New CatLabs Color 120 Film

[Helge]

It’s with 90% certainty Aerocolor.
Such a lot of similarities with other descriptions of the same film.

Anyone know of an EU distributor of Catlabs stuff?

 

[brbo]

Wonder how "almost colourless base" translates in reversal.

​

Kodak AEROCOLOR as Slide Film | SantaColor 100

 

[Agulliver]

As far as I am concerned, clear and colourless are two completely separate concepts. Clear means transparent, not obscured....a material can be any colour that permits light to be transmitted and is clear. For example, an 85 filter should be clear.

Colourless means just that....like a standard window.

I would jolly well hope that film base is clear and not nearly clear. As for whether a colourless base means easier scanning, that depends if one is using decent software or just poking a phone at a negative on a light box. There's plenty of software, free and cheap, that will invert a standard C41 masked film.

 

[faberryman]

Kodak AEROCOLOR as Slide Film | SantaColor 100

What I took away from this video is that the guy shoots a Titanium "Leather Daddy" Leica M6 with a Summicron of indeterminate focal length, and is obsessed with defecation and its aftermath. About the film? It looks a little washed out, but that's okay with me. It is a welcome relief from all the super saturated stuff one frequently sees. Could be an exposure issue. That sometimes happens when you shoot a Titanium "Leather Daddy" Leica M6 with a Summicron of indeterminate focal length.

Here's a link to the Kodak Aerocolor IV Negative Film 2460 Technical Data Sheet. Of special interest is the section titled Exposure.

https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Advanced-Materials/KODAK-AEROCOLOR-III-Negative-Film-2460-datasheet.pdf

Keep in mind that it is difficult to know a lot about what a film looks like from an image on the internet. Most of the time you don't know what scanner the photographer used, what scanning software he used, what settings in the scanning software he used, and what adjustments, if any, he made to the scanned image in his digital image editing software before he posted the image.

 

[koraks]

As for whether a colourless base means easier scanning

I don't see how it does. The base as such doesn't influence the gamma of the color channels. This gamma is typically quite low on color negative films to begin with, so a relative high amount of amplification of the signal (either analog or in the digital path) is required to get a full-range digital representation. This means the s/n-ratio issues are inherent.

Dealing with the orange mask (or lack thereof) is just a matter of curves/levels adjustment and filtering it out.

Of course, the one thing that a film with a clear mask will never be able to do is correct for the inherent imperfections of the color dyes, which is why C41 film (and ECN2 for that matter) has an orange mask to begin with, and part of that mask in in fact image-dependent.

So 'easier to scan' - well, not from a technical point of view. Perhaps from a user-point of view, given very specific hardware and software limitations.
Technically speaking, a maskless color negative film can't be quite as good as one with a regular orange mask. I doubt anyone really cares about this today, however.

I'd be curious to see how it would print optically. I suspect it would have some 'interesting' peculiarities that might be exploited creatively. Would be a fun experiment. Too bad that group buy for Aerocolor in sheet format attempted recently didn't fly.

 

[mshchem]

Why? 15 year old surplus. Hopefully very profitable (a fool and hid money are soon parted). Original application was for direct evaluation of the negative, not for printing or inversion. Gives unpredictable weird colors, OK?

Ektar... very good!!

 

[warden]

Ektar... very good!!

And basically the same price at least in the US.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Dealing with the orange mask (or lack thereof) is just a matter of curves/levels adjustment and filtering it out.

Not the case. If that were so Kodak, Ansco, Agfa ... and a long list of others would not have continued to use the orange base.

Of course, the one thing that a film with a clear mask will never be able to do is correct for the inherent imperfections of the color dyes, which is why C41 film (and ECN2 for that matter) has an orange mask to begin with, and part of that mask in in fact image-dependent.

Exactly the point.

 

[MattKing]

Not the case. If that were so Kodak, Ansco, Agfa ... and a long list of others would not have continued to use the orange base.

You misunderstand Sirius.
The orange mask is technically advantageous - thus its continued use. Dealing with its additional consequences is straightforward for most end users.
It occurs to me that if the intention is that this film also be used for transparencies using some form of reversal processing, then having a clear and colourless base is advantageous.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You misunderstand Sirius.
The orange mask is technically advantageous - thus its continued use. Dealing with its additional consequences is straightforward for most end users.
It occurs to me that if the intention is that this film also be used for transparencies using some form of reversal processing, then having a clear and colourless base is advantageous.

I agree that the clear base is needed for slides, but not so great for a negative film and making prints.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I agree that the clear base is needed for slides, but not so great for a negative film and making prints.

How so? Wouldn't a clear base be advantageous for printing?

 

[brbo]

As far as I am concerned, clear and colourless are two completely separate concepts. Clear means transparent, not obscured....a material can be any colour that permits light to be transmitted and is clear. For example, an 85 filter should be clear.

Is ND 0.3 filter clear?

 

[Sirius Glass]

How so? Wouldn't a clear base be advantageous for printing?

No. See my comments above about the need for the orange mask for the optimum color balance.

 

[koraks]

Wouldn't a clear base be advantageous for printing?

No, the orange mask compensates for imperfections in the absorption of the different dyes. It used to be crucial for accurate color reproduction. It's a bit of a moot point now since color papers are engineered for digital and the exact match between RA4 paper and C41 film has effectively been broken some 2 decades ago.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Shows what I know about colour printing... squat

 

[koraks]

Many people who wet print color don't know this, or only vaguely!

 

[BrianShaw]

Why? 15 year old surplus. Hopefully very profitable (a fool and hid money are soon parted). Original application was for direct evaluation of the negative, not for printing or inversion. Gives unpredictable weird colors, OK?

Perhaps it should have labeled the film “outdated” and doubled the price! Outdated fil seems to be in high demand.

 

[0x001688936CA08]

Not as good as the products from Kodak, Fuji, and in the past Agfa. Without the orange background, correct color reproduction cannot be completely done. This has been known for decades, they are blowing smoke up your noses.

I mean, this is literally a light-sensitive emulsion on a film substrate... that sounds like "film" to me. Not to mention it's likely a Kodak product.

 

[MCB18]

This is almost certainly Aerocolor. Kodak does sell fresh stock in both 35mm and 61.5mm rolls, and they are probably just getting it packaged at the same place the Aviphot is getting packaged. Cool to have this stock in 120, unfortunately I won’t be buying it due to the owner’s… objectionable behavior is a nice way to put it.

 

[mshchem]

Perhaps it should have labeled the film “outdated” and doubled the price! Outdated fil seems to be in high demand.

If you're looking for something different this is it. If it wasn't so pricey I would be trying this with E6. Nothing wrong with playing around with stuff like this, just don't expect normal results.

 

[MCB18]

15 year old surplus. Hopefully very profitable (a fool and hid money are soon parted). Original application was for direct evaluation of the negative, not for printing or inversion. Gives unpredictable weird colors, OK?

This is probably fresh stock, Kodak sells it by the master roll for these smaller formats.

Despite me actively trying, I have never been able to find a good source of even 1 roll of old Kodak or agfa areal color film, I would love to know where he found the stuff if it was expired, not that he would tell us…

 

[faberryman]

For what it's worth, here is a recent review of SantaColor 100 at Analog Cafe which states Kodak continues to make Aerocolor film.

Kodak Aerocolor IV Film Review

A fine-grained medium contrast colour-negative film with a clear base, available in 35mm only.

www.analog.cafe

Please note the review also identifies Popho Luminar 100, Flic Film Electra 100, and Film Washi X as also being respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV.

 

[Oldwino]

For what it's worth, here is a recent review of SantaColor 100 at Analog Cafe which states Kodak continues to make Aerocolor film.

Kodak Aerocolor IV Film Review

A fine-grained medium contrast colour-negative film with a clear base, available in 35mm only.

www.analog.cafe

Please note the review also identifies Popho Luminar 100, Flic Film Electra 100, and Film Washi X as also being respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV.

Yup, the film (Aerocolor) is still current in the Kodak catalogue. I've seen the 35mm versions - I have a few rolls of the Luminar, but have't developed any yet - but I have not yet seen it available in 120. Until now.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I have shot 3 rolls of Popho Luminar 100, a.k.a. Aerocolor, and have gotten good results.
One thing to be concerned about with Aerocolor is a very strong tendency for 'light piping'...

 

[mshchem]

Yup, the film (Aerocolor) is still current in the Kodak catalogue. I've seen the 35mm versions - I have a few rolls of the Luminar, but have't developed any yet - but I have not yet seen it available in 120. Until now.

I don't know. I think it's just a dead end.