New films shown at ICIS by Fuji and Kodak

[agGNOME]

Thank You. Sounds like a bit of an uphill battle, it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[gr82bart]

Talk about full circle! I came across this thread since it was a link - of all places - DP Review! The posts are quite civil there when it comes to film, lately. This is a good sign for a resurgence, I think, in film use. The title caption there was much more dramatic - "NEW ISO 24000 B+W film" It just grabbed my attention better, I guess! Oh well, I sent my form in. Thanks for the first post.

Regards, Art.

 

[LukeRamirez]

iso 24k b/w film

I can see this film having a market (albeit, probably small) with some journalists, students, and many fine artists. I know I'd love to be able to shoot handheld shots at night, and get grain equivalent to most 400 speed films.

 

[Fintan]

We used a heated archlike metal plate called a 'shoe' which had a thermometer inserted into it to read temperature, and it was heated by coils. The film was processed by moving the base side slowly over the shoe so that total contact time from start to finish equalled the development time required.

This could be done manually for sheets of film or paper, or automatically with a moving web of film, using rollers to move it across the shoe.

I don't suggest that anyone do this in total darkness and that is why I suspect that Kodak will process the first batch (if any) themselves to provide quality and safety.

PE

Would this be a totally dry process or would just the development be done on the hotplate, fixing etc in the normal manner?

 

[varjag]

I am interested in a film like this, ending up too often wishing for more speed with documentary work; going to send in my form today.

 

[alien]

I just sent my form.

Ansgar

 

[Photo Engineer]

Would this be a totally dry process or would just the development be done on the hotplate, fixing etc in the normal manner?

This process is completely dry. The development and stabilization both take place at the same time when the film is heated.

There is no liquid involved and no extra step(s).

PE

 

[canuhead]

so it may very well be possible to process this film in a toaster oven ? that would be very cool. kinda far fetched I know but whoda thunk up 24000 film ?

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

This process is completely dry. The development and stabilization both take place at the same time when the film is heated.

There is no liquid involved and no extra step(s).

PE

Good afternoon PE,

Sounds like the perfect remote location travel film, expect for what the airlines could do to this stuff. Some sort of home processor would be interesting. I recall the not well conceived Polaroid home processor and 35mm films, though the size of the processor was convenient.

A technical question about this film, since it is roll film. There are some backs, and some cameras, that use a red window to show the number on the paper backing for advancing the film; could this film be used with such backs/cameras? Would the red window film counter method cause problems? Any other oddities, like needing to load in complete darkness?

Thanks!

Ciao!

Gordon

 

[Fintan]

This process is completely dry. The development and stabilization both take place at the same time when the film is heated.

There is no liquid involved and no extra step(s).

PE

Thats extremely interesting. I hope this trial is successful. Thanks for the info.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Good afternoon PE,

Sounds like the perfect remote location travel film, expect for what the airlines could do to this stuff. Some sort of home processor would be interesting. I recall the not well conceived Polaroid home processor and 35mm films, though the size of the processor was convenient.

A technical question about this film, since it is roll film. There are some backs, and some cameras, that use a red window to show the number on the paper backing for advancing the film; could this film be used with such backs/cameras? Would the red window film counter method cause problems? Any other oddities, like needing to load in complete darkness?

Thanks!

Ciao!

Gordon

Gordon, this is a 24,000 film. I would assume that loading in total darkness and use of backs without windows would be the proper thing to do.

PE

 

[Donald Qualls]

At the very least, for 120, I think you'd want a backing paper with a continuous metal layer or equivalent to ensure sufficient opacity -- this is about six stops faster than common ISO 400, and almost five stops faster than the real speed of Delta 3200.

I think my Spotmatic might be *really* interesting to load in total darkness -- I have to get the film into a rather small slit in the takeup spool, and get it to stay there while I advance at least one frame, or it won't stay caught when I close the back. Hmmm. Not to mention, my darkroom probably isn't dark enough for this stuff; I can see stuff (not distinctly, but definitely not just random retinal firing) in my peripheral vision when I've been in there for ten minutes or so loading holders or similar; that, in 24000 film, would be like the display on my cell phone lighting up the room with 400 film out. Maybe use a changing bag in the darkroom with the lights out?

Could also be some limitations to using older cameras like my Spottie with this stuff -- my upper limit without filters would be, if I calculated straight, LV 11, and the shutter and lens would be good for hand holding for about 6 LV below the limit where the meter is no longer accurate (about LV 1, give or take, IIRC). Wonder if Kodak would throw in a 49 mm ND .9 with a case purchase?

Of real interest to me is whether this technology could be "detuned", as it were, to make usable ISO 1600 or 3200 films -- not like the ISO 800-1000 films that are "rated" for a two stop push, like TMZ P3200 and Delta 3200, but a real ISO speed of 3200 (closer to Polaroid 667). There'd be a LOT more market for a film with real speed in that range than there would be for ISO 24000 (IMO). With silver, it's a given you can make it slower more easily than you can make it faster. Heaven only knows what's going on for chemistry with this stuff...

 

[jd callow]

I love the idea of a super fast film that has a dry development process.

 

[acroell]

Ok, I sent out the form. I hope it works out.

 

[daddeldu]

1200 Iso COLOR negative??

This 1200 ISO negative film, is that COLOR negative?
Thank you for your answer - Hening Bettermann

 

[Greg_E]

If you can get enough thermal transfer through the backing paper of roll film, then it seems like the developing machine should be fairly simple to construct. That would also prevent scratches to the film base as it moved over the heated element. there is a huge selection of electric heating elements available, many with polish stainless steel surfaces, and a host of temperature sensing and control devices to go with them. Making a motorized system, and timing the passage of the film over the heater would be the hardest part, and even that might not be to bad depending on the temperature/time variances allowed with this process. I'm sure building something that you could load the exposed spool in one side, and have it spool up on the other side can't be that hard. Then you just need to build a light proof box around that device. Shouldn't be that hard, and shouldn't be too expensive.

And yes I did send an email, but didn't really estimate the number of rolls that I might use... it really would be completely dependent on the results. I'm just down the road in Syracuse, so maybe I'll get a phone call.

I think I would be interested in a slower and finer grain version of the same thing, if only to have a B/W positive film that didn't require a difficult process. Mechanics like this are easy for me to build.

 

[butterflydream]

If there is no chemical required but temperature, why the dark "room" is necessary? A dark "box" with hot rollers will be safe enough. Maybe even integrated with film scanner.

 

[Mongo]

Sent my request in...a film like this has too many possibilities to begin to list. If they do produce the film (fingers crossed!) I'll be interested to see how the film handles over/under exposure. It sounds like development will be a "one size fits all" affair. Regardless, I will have some true fun if they do a run of this film.

Thanks for the heads-up PE.

 

[Dracotype]

I sent in my form. Imagine the astrophotography aplications. Available darkness may take on a new meaning...

Drew

 

[Samuel B]

I am intrigued by this dry thermal development. It sounds extraordinary. Revolutionary even. Is there any chance we will see any 'normal' speed films with this type of development? Has this technology been around for long? Could it be applied to a colour film at all? If a ISO 24000 film had similar grain to current ISO 400 film, how good would a ISO 400 version be?
It would be a fairly simple piece of equipment required to develop it, and could be done almost anywhere, I imagine.
All sorts of possibilties for such a film.

 

[dmr]

This may sound kinda stupid, but I was wondering how I would ever meter exposure for such a film? That's like 4-5 stops dimmer than what my cameras can meter. I would love to try something like this for real low light stuff, but are there any inexpensive hand-held meters that are sensitive enough for this kind of film in very low light?

 

[nworth]

A 24000 speed film with the grain of Tri-X would be a real revolution. It would also be very useful, especially if it has a good characteristic curve. The thermal processing sounds like an excellent, easy, cheap technique. But for large scale use, processing equipment would need to be available.

 

[Donald Qualls]

This 1200 ISO negative film, is that COLOR negative?
Thank you for your answer - Hening Bettermann

As I read it, this is B&W, and it's 10x faster than this -- it's not ISO 1200, it's ISO 12 *thousand* (to 24 thousand). That makes it two to three stops faster than Polaroid Type 667, but (according to the original postings) with grain comparable to current ISO 400 silver halide films.

 

[egdinger]

Donald, daddeldu was asking about the fuji 1200 iso, that seems to have been completly overshadowed by the 24000 kodak emulsion.

To you daddeldu, I don't know, but I want to say that it is color. PE can you chime in here?

 

[Petzi]

Hardly ever do I encounter a situation where it is too dim for the exposure meter. You just get very long exposure times with regular film.

The 12,000 ASA film might give photographers many new opportunities. For example shooting 8x10" outdoors at f/45 and 1/250 sec.