New Dektol looks like root beer

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

Hello, all.

I mixed up a batch of Dektol yesterday and immediately noticed that the power didn't look right. It was tan colored. When I started dissolving it in warm (100F) water, something was seriously wrong. The color quickly became very dark brown and there was a foam froth. The package was marked with a 2022-11 expiration date and I had just received it from Adorama in February 2020. The package was not exposed to any extreme conditions.

Since I'd never seen that happen before, I figured it was a bad package. So, I opened another package (same expiration date) and got the same result. I've been mixing Dektol in this house for 34 years with no problem. Same bottle, same tap water, same temp, etc.

This is the first batch of Dektol I've ever made from the new cheaper non-foil bag and I think the product was bad. Coincidentally, every supplier seems to have Dektol on backorder which makes me think they have purged inventory.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced problems.using Dektol in the new non-foil packages. I attached a couple pictures. I've searched the web, but have not found anything like this aside from forum posts from the early 2000s. I really don't want to switch to a PQ developer (liquid or powder), which means Dektol is it unless I want to mix my own, which is what I plan to do in the near term. I emailed Kodak and tweeted to their twitter account, and am waiting to see if they will respond.

David Brown · Apr 15, 2020

It seems that this has come up before, but I just searched and didn't come up with much. As I recall, most said that the new stuff, although brown, still worked just fine. Maybe. I know i would not care for it.

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2020

Hi Dave
I had a similar problem
what waS your last photography related purchase?
but it was an old bag and it was a complete bummer.
I ended up buying HQ from art craft so I can make my own

NB23 · Apr 15, 2020

Kodak is getting ridiculous. I thought they reached rock bottom 20 years ago, and yet they keep on going lower and lower. A lot of People will never know how efficient and absolutely mind blowing avant-garde that company once was. Run by geniuses, back then. It was such a glorious company.

Although this dektol might still work properly, I cannot fathom why Kodak had to change packaging from an already SUPER cheap cost-saving packaging, that even then was a downgrade from a downgrade from a downgrade. What’s next?

iakustov · Apr 15, 2020

I have not used this newly packaged Dektol, but this is how my stock D72 looks like after a week or so, I always discard it and never bother, because it is so cheap to mix..

BradS · Apr 15, 2020

That does not looks good....might work fine but, wow! not confidence inspiring.

MattKing · Apr 15, 2020

Don't worry about it.
From Kodak Alaris' website:
Update: KODAK PROFESSIONAL DEKTOL Developer / Packet to make 1 gal (CAT# 516 0270)

Recent batches of DEKTOL with date codes of August 2019 or later have been coming out darker than normal when mixed.
This is due to a non-photo active impurity. This has no impact on product performance.
We are working with our manufacturer to quickly bring the color back to its normal neutral appearance.

Here is the link to the "Chemicals" page that includes that info: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/chem-tech-info

images39 · Apr 15, 2020

MattKing said:
Don't worry about it.
From Kodak Alaris' website:
Update: KODAK PROFESSIONAL DEKTOL Developer / Packet to make 1 gal (CAT# 516 0270)

Recent batches of DEKTOL with date codes of August 2019 or later have been coming out darker than normal when mixed.
This is due to a non-photo active impurity. This has no impact on product performance.
We are working with our manufacturer to quickly bring the color back to its normal neutral appearance.

Here is the link to the "Chemicals" page that includes that info: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/chem-tech-info

Thanks for pointing this out. Dektol is my developer of choice, and I've got some on backorder, so it's good to be aware of what's going on with it.

Dale

pentaxuser · Apr 15, 2020

Never mind about Dektol, what's root beer? Sounds like stuff to be avoided if it is a comparator with what was wrongly assumed to be faulty Dektol

pentaxuser

Anon Ymous · Apr 15, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Never mind about Dektol, what's root beer? Sounds like stuff to be avoided if it is a comparator with what was wrongly assumed to be faulty Dektol

pentaxuser

So, you'd also avoid brown ale or stout?

Doremus Scudder · Apr 15, 2020

It seems as if Kodak chemicals are becoming increasingly unreliable. You may want to just mix your own. It's easy and won't turn out brown and frothy. I mix both D-72 (Dektol without the fancy sequestering agents, etc. that allow it to be packaged in one bag) and ID-62. If you like Dektol, D-72 performs identically. I mix down-and-dirty with measuring spoons.

Disclaimer: I own triple-beam balance scales and digital scales accurate to .01g. The spoon recipe works just fine for mixing this developer and is faster.

My D-72 spoon recipe

Water (125°F/52°C) ----------- 750.0 ml
(pinch of sodium sulfite before adding the Metol)
Metol ------------------------------- 1 tsp
Sodium Sulfite, anhy. -------- 2 Tbsp
Hydroquinone ------------------- 1 Tbsp + 1 tsp
Sodium Carbonate, mono. - 4 1/2 Tbsp.
Potassium Bromide ---------- 1/2 tsp or 20ml 10% stock solution
Water to make ----------------- 1 liter

Dilute 1+2 for normal use.

This is EZPZ and cheaper than Dektol once you've made the initial investment in stock chemicals. Often I'll just mix a two-liter batch of working solution by using 2/3 of the above measurements and bypass the stock solution.

Best,

Doremus

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

MattKing said:
Don't worry about it.
From Kodak Alaris' website:
Update: KODAK PROFESSIONAL DEKTOL Developer / Packet to make 1 gal (CAT# 516 0270)

Recent batches of DEKTOL with date codes of August 2019 or later have been coming out darker than normal when mixed.
This is due to a non-photo active impurity...

Thanks for solving the mystery, Matt. For all the searching I did, I never saw that and that's exactly what I needed to know. Unfortunately, because of the horrid color, I already discarded both batches of Dektol that I mixed up and have no more left. On the other hand, it gives me an excuse to try D72.

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
It seems as if Kodak chemicals are becoming increasingly unreliable. You may want to just mix your own. It's easy and won't turn out brown and frothy. I mix both D-72 (Dektol without the fancy sequestering agents, etc. that allow it to be packaged in one bag) and ID-62. If you like Dektol, D-72 performs identically. I mix down-and-dirty with measuring spoons.

Disclaimer: I own triple-beam balance scales and digital scales accurate to .01g. The spoon recipe works just fine for mixing this developer and is faster.

My D-72 spoon recipe

Water (125°F/52°C) ----------- 750.0 ml
(pinch of sodium sulfite before adding the Metol)
Metol ------------------------------- 1 tsp
Sodium Sulfite, anhy. -------- 2 Tbsp
Hydroquinone ------------------- 1 Tbsp + 1 tsp
Sodium Carbonate, mono. - 4 1/2 Tbsp.
Potassium Bromide ---------- 1/2 tsp or 20ml 10% stock solution
Water to make ----------------- 1 liter

Dilute 1+2 for normal use.

This is EZPZ and cheaper than Dektol once you've made the initial investment in stock chemicals. Often I'll just mix a two-liter batch of working solution by using 2/3 of the above measurements and bypass the stock solution.

Best,

Doremus

I agree, Doremus. One has to wonder how such a defective product could pass quality control checks. Of course, many companies now seem to think the consumer *is* part of their quality control team. Their attitude is, "Ship it and see if the customers complain. If they don't, then it's good." I already checked with Anchell's Cookbook to make sure I had the ingredients. I should be good for several batches.

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Never mind about Dektol, what's root beer? Sounds like stuff to be avoided if it is a comparator with what was wrongly assumed to be faulty Dektol

pentaxuser

LOL! Point well taken.

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

NB23 said:
Kodak is getting ridiculous. I thought they reached rock bottom 20 years ago, and yet they keep on going lower and lower. A lot of People will never know how efficient and absolutely mind blowing avant-garde that company once was. Run by geniuses, back then. It was such a glorious company.

Although this dektol might still work properly, I cannot fathom why Kodak had to change packaging from an already SUPER cheap cost-saving packaging, that even then was a downgrade from a downgrade from a downgrade. What’s next?

My feeling exactly. While looking for a Dektol substitute, I noticed that almost everyone uses foil packaging for powdered chemicals. Are we now to believe that Kodak, once a quality icon is now the leading corner-cutting photo materials supplier? So they switched to poly bags and simply stamped an expiration date on it to compensate for the fact that the contents of the package will now deteriorate after a few years?

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

On a side note, I noticed that @KodakProFilmBiz posted on Twitter in November that they are getting a lot of complaints about Xtol failure on product date coded 2019/08/09. I'm pretty certain that the failed Xtol uses the new poly pouch packaging because I have Xtol from around the same time period.

Also, I contacted Kodak about the fact that I had shot ten rolls of 35mm TMax 400 on a trip to Italy in Oct 2019 that *all* had some kind of tooling marks on the last frame. I alternated shooting TMax with Ilford HP5+ and none of the HP5+ showed any problems. Everything else about the film was fine, so it's hardly a crisis, but cases like this diminish my regard for Kodak and I doubt that I am alone. I am now afraid to use two Kodak products (Dektol and Xtol) that have been staples of my darkroom inventory for decades.

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

Thanks to all who took the time to reply to this issue. Your comments were greatly appreciated. You guys are the best.

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

jnantz said:
Hi Dave
I had a similar problem
what waS your last photography related purchase?
but it was an old bag and it was a complete bummer.
I ended up buying HQ from art craft so I can make my own

Yuk! That was some ugly stuff!

MattKing · Apr 15, 2020

FWIW, I expect this is another piece of the fallout from Tetenal going into receivership and Kodak Alaris responding by making the decision to move/decentralize manufacture of their line of photo-chemicals.
I'll agree that if Kodak Alaris had stayed with Tetenal, this probably would not have happened.
I wonder if this is one of the products that is now being made again in the USA instead of the EU?

Adrian Bacon · Apr 15, 2020

Dave Krueger said:
Hello, all.

I mixed up a batch of Dektol yesterday and immediately noticed that the power didn't look right. It was tan colored. When I started dissolving it in warm (100F) water, something was seriously wrong. The color quickly became very dark brown and there was a foam froth. The package was marked with a 2022-11 expiration date and I had just received it from Adorama in February 2020. The package was not exposed to any extreme conditions.

Since I'd never seen that happen before, I figured it was a bad package. So, I opened another package (same expiration date) and got the same result. I've been mixing Dektol in this house for 34 years with no problem. Same bottle, same tap water, same temp, etc.

This is the first batch of Dektol I've ever made from the new cheaper non-foil bag and I think the product was bad. Coincidentally, every supplier seems to have Dektol on backorder which makes me think they have purged inventory.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced problems.using Dektol in the new non-foil packages. I attached a couple pictures. I've searched the web, but have not found anything like this aside from forum posts from the early 2000s. I really don't want to switch to a PQ developer (liquid or powder), which means Dektol is it unless I want to mix my own, which is what I plan to do in the near term. I emailed Kodak and tweeted to their twitter account, and am waiting to see if they will respond.

just out of curiosity, despite how it looks, does it work?

Dave Krueger · Apr 15, 2020

Adrian Bacon said:
just out of curiosity, despite how it looks, does it work?

I didn't find out. I threw it out. While I don't have a problem using old materials on occasion, this struck me as being so obviously defective that I didn't feel comfortable using it.

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2020

hi Adrian -- mine did not work very well. thankfully the person who sold it to me gave me a refund. ...
John

NB23 · Apr 16, 2020

Dave Krueger said:
On a side note, I noticed that @KodakProFilmBiz posted on Twitter in November that they are getting a lot of complaints about Xtol failure on product date coded 2019/08/09. I'm pretty certain that the failed Xtol uses the new poly pouch packaging because I have Xtol from around the same time period.

Also, I contacted Kodak about the fact that I had shot ten rolls of 35mm TMax 400 on a trip to Italy in Oct 2019 that *all* had some kind of tooling marks on the last frame. I alternated shooting TMax with Ilford HP5+ and none of the HP5+ showed any problems. Everything else about the film was fine, so it's hardly a crisis, but cases like this diminish my regard for Kodak and I doubt that I am alone. I am now afraid to use two Kodak products (Dektol and Xtol) that have been staples of my darkroom inventory for decades.

Exactly.

when they changed bags, a few months ago, I purchased fifteen bags of D76 in the “old” bag. There was no way I would be buying the new stuff.

MattKing · Apr 16, 2020

NB23 said:
Exactly.

when they changed bags, a few months ago, I purchased fifteen bags of D76 in the “old” bag. There was no way I would be buying the new stuff.

They didn't change bags. They changed manufacturers entirely - because the old manufacturer nearly disappeared!

NB23 · Apr 16, 2020

MattKing said:
They didn't change bags. They changed manufacturers entirely - because the old manufacturer nearly disappeared!

well, when I saw the change of bags, I knew it was time to stock up. I Also bought 3 bottles of old
HC-110.

As a side note: Thanks to Ilford!

New Dektol looks like root beer

Dave Krueger

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