New Film from Foma

[analoguey]

Fantastic news. Although I'm not especially on the look out for new film, the discussion above makes me pause and wonder if I should try this retropan out. Especially re contact printing

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

And a bit more digging on the Foma site and here is the datasheet for the special developer: http://www.foma.cz/ew/f1eccb0a-1372-4955-b7c6-7b5998472475-en

 

[pentaxuser]

The instructions on the special developer are a bit sparse but as it only makes 1L of developer and there is no indication of further dilution then I take it that you pour the dev back into the container and re-use each time with no further increase in time as the 1L becomes used?

It seem that it might only last 3-6 months once you start to use it so at worst you have 3 months to develop 25 films. My rate is way below this but might be fine for other heavier users. Pity there is no Xtol times

pentaxuser

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Pity there is no Xtol times

Does Koda provide times for Fomapan films on their Xtol datasheet?
Foma does provide times for Xtol and other developers in their catalogue.
See this PDF, page 6: http://foma-cz.cs4.cstech.cz/ew/92cad2bd-ec2b-4442-bc3c-b13be9ea63ff-en

They also provide times for Retropan 320 soft in other developers like HC-110 or Microphen: http://foma-cz.cs4.cstech.cz/ew/ec816f17-da8b-49ce-bd89-1d75aa19fee6-en

 

[pentaxuser]

Does Koda provide times for Fomapan films on their Xtol datasheet?
Foma does provide times for Xtol and other developers in their catalogue.
See this PDF, page 6: http://foma-cz.cs4.cstech.cz/ew/92cad2bd-ec2b-4442-bc3c-b13be9ea63ff-en

They also provide times for Retropan 320 soft in other developers like HC-110 or Microphen: http://foma-cz.cs4.cstech.cz/ew/ec816f17-da8b-49ce-bd89-1d75aa19fee6-en

Thanks for that. I had seen the times in your second link but I wondered how to translate those developer times to Xtol times.

I suppose you might use the Fomapan 400 times for Xtol in your first link for the new 320 "soft" film but does the fact that it is a different film i.e. is more than just a Fomapan 400 reduced in speed to 320 make an appreciable to the development time?

Call me lazy or unadventurous if you will but when you launch a new film it surely makes sense to help new users as much as possible by testing it in a bigger range of developers rather than having users perform a "learning by doing" routine.

I cannot see Ilford launching a new film without times for the usual range of developers and while Foma may be smaller and less well resourced it is still the likes of Ilford and Kodak it competes against

pentaxuser

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I did this exercise for you.
Consider these times for Fomapan 400:
HC-110 = 6.5min.
Microphen = 8-9min.
Xtol = 7min.

And these are the times for Retropan 320 Soft
HC-110 = 7-8min.
Microphen = 10-11min.

I think you can extrapolate from these figures and see that Retropan 320 soft requires 1-2 minutes more development.
So, Xtol should be 8-9min.
Something for you to start with.

I suppose the datasheet provided by Foma is a preliminary one. Their datasheets are normally more complete.
They probably only tested the film with developers they think are appropriate to this film.

 

[Xmas]

Thanks for that. I had seen the times in your second link but I wondered how to translate those developer times to Xtol times.

I suppose you might use the Fomapan 400 times for Xtol in your first link for the new 320 "soft" film but does the fact that it is a different film i.e. is more than just a Fomapan 400 reduced in speed to 320 make an appreciable to the development time?

Call me lazy or unadventurous if you will but when you launch a new film it surely makes sense to help new users as much as possible by testing it in a bigger range of developers rather than having users perform a "learning by doing" routine.

I cannot see Ilford launching a new film without times for the usual range of developers and while Foma may be smaller and less well resourced it is still the likes of Ilford and Kodak it competes against

pentaxuser

Hi lazy
You do realise only 17m bulk,... in first distribution?
I take it this is a development coating that worked better than expected so they are releasing it without normal finishing.
Noel

 

[pentaxuser]

Hi lazy
You do realise only 17m bulk,... in first distribution?
I take it this is a development coating that worked better than expected so they are releasing it without normal finishing.
Noel

Hi Santa Thanks for that. I think you are saying that only 17m bulk rolls are currently available and that having found the development coating which was tried out in a bulk roll to work as it should, Foma decided to sell this in advance of cassettes, 120( I presume?) etc.

I wonder what its timetable is for 135 cassettes and I presume 120 eventually? Seems a slight strange way of launching a product. A bit hand to mouth as they say

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks Ricardo for that guidance

pentaxuser

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

You're welcome!

17M work fine for me.
And I don't need times: every film goes well with Fomadon R09 1+100 for 1 hour stand development.

 

[nworth]

I particularly noted that this film builds density but does not build much contrast with extended development, at least in the recommended Foma Retro developer. Curious. The very sharp cutoff at 650nm is also interesting (as is the similar cutoff at 700nm for the 400 film). 650 nm is not very deep into the red, so it may produce some interesting results there. But this is not much different than where the films of the 40s and early 50s started to lose sensitivity, although they did it more gradually.

 

[pentaxuser]

The very sharp cutoff at 650nm is also interesting (as is the similar cutoff at 700nm for the 400 film). 650 nm is not very deep into the red, so it may produce some interesting results there..

What would be the interesting results?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Xmas]

Hi Santa Thanks for that. I think you are saying that only 17m bulk rolls are currently available and that having found the development coating which was tried out in a bulk roll to work as it should, Foma decided to sell this in advance of cassettes, 120( I presume?) etc.

I wonder what its timetable is for 135 cassettes and I presume 120 eventually? Seems a slight strange way of launching a product. A bit hand to mouth as they say

pentaxuser

I was merely warning you that it was early days...but,
Cash flow - lots of people still use bulk, the cassette boxes, labels and dx codes may be on a few months delivery.
Do you want to wait?
Their step outside and shoot the factory building testing would be done with generic cassettes with avery label just like my bulk load shooting.
The ISO speed test inside the factory but they would still want dull bright and night shots just to be sure they had a viable product different from the 400.
Quite forgot what finishing they will provide only realised no cassettes and only 17m length in 35mm.

 

[Xmas]

What would be the interesting results?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Some black fabrics in tungsten light with near IR colour will be black rather than grey (a M8 sensor saw them purple).

 

[kossi008]

Hm... I don't get the specialty in the spectral characteristic. It cuts off rather sharply at 650 nm, just like a lot of other panchromatic films (Fomapan 100, Agfa APX 100/400 old, Ilford Pan F/FP4/HP5/Delta100, Kodak Tri-X/Tmax400, Fuji Neopan 100/400)...

To me, it seems that films like Fomapan 200/400 and Ilford Delta 400/1600, which extend to 700 nm, are the exception rather than the norm...

(PS: This non-exhaustive survey is simply of the data sheets I happen to have handy at the moment... so please feel free to place Tmax100/3200, Kentmere 100/400 or whatever else on the map for us)

 

[Xmas]

Ilford SFX has a little bit more than the others like fomapan 400 so needs a lot less exposure behind typical black IR filters.

But Foma do have to try and differentiate it from their 400 which can produce strange skin differention if your subject is critical.

Typically I get comments

why is my nose so big
special designed jap distorting lens

 

[pentaxuser]

Some black fabrics in tungsten light with near IR colour will be black rather than grey (a M8 sensor saw them purple).

Can you explain further, thanks.

pentaxuser.

 

[Xmas]

Sorry

Most digital cameras have sharp cut IR filters as the typical sensor is near IR sensitive.

The Leica M8 (and RD1) did not fit IR filters.

To get colour they used a mosaic of three colour filters.

If you have a tungsten studio there is a lot of IR as well as lesser amount of red green and blue.

Some black fabrics in visible spectra are instead 'white' in IR ie don't reflect visible light but reflect IR energy.

So you took a photo in studio and the black fabric was red when you chimped.

Leica issued free sharp cut IR filters...

If you take portraits with SFX or even Foma 400 the IR sensitivity of the films can alter the tones you see alarmingly...

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the reply Xmas and we may have to leave it there but I had difficulty connecting what you said in post 67 with the cut-off at 650 on a new Foma film.

I was asking what the interesting effects might be with the Foma 320 compared to say TMax, HP5+ etc

If the Foma 320 lacks red sensitivity then might this mean that reds are darker in prints? I wasn't sure what effect the Foma 320 would have on black fabric under tungsten light compared to the effect of the same tungsten lights with other films.

I didn't see the connection with your quote "some black fabrics in near IR colour will be black rather than grey( a M8 sensor saw then purple)". I wasn't sure how a M8 which is a digital camera with a digital sensor was connected to an analogue camera shooting Foma 320

pentaxuser

 

[Xmas]

I'll try again

Foma 400 will give strange results for critical portraits.

Foma 320 will (should) be closer to visual.

You can look at data sheets.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks again. I had seen the comments about Foma 400 giving strange results for portraiture and Foma 320 being closer to visual. It was really my question actually posed to nworth's comments on interesting results resulting from a cut-off at 650nm and lacking in red sensitivity that I was looking for an answer on

Pity that nworth hasn't replied but it is open to anyone else, assuming that anyone else believes it will be interesting . What specifically will be the interesting results from a cut-off at 650nm

I had assumed that interesting meant "different" from or "unusual" compared to other films.

Maybe it was just a throw-away line. Pity

pentaxuser

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Foma Retropan 320 Soft is now available... in Estonia.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimeruum/18835916211/

 

[flavio81]

Thanks again. I had seen the comments about Foma 400 giving strange results for portraiture and Foma 320 being closer to visual. It was really my question actually posed to nworth's comments on interesting results resulting from a cut-off at 650nm and lacking in red sensitivity that I was looking for an answer on

Pity that nworth hasn't replied but it is open to anyone else, assuming that anyone else believes it will be interesting . What specifically will be the interesting results from a cut-off at 650nm

Pentaxuser,

Foma 400 is really a ISO 250 film. The times published for using it at 400 are really pushing the film, thus the contrast is pumped up. This is not good for portraits unless your light is really soft. The spectral sensitivity of the film is not a disadvantage.
Foma is not lying, since their datasheets are very honest and open: they do tell you that the film is ISO 250 in D76 (or similar). It's just a matter of looking at the published graphs.

Foma 100 is similar, about ISO 64 or 80.

I have some portraits done with Foma 400 and 100 that I like a lot, and in both cases the contrast of the scene was low. When the scene contrast is normal or high, the midtones go to hell and the highlights block really easily.

So, bottom line is, that you should be able to use Foma 400 as a regular-contrast film if you rate it at 200 or 250 and process accordingly. Which is something i'm going to do this month or next.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thank you flavio81. I have understood all of what you said but presumably all or most of what you have said would apply to any film which is nominally 400 but in reality is 200-250 even if that film lacked red sensitivity.

In other words what's the connection between real film speed and the lack of red sensitivity? I appreciate you or anyone else are trying to answer what is someone else's comment.

Frankly the spectral curve of this film doesn't seem significantly different from a few others such as HP5+ but if it does lack a significant amount of red sensitivity then what practical differences might I see between a print of the same scene from a Foma neg compared to a HP5+ neg?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[flavio81]

Thank you flavio81. I have understood all of what you said but presumably all or most of what you have said would apply to any film which is nominally 400 but in reality is 200-250 even if that film lacked red sensitivity.

In other words what's the connection between real film speed and the lack of red sensitivity? I appreciate you or anyone else are trying to answer what is someone else's comment.

Frankly the spectral curve of this film doesn't seem significantly different from a few others such as HP5+ but if it does lack a significant amount of red sensitivity then what practical differences might I see between a print of the same scene from a Foma neg compared to a HP5+ neg?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Hi Pentaxuser,

I don't understand the comment on red sensitivity. As i understand it by looking at the datasheets and by my particular experience with the film, this film has slightly more red sensitivityand extended red sensitivity than usual.

As for the connection between spectral sentitivity of the film and film speed, i would guess there is a connection: A normal silver halide emulsion is blue-sensitive only. The manufacturer then adds sensitizers that make it also sensitive to other colors. I would understand that this means that for practical purposes (i.e. daylight shooting) this would increase the speed of the film, but I'm not sure. Photo Engineer (PE) surely has an answer.

In any case, my impression of both Fomas (100, 400) is that they do have red sensitivity, slightly pronounced. Last print i had from Foma 400 (last week) looked slightly as if the take was shot with a yellow filter. Which is totally OK with me.