Patrick- thank you for the info as your images make it tempting to want to try this....congrats on being at Photokina as u deserve it!!
Best, Peter
Best, Peter
New Direct Positive paper from Ilford Harman
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PLynch,
the images look great! Are you pre-exposing the paper like Harman recommends, or is this "straight"? I just ordererd a few packs of the RC paper, and I will try it with lith developer when time permits. The whole idea of making one of a kind paper prints is really exiting. I might even try it in my wet plate camera, when it's too cold to use WP chemistry outside in Sweden. Which will be very soon...
the images look great! Are you pre-exposing the paper like Harman recommends, or is this "straight"? I just ordererd a few packs of the RC paper, and I will try it with lith developer when time permits. The whole idea of making one of a kind paper prints is really exiting. I might even try it in my wet plate camera, when it's too cold to use WP chemistry outside in Sweden. Which will be very soon...
Remember that the pre-exposure for this paper can also be done in-camera as described in AA's book The Negative.
I have not pre flashed the paper yet. I have never liked the results when experimenting with this in the past. Although it has been a number of years. I have read The Camera, The Negative and The Print. All excellent. I have also recently become aware of another book that looks to be an excellent source of information. Way Beyond Monochrome.
Just 4 more weeks until the next edition is out. Can't wait to see it in print again!
I love the cover. Very well done.
I little bird told me that Ilford has offered to frame your prints for Photokina. You'll be famous. Please remember us little folk when you get there.
Yes! that is so great. Thanks for all your help. If I ever get there I'm glad you'll be there already to greet me.
Speaking of being there. Your going to be at Photokina demonstrating right? Take pictures....
Speaking of being there. Your going to be at Photokina demonstrating right? Take pictures....
Oh yes, I'll be there.
Has anyone dry mounted the Harman fibre base direct positive yet? Can't seem to get it to stick to matte board when anything else will.
Update on mounting.
Used colourmount. 250º for 1:45. Seemed a bit long and hot but I don't have very much experience with dry mounting fibre paper. I don't think I would try that time and temp on RC. The prints mounted fine once we cranked everything up a bit. Also, I am using 6-ply board. Not sure how much a difference that makes. If anyone else mounts this paper I would like to know how it goes for you.
I think it looks great dry mounted and matted with 6-ply cotton board.
Used colourmount. 250º for 1:45. Seemed a bit long and hot but I don't have very much experience with dry mounting fibre paper. I don't think I would try that time and temp on RC. The prints mounted fine once we cranked everything up a bit. Also, I am using 6-ply board. Not sure how much a difference that makes. If anyone else mounts this paper I would like to know how it goes for you.
I think it looks great dry mounted and matted with 6-ply cotton board.
Mounted the rest of my prints today. Clearly I just needed some experience with doing this after NOT for many years. Nothing cooked at 250º and they came out nice. Shipped six out for PHOTOKINA! on Saturday. Wish I could go but I am happy my prints are making it.
OK that's three in a row. It's Someone else s turn now.
OK that's three in a row. It's Someone else s turn now.
Pat
Make sure to ask for a picture of your pictures!
Make sure to ask for a picture of your pictures!
Good idea,
Ralph, While your at Photokina would you be able to take a picture of my pictures to send me?
Thanks
Ralph, While your at Photokina would you be able to take a picture of my pictures to send me?
Thanks
I want this paper so bad!
This is SO great! I'm teaching a pinhole class to some young people later this year and this paper is going to be pretty spectacular!
This is SO great! I'm teaching a pinhole class to some young people later this year and this paper is going to be pretty spectacular!
Too big!!!
I just tried to load a few 4x5 inch film holders with this paper and it does not fit. The paper is about 1,5 millimeter larger on both sides compared to 4x5 inch film.
I thought I was going crazy so I tried it in another holder: same problem. I've compared the 4x5 inch Harman DPP to both Kodak 160NC 4x5 inch film and Efke 4x5 inch film (both of which fit perfectly in all my holders) and the DPP is larger on both sides.
Have I received a faulty batch? Is this paper not supposed to fit in a regular 4x5 inch holder?
Thanks!
I just tried to load a few 4x5 inch film holders with this paper and it does not fit. The paper is about 1,5 millimeter larger on both sides compared to 4x5 inch film.
I thought I was going crazy so I tried it in another holder: same problem. I've compared the 4x5 inch Harman DPP to both Kodak 160NC 4x5 inch film and Efke 4x5 inch film (both of which fit perfectly in all my holders) and the DPP is larger on both sides.
Have I received a faulty batch? Is this paper not supposed to fit in a regular 4x5 inch holder?
Thanks!
Argh... I hear you. They make a 4x5 size. Sadly 4x5 film holders are not 4x5.
They also make a 3.9X4.9 size. This is what you need to fit the 4x5 film holders.
If you have a red safelight you could trim it down in the darkroom fairly easy. Just take care not to scratch them.
They also make a 3.9X4.9 size. This is what you need to fit the 4x5 film holders.
If you have a red safelight you could trim it down in the darkroom fairly easy. Just take care not to scratch them.
I guess that's true.
Very clever of the Ilford/Harman people to suddenly change the nomenclature of their own products. ALL 4x5 inch FILM on their site is labelled: 4x5 inch / 10.2 x 12.7 cm. This film fits in a 4x5 inch holder. The pack of DPP I have here says "4x5 inch / 10.2 x 12.7 cm". This is BIGGER than the "other" 4x5 inches Ilford have.
What is the point of even making a 4x5 inch size that does NOT fit in 4x5 in holder? And what is the point of making a 3.9x4.9 size only in FIBER? Why is there NO INFO on the Ilford photo site mentioning this difference in size?
I was very much looking forward to using this interesting and innovative product, but this pisses me off.
What's next? 120-film that only fits Hasselblad cameras?
Very clever of the Ilford/Harman people to suddenly change the nomenclature of their own products. ALL 4x5 inch FILM on their site is labelled: 4x5 inch / 10.2 x 12.7 cm. This film fits in a 4x5 inch holder. The pack of DPP I have here says "4x5 inch / 10.2 x 12.7 cm". This is BIGGER than the "other" 4x5 inches Ilford have.
What is the point of even making a 4x5 inch size that does NOT fit in 4x5 in holder? And what is the point of making a 3.9x4.9 size only in FIBER? Why is there NO INFO on the Ilford photo site mentioning this difference in size?
I was very much looking forward to using this interesting and innovative product, but this pisses me off.
What's next? 120-film that only fits Hasselblad cameras?
I think we need Ilford to explain this!
Did they really change nomenclature?
-) Films (intended for use in holders) are designated with nominal size
-) Papers are designated with true size
With this paper being inbetween in use that system is confusing (and would need clarifiication).
I just got two packs of 4x5 and 8x10 in the post. Will the 8x10 fit the 8x10 film holders?
It would be pretty fantastic if all these papers failed to fit their designated holders. Perhaps Ilford could offer a custom made cutting machine that crops that extra 1.5 mm? 
I posted this in the Paper Positives group but because there is only 6 people in the group (HINT) I am posting again here.
I received a very exciting e-mail from Harman today.
The direct positive paper has been being made in standard paper sizes. Unfortunately this is taking some photographers buy surprise. Being a direct positive paper it may very well end up in a film back and not an enlarger easel. The film back sizes are a bit smaller than standard paper sizes. Harman has recognized this and is modifying the product size.
Here is a section from the e-maili I received.
We have become increasingly aware since the launch of this product that we have rather perplexed the Analogue Photographic Community by producing 4 x 5" Direct Positive Paper at 'true' size, ie. paper ISO standards. We have therefore taken the decision to change ALL the sizes of Direct Positive Paper to ISO standard sheet film sizes for future production batches - this will effectively reduce the size of the paper very slightly in both dimensions.
It will take a little time for this adjustment to filter through to all the sizes in the range, however new stocks of 4 x 5" RC paper are in production as we speak and so all future customer orders will be supplied with resized paper. We will apply this change to all sizes of Direct Positive Paper and will refer to the 'nominal' size in inches and show the actual metric size alongside. We will of course clearly communicate the change on our websites
From what I understand DP paper should also be available for US dealers to obtain. So hopefully soon we will be able to order from B&H or your other favorite dealer.
I received a very exciting e-mail from Harman today.
The direct positive paper has been being made in standard paper sizes. Unfortunately this is taking some photographers buy surprise. Being a direct positive paper it may very well end up in a film back and not an enlarger easel. The film back sizes are a bit smaller than standard paper sizes. Harman has recognized this and is modifying the product size.
Here is a section from the e-maili I received.
We have become increasingly aware since the launch of this product that we have rather perplexed the Analogue Photographic Community by producing 4 x 5" Direct Positive Paper at 'true' size, ie. paper ISO standards. We have therefore taken the decision to change ALL the sizes of Direct Positive Paper to ISO standard sheet film sizes for future production batches - this will effectively reduce the size of the paper very slightly in both dimensions.
It will take a little time for this adjustment to filter through to all the sizes in the range, however new stocks of 4 x 5" RC paper are in production as we speak and so all future customer orders will be supplied with resized paper. We will apply this change to all sizes of Direct Positive Paper and will refer to the 'nominal' size in inches and show the actual metric size alongside. We will of course clearly communicate the change on our websites
From what I understand DP paper should also be available for US dealers to obtain. So hopefully soon we will be able to order from B&H or your other favorite dealer.
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