New films shown at ICIS by Fuji and Kodak

[Samuel B]

Thermal Development

So what's the catch with thermal development films? How come it has never migrated to a consumer type product. Would it be a lot more expensive than conventional film?

 

[Photo Engineer]

r-s states: I'm a writer, not a salesman. But, in a former life... (implying being a salesman?)

I don't know what he means by later saying he was not a salesman, but in any event he seems to have some axe to grind with me for the way I state things. Sorry guys.

There is a lot of history or backstory with this entire thread.

Here is a more complete, but still abridged, story:

The form was printed with the intention of being handed out at the ICIS talk. Since there were nearly 400 attendees, we expected to see a reasonable number of attendees at this talk. There were about 20, most everyone else going to a competing digital presentation scheduled at the same time.

So, the speaker decided to not hand it out at the talk, but instead asked me to post it, as he originally planned for additional distribution, if there appeared to be sufficient response. A change in what was originally decided.

I returned here to see only a few posts to the thread and was a bit disappointed in the response myself. I felt that perhaps there was not much interest, and that explained my followup post on 'seeming lack of interest'. I was just not sure of whether I should do it but finally decided to based on the response and interest I did get.

I was not speaking for Kodak in any way and have not been. I have not acted on my own either, but was asked by the speaker to post the form, not that it would matter to anyone here but r-s who wants to somehow dissect everything that I have said.

I hope he is getting a good story from this. If he is a writer, I would like to say that he does not have my permission to quote any of my comments in any context! I doubt if that would hold water though.

In any event, he has ignored the problems and product oriented comments I made in my previous post, but Samual Bs post above is pertinent to this very discussion. The price might be too high in addition to there being potential production problems. IDK, but that is another factor to consider in producing a new product.

At the present time, no one knows anything about this material and r-s is basically looking askance at the whole thing, but the rest of you seem to be approaching this with an open mind. Thank you all.

Well, I'm reminded of an old saying: "no good deed goes unpunished". I tried to do what a friend asked, and something that might benefit APUG. IDK if it will happen.

I agree r-s, we both need a break.

PE

 

[DBP]

Photo Engineer - Can you take a break from the bickering and let us know what the survey results are to date? I seem to remember you being copied on the emails.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sorry, I am not copied. This is a Kodak matter.

Sorry about the 'bicker' as well. I dislike it myself and it was not my intent to get involved, but certain statements and comments were either misinterpreted or misrepresented.

I don't go into extensive detail about some posts like this and it may have lead to some misunderstanding.

PE

 

[DBP]

Sorry for the confusion. I thought you were paulg64306@aol.com

 

[Greg_E]

For those of you who are the DIY type, if this (or any) thermally developed film comes to market, here are some links you might want to keep:

http://www.watlow.com/products/heaters/
http://www.ogdenmfg.com/strip.htm
http://www.hotwatt.com/

These were originally gathered in an attempt to find an alternative for a lack of options in another area of photography, but that project kind of ground to a halt (temporarily).

And again, if the backing paper allowed (was designed to allow) enough heat transfer, it seems like it would be really simple to create a machine that would develop the film while unrolling the spool (in a light tight box).

 

[ChrisW]

To be honest, I only just came across this post. I typically don't look in this forum. I have to imagine a LOT of APUGgers would be interested.

Well spoken. As a B+W purist, I rarely find a reason to check this column. Aside from Ilford, I haven't had much hope in seeing new products in our field. I check the B+W forum two to four times daily. I check this forum once a month. Maybe.

PE, I believe your thread has fallen victim to a lightly attended forum. Your news is very important. While I despise Kodak for their decisions and execution, I know this film would sell if made available.

PE, this is not a slight to you, but I will bet Kodak has an ulterior motive. My conspiracy theory says they were approached by, let's see, a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY to produce a new surveillance film. They smelled a profit or offset by dumping on the pro photo community. We get all hot and bothered, show great desire, EK produces a few different formats. Loyal customers are hooked. The government uses the initial order, then replaces the film with digital technology. Kodak announces a complete cancellation of all customer deliveries two days before the stock runs out.

I will never buy another Kodak product. Alright, if they somehow resurrected TP, I would buy it all. Hypocrisy, thy name is Chris.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well spoken. As a B+W purist, I rarely find a reason to check this column. Aside from Ilford, I haven't had much hope in seeing new products in our field. I check the B+W forum two to four times daily. I check this forum once a month. Maybe.

PE, I believe your thread has fallen victim to a lightly attended forum. Your news is very important. While I despise Kodak for their decisions and execution, I know this film would sell if made available.

PE, this is not a slight to you, but I will bet Kodak has an ulterior motive. My conspiracy theory says they were approached by, let's see, a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY to produce a new surveillance film. They smelled a profit or offset by dumping on the pro photo community. We get all hot and bothered, show great desire, EK produces a few different formats. Loyal customers are hooked. The government uses the initial order, then replaces the film with digital technology. Kodak announces a complete cancellation of all customer deliveries two days before the stock runs out.

I will never buy another Kodak product. Alright, if they somehow resurrected TP, I would buy it all. Hypocrisy, thy name is Chris.

Well, I know how this film came to be.

I can say that your post is way off base. I think you have been shorted in your latest dose of lithium.....

Just kidding on that last.

PE

 

[ChrisW]

I stand deservedly muzzled. No more unprompted rages at little K. In this thread.

Does lithium reduce the grain, or increase the highlights?

 

[DBP]

Does lithium reduce the grain, or increase the highlights?

It accentuates the midtones.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I stand deservedly muzzled. No more unprompted rages at little K. In this thread.

Does lithium reduce the grain, or increase the highlights?

Chris;

Rage at them all you want. They more often than not, deserve it.

But your 'hypothesis' was so far from reality, I couldn't keep from making the comment. Especially the way I did.

BTW, Lithium helps you keep the world in focus, even if it is to everyone else.

LoL.

PE

 

[Derek Lofgreen]

I just sent them an email too. This could be a real big deal. (begin dream) Imagine having a color neg you just shot in a medium format that you could run through a little machine and presto it's ready for a scan.(end of dream) I mean a digital back for a hassi is as much as a new honda, if you could have the immediacy of digital with the resolution and cost of film that would be cool.

Or just being able to shoot a wedding reception or event at the local elks club cave without a flash would be very fun.

 

[acroell]

Here
http://www.imaging.org/resources/web_tutorials/photothermography.cfm
is a short introduction to thermal development. I remember those pink paper copiers from 3M mentioned there, my Dad had one in his office a long time ago. What I found interesting is that from the many medical and military uses noted in the article it is clear that self-contained units for "development" do exist, so developing one for this new film shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Photo Engineer]

That is a good article.

Mel was one of the main speakers at this session, IIRC, and he got a lifetime award by the ICIS for his devoted work to analog photography.

He is an excellent researcher, speaker and overall dedicated worker in the analog photographic field. This reference is worth reading.

PE

 

[ajuk]

This appeared in the official proceedings of the ICIS organization and the reference to their journal is on www.photo.net. I did not repeat that reference on APUG. Carrying this information is up to the press. How inteterested do you think they are in analog news?

I cannot find a reference to the Fuji film either, but Dr. Tani said it was new and not for sale yet. So, what do you expect? Maybe it will never go on sale. Who knows.

PE

I was talking more about photography news pages Such as the BJP etc.

 

[Samuel B]

Here
http://www.imaging.org/resources/web_tutorials/photothermography.cfm
is a short introduction to thermal development. I remember those pink paper copiers from 3M mentioned there, my Dad had one in his office a long time ago. What I found interesting is that from the many medical and military uses noted in the article it is clear that self-contained units for "development" do exist, so developing one for this new film shouldn't be too difficult.

Thanks for that link, it is very informative & answered the questions I had about thermal development. Interesting to see that the Fujix Pictrography process is a type of thermal development, which I wasn't aware of.

 

[SuzanneR]

So, I e-maied one of those forms a couple of weeks ago, and just received an e-mail from Kodak saying they are not making this film avaliable for commercial uses.

Bummer!

 

[jd callow]

So, I e-maied one of those forms a couple of weeks ago, and just received an e-mail from Kodak saying they are not making this film avaliable for commercial uses.

Bummer!

They sent me nothing...

 

[jd callow]

Oops spoke too soon. I suspect my dear john was the same as Suzane's.

I'm glad they are still trying...

 

[Roger Krueger]

So, I e-maied one of those forms a couple of weeks ago, and just received an e-mail from Kodak saying they are not making this film avaliable for commercial uses.

Bummer!

Yup, I got the same e-mail. Disappointed, yes; surprised, no. Any hope they'l license it to someone who is still interested in making film?

 

[Greg_E]

I noticed that it was a relatively small list of people in the to box. Couldn't have been more than about a hundred people listed. Oh well, maybe they will license it to someone else.

 

[Petzi]

No big deal, the market for b/w slide film is small. They should reconsider their decision and offer high speed print film. I am sure that would be a success.

 

[sanderx1]

So, I e-maied one of those forms a couple of weeks ago, and just received an e-mail from Kodak saying they are not making this film avaliable for commercial uses.

Bummer!

This is unfortunate but probably reflects the reality of bringing new niche products to market at the present time, I guess. Can't really fault them for asking and trying... I wonder is B2B is covered under "commercialy available" or if a business pre-ordering bulk and offering processing would be exempt.

 

[ajuk]

Does that Fuji film really exist, can't find any references to it.

 

[r-s]

For several days now Fuji has been running TV commercials for a disposable camera with a new super fast film and a very high shutter speed to prevent blurred photos. I presume this is the film mentioned atop this thread.