

[Billy Axeman]

$1500 for a crappy SLR that looks like something from about 1970? Why don't I just buy a used Nikon FM3A for about half that? I think this will fall flat on it's face after the initial Kickstarter. I give Reflex a better chance at succeeding that this POS.

I don't think so.

My estimation is that Reflex will crash early next year because of technical and financial problems. Moreover, it seems most team members already have a job so they are doing this in their spare time and they will run out of time getting this done.
My impression is also that they have limited knowledge of camera technology because they must be corrected by users in the Comments section on elementary points.
They also have no factory (clean-room), no tools, no testing and calibration equipment, they must train personnel etc. etc,

On the other hand, Ihagee (or whatever name you use) seems to have their organization already in place; for example they know they need, or already have, 22 production workers in their factory in Ukraine. They also have a working camera so no problems there either.

Currently, after 1/2 day, Ihagee has already reached half the amount of the $50.000 goal (with 28 backers for the body, 18 hours to go).

 

[removed account4]

i heard there is a little bird inside every camera with a stone a chisel and hammer just like on the flintstones ...
they only have a limited supply of birds so the 50K is to continually breed more of them. and they have
to train them to speak in a variety of different languages so if you peek inside the camera you
hear them remark " it's a living" or " i shouldn't have quit my day job" in a variety of different languages.
http://www.polaroidland.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screen-shot-2012-02-03-at-12.35.21-PM.png
there was a kickstarter a year or 2 ago for a vacuum cleaner that was a small hybridized wooly mammoth,
maybe it was a "pigmy wooly mammoth" ? and it did the same thing.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01728/elehoover_1728746a.gif
and a year or 2 before that , it was a photograph
that played grooved slate records and the tone arm was a bird with a long beak ..
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/12/31/a6/1231a6aea2146107e856c390ea72e3ed.jpg
i heard their workshop is in a structure built by antonio gaudi, that looks like casa mila
http://images.adsttc.com/media/imag...ona-casa-mila-01-samuel-ludwig.jpg?1367255048
they seem to be on a roll !

 

[Mistral75]

(...)

On the other hand, Ihagee (or whatever name you use) seems to have their organization already in place; for example they know they need, or already have, 22 production workers in their factory in Ukraine. They also have a working camera so no problems there either.

(...)

Behind the Ihagee resurrection there are the same persons (the German, listed 'net SE' group and its CEO Dr Stefan Immes) as those behind the resurrection of the Meyer-Optik Görlitz and Oprema Jena brands and behind the Emil Busch Glaukar Anastigmat lens. Many of their projects were funded, and above all marketed, on crowd-funding platforms such as Kickstarter and Indiegogo.

So yes, they perfectly know what they are doing.

 

[farmersteve]

I don't think so.

My estimation is that Reflex will crash early next year because of technical and financial problems. Moreover, it seems most team members already have a job so they are doing this in their spare time and they will run out of time getting this done.
My impression is also that they have limited knowledge of camera technology because they must be corrected by users in the Comments section on elementary points.
They also have no factory (clean-room), no tools, no testing and calibration equipment, they must train personnel etc. etc,

On the other hand, Ihagee (or whatever name you use) seems to have their organization already in place; for example they know they need, or already have, 22 production workers in their factory in Ukraine. They also have a working camera so no problems there either.

Currently, after 1/2 day, Ihagee has already reached half the amount of the $50.000 goal (with 28 backers for the body, 18 hours to go).

That just tells me that the true cost to make the Ihagee is a fraction of the $1500 they will be charging since they are just resurrecting an old camera design. Hopefully they can put some resources into upgrades, especially the shutter

 

[AgX]

Behind the Ihagee resurrection there are the same persons (the German, listed 'net SE' group and its CEO Dr Stefan Immes) as those behind the resurrection of the Meyer-Optik Görlitz and Oprema Jena brands and behind the Emil Busch Glaukar Anastigmat lens. Many of their projects were funded, and above all marketed, on crowd-funding platforms such as Kickstarter and Indiegogo.

So yes, they perfectly know what they are doing.

Actually there is not even officially such firm.

 

[Mistral75]

Actually there is not even officially such firm.

Which such firm? Do you mean Ihagee GmbH? Because the net SE group definitely exists:

http://www.netag.de/

(...) Hopefully they can put some resources into upgrades, especially the shutter

They wrote the following in the Campaign section of the Kickstarter project:

This inside of the camera has been improved by carefully reengineering some of its key components, especially some of its mechanical elements. These parts include elements of the mechanical shutter, the usage of different sealing materials of the highest quality and a new, soft stop of the mirror on a specially designed foam pad.

The max. shutter speed and the flash synch speed have remained the same as those of the Kiev 19M though.

 

[AgX]

Officially there is no Ihagee GmbH.