The answer to which is what? I still can't work it out. Can I phrase my question more simply perhaps as follows: Does this camera have a 50mm F5.6 lens and if not what does it have?
pentaxuser
New half frame camera from Agfaphoto
-
A
- Thread starter Huss
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
Want to Buy Wanted: Your gacked Nikkor-P 105/2.5 F-mount
- Started by j-dogg
-
For Sale FS: Kodak Ektar 12" f/4.5 Lens
- Started by B.S.Kumar
-
For Sale Rodenstock Rodagon 80mm enlarging lens
- Started by madsox
-
For Sale Schneider-Kreuznach 100mm enlarging lens
- Started by madsox
-
For Sale FS: Dallmeyer Patent 2B Lens
- Started by B.S.Kumar
Forum statistics
The answer to which is what? I still can't work it out. Can I phrase my question more simply perhaps as follows: Does this camera have a 50mm F5.6 lens and if not what does it have?
pentaxuser
It is marked 50mm f 5.6, but most of us do not believe that. Which is why I want to get hold of one and test it next to my Kodak H35, as I am pretty sure they are the same camera.
At the moment the Agfa is not available for sale in the US through regular channels.
Regardless of the focal length, at f5.6 with a shutter of 1/120, you would have to use ISO 12-15 speed film to get a correct exposure in a sunny location.
One possibility is that it sets the f-stop to f5.6 when the flash is used -- but is normally f11
Some of the SUPERHEADZ adn other 35mm P&S cameras open the aperture when the flash is used, for example, so it's not unheard of. Many 110 cameras with flashes did the same thing
One possibility is that it sets the f-stop to f5.6 when the flash is used -- but is normally f11
Some of the SUPERHEADZ adn other 35mm P&S cameras open the aperture when the flash is used, for example, so it's not unheard of. Many 110 cameras with flashes did the same thing
Last edited:
All you gotta do is look at the exposures/pics the reviewer posted on 35mmc using iso 400 film to see that it is not an f5.6 lens.
Doesn't that contravene the law. I am pretty sure it contravenes the law as it pertains to "Trading Standards" in the U.K.?
However as few seem concerned about a company allegedly doing this and I will not be buying this camera I may as well bow out now
pentaxuser
I've been wondering that, also.
I was going to say does it matter? As these are just basic zero input cameras. But then I saw in the comments section to that in-depth review that one person said he would get it for when he needed a faster lens.
So he actually would be misled.
I feel kinda bad to think about doing this, but seeing that I can get a beautiful N80 for less money than this Agfa, I wouldn’t feel too bad to buy one and return it after testing it IF my tests show it is not a 50mm f 5.6 lens.
Shooting it alongside my Kodak H35 will demonstrate that.
Of course, if I find out it IS a 50mm 5.6 lens, I’ll keep it. I have a feeling there is little chance of that.
Shooting it alongside my Kodak H35 will demonstrate that.
Of course, if I find out it IS a 50mm 5.6 lens, I’ll keep it. I have a feeling there is little chance of that.
Unless the camera is three inches thick, you can't have a 50mm lens recessed that far into a camera body.
You nailed it.
This is not this first time in history that there has been a lack of "truth in advertising".
Get OVA it!!!!
We all gotta talk about something and the soap operas don't air on the weekend.
MattKing
Moderator
Well I agree that printing "50mm F5.6" on the front of a camera would tend to surprise us here, I think you might have trouble convincing a Court that that shorthand designation for something a fair bit more detailed and complex would be likely to intentionally and meaningfully mislead most of the intended market for these cameras.
Can you point to evidence that there is a universal understanding of that shorthand?
Can you point to evidence that there is a universal understanding of that shorthand?
What does OVA mean? Is it an acronym? Optically Vague Aperture?
A universal understanding of the fact that 50mm means the space between the film plane and the lens is 50mm? And a universal understanding that f5.6 means that the maximum size iris that lets light through from the lens to the film is 50/5.6mm or 9mm? A universal understanding of the what the terms mean? Of course not.
Matt it sounds like it's "open season" for misleading labelling and the great thing is that it may not be an offence
So can I ask would it be a provable offence in a Canadian law court if this was on the front of say a Nikon/Hasselblad lens and accompanied by product literature that essentially said the same?
Now admittedly the only literature I have is the link from the opening post and this may not replicate accurately what Lupus sends out with the camera but it seems almost inconceivable that the article has made such a mistake
Maybe what will work in the camera maker's favour in a court of law is the somewhat relaxed attitude to such matters as accuracy in product literature that is being expressed here in Photrio assuming it reflects what appears to be the new "psyche" on such matters
pentaxuser
MattKing
Moderator
Where does it say anything in that photo about 50mm being a focal length, or F5.6 is an aperture? It doesn't say what those numbers refer to on the camera.
It does, however, say this in the accompanying Amazon description:
It may be more relevant to question whether it breaches Amazon's rules.
A Nikon brochure would be more likely to be construed strictly than a poorly labelled camera.
It does, however, say this in the accompanying Amazon description:
PERFECT FOR OUTDOORS & INDOORS SHOOTING: One button fully automatic point and shoot camera with 1/120s shutter speed, 50mm lens, fixed focusing, has an aperture of F5.6 perfect for daytime scenes. Built-in flash, recommended using 1 AAA alkaline battery and the flash has 10-15 seconds recycle time, it’s perfect for night time or party shoot. (AAA battery is not included)
It may be more relevant to question whether it breaches Amazon's rules.
A Nikon brochure would be more likely to be construed strictly than a poorly labelled camera.
The bizarre thing, of course, is that no one would want 50mm on a half frame point-and-shoot. 21-28 would be best. And depth of field of 50mm at 5.6 is pretty sad.
@MattKing --- if the 50mm on the lens doesn't refer to the lens, what does it refer to? Labelling with the appearance of identifying is pretty straightforwardly understood as something people in general would be inclined to believe is accurate. And whatever is "universally" understood (which is nothing, nothing at all), it is most definitely a convention to write the actual approximate focal length of the lens on the lens.
@MattKing --- if the 50mm on the lens doesn't refer to the lens, what does it refer to? Labelling with the appearance of identifying is pretty straightforwardly understood as something people in general would be inclined to believe is accurate. And whatever is "universally" understood (which is nothing, nothing at all), it is most definitely a convention to write the actual approximate focal length of the lens on the lens.
MattKing
Moderator
I don't disagree that it is at least confusing. And it is almost certainly inaccurate. I'm commenting on whether all that mess could result in some sort of legal action - not likely!
The language in the product description is far more precise, so it would be far easier to base any enforcement action on that.
The language in the product description is far more precise, so it would be far easier to base any enforcement action on that.
Still not available in the USA in the Agfa version.
MattKing
Moderator
That doesn't really matter.
What I'm referencing is something that you brought up - whether it is a matter that might attract legal consequences.
The strange and vague letters and numbers on the front of the camera aren't going to do that on their own. The much more detailed information in the description might.
OK I just wondered if you might have cared to speculate what purpose the 50mm and f5.6 on the camera lens might otherwise have referred to
They didn't seem particularly strange and vague to me
pentaxuser
Yea, they don't seem strange or vague to me either. Clearly says 50mm F=5.6. Which also clearly is BS.
MattKing
Moderator
When it comes to considering legal remedies, you need to put yourself into other people's shoes.
They are strange and vague because they don't say anything about referring in any way to lens focal length, or aperture. They are just (apparently) a distance measurement of some sort, and a number with an F in front of it. Or alternatively, they could just as well be a decorative element, copied from another camera.
We are likely to take them to mean something to do with focal length and aperture of a lens because they use a shorthand that we are familiar with, but that shorthand assumes a whole bunch of prior knowledge and applied convention, and that knowledge and convention is far from universal. And (Huss being a possible exception) we are not the target market for this product.
When you start thinking about suing someone or criminally/administratively charging them with an offence, good luck if the falsehood that you are alleging depends on an assumption that is only understood by a relatively small segment of the population - particularly if that segment isn't who the product is marketed to.
The language in the product description turns the assumption into a certainty.
They are strange and vague because they don't say anything about referring in any way to lens focal length, or aperture. They are just (apparently) a distance measurement of some sort, and a number with an F in front of it. Or alternatively, they could just as well be a decorative element, copied from another camera.
We are likely to take them to mean something to do with focal length and aperture of a lens because they use a shorthand that we are familiar with, but that shorthand assumes a whole bunch of prior knowledge and applied convention, and that knowledge and convention is far from universal. And (Huss being a possible exception) we are not the target market for this product.
When you start thinking about suing someone or criminally/administratively charging them with an offence, good luck if the falsehood that you are alleging depends on an assumption that is only understood by a relatively small segment of the population - particularly if that segment isn't who the product is marketed to.
The language in the product description turns the assumption into a certainty.
But that's not necessarily true. A true telephoto design will have less distance between the film plane and lens for the same image scale, yet is universally expressed as the equivalent non-telephoto lens focal length that would form an image of the same scale.
Of course this isn't such a lens, but that's not the point; the point is simply that this definition is also simplistic and not always correct for other cases where its use is well established.
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |