New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

Arcadia4 · Mar 8, 2020

Geneva airport has the new scanners. I can see the main benefit for airports as ‘everything is left in the bag’ which speeds up the check process and reduces passenger stress. I wasn’t carrying film so can't report on their willingness to hand inspect.

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2020

Arcadia4 said:
Geneva airport has the new scanners..

Everywhere will be using the new harmful to film scanners soon and maybe sooner than you'd think as that is the norm for new technology's adoption speed. I have seen nothing yet that indicates that any of the film companies have had any success in whatever lobbying is being done to make hand inspections mandatory on request

Change.org helps organise campaigns by soliciting signatures - at least in the U.K. it does. I wonder how many signatures such a campaign for change would get in the U.K. and rest of Europe. The number of signatures might be a good indication of how big the film revival is

I still wonder if it is big enough to really make a difference in matters such as airport scanners and the need for hand inspections

Problem is that if legislation is required and I suspect it might be that most governments have a little more to engage their attention with the coronavirus, a new EU/U.K. deal etc when compared to CT scanners in the coming months

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Mar 8, 2020

Are you going to start a change.com petition... or just wondering “out loud “?

it would be interesting to see how successful that might be!

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2020

BrianShaw said:
Are you going to start a change.com petition... or just wondering “out loud “?

it would be interesting to see how successful that might be!

In relation to your question it's the latter, Brian

pentaxuser

mooseontheloose · Mar 11, 2020

Well I finally returned to Japan today after a month-long trip. Did not encounter any of these scanners (I think) in the multiple airports I went through in Paris, Cairo, Luxor, Khartoum, Dubai, or Tallinn. But as I went to pick up my bag from the luggage carousel at KIX (Kansai Int'l Airport) I noticed right away that they had one of the new scanners, set up to scan bags going through customs (if needed). I don't know if they are just rolling them out for that purpose, or if they are part of a larger scheme to replace the older xray machines, but either way it's concerning. I certainly didn't see any when I went through regular screening a month ago. I know that Fujifilm has put a notice out like Kodak and Ilford, but I hope they put some pressure on Japanese airports to continue to allow for hand inspections of film.

AgX · Mar 12, 2020

mooseontheloose said:
I noticed right away that they had one of the new scanners,... I certainly didn't see any when I went through regular screening a month ago.

That is why at the beginnig of this thread I said that it would make no sense making up a list with airports which have and which doesn't, as alreaydy during ones trip that might change and and all good planning would be futile.

koraks · Mar 12, 2020

mooseontheloose said:
I don't know if they are just rolling them out for that purpose, or if they are part of a larger scheme to replace the older xray machines

This is about replacing existing xray equipment with ct, and the approach just about every larger airport takes is to start with a handful of lines with the new machines to come to grips with them and then do a wide-scale roll-out. In a few years' time, the old xray machines will be limited to small, local airports.

The best we can do as film photographers, in my opinion, is to print the Kodak warning labels and put them inside a bag with the film, consistently ask for hand inspection when traveling with film, and explaining why this is a necessity. My guess is that most airports will adjust their routines to allow for hand inspection in due course, but we need to gently convince them of the necessity to do so in the meantime.

Yes, I can hear some people say that it's not going to work, that the problem isn't big enough for authorities to care about etc. But even if that turns out the case, the only thing we can do is try. We are all ambassadors of the film photography community. All we can (and IMO should) do is spread our message.

bernard_L · Mar 12, 2020

Agulliver said:
worst airport, you've clearly never flown to CVG

You mean Cape Vogel Airport in Papua New Guinea ??

Agulliver · Mar 12, 2020

bernard_L said:
You mean Cape Vogel Airport in Papua New Guinea ??

IATA code CVG....Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport.

Hopefully it's changed since I last went there around a decade ago but I used it extensively between 1997 and 2011. It was a wholly wretched place where one could land, go through passport inspection and customs....recheck one's bag and check in for a connecting flight without once passing a window. Staff were surly if not downright rude, with security staff in particular having some bizarre attitude towards any electronics in cabin baggage. That was the only airport where I had to explain what a personal DVD player was, upon which the security bod showed it to his colleagues "Hey look at this neat thing.". They took exception to my Palm Pilot, cameras of course, mini-disc player (they'd never seen one of those either and were very suspicious). The corridors were dreary as well as being hot and humid, the carpets dirty and there weren't any nice places to eat or drink...at least not in the terminals I used. I'd generally arrive from London at the Delta international terminal and go to Delta's domestic gates for onward travel. Never saw a hint of what was outside. Quite the most squalid and unpleasant airport it has ever been my displeasure to use. I switched to Atlanta for most of my US arrivals which at least has open areas, sunlight coming in and occasionally a piano player. And the security staff aren't panicked by everyday electronics.

Most curious airport is Aberdeen, South Dakota. One gate, designed very much like remote African airports. The same guy who inspects your luggage loads it onto the plane and checks your ID. Flights to one destination, MSP. The early days of XNA were interesting. I guess it opened about 20 years ago....Then known as Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport but now I believe it's Bentonville. The main purpose for it's existence is the Wal-Mart HQ nearby so it's locally known as "Wally World Airport" and I've been on flights in small planes carrying 16 people of which my wife and I were the only people not attending corporate Wal-Mart events. It used to resemble a chicken shack but they upgraded it a few years after it opened and now it's quite a nice little regional airport.

Anyway...rather irrelevant but perhaps fun!

mooseontheloose · Mar 12, 2020

koraks said:
The best we can do as film photographers, in my opinion, is to print the Kodak warning labels and put them inside a bag with the film, consistently ask for hand inspection when traveling with film, and explaining why this is a necessity. My guess is that most airports will adjust their routines to allow for hand inspection in due course, but we need to gently convince them of the necessity to do so in the meantime.

I agree with this, but have a feeling it will only work in major (tourist) areas/airports. Over the last year I've been travelling more off the beaten track (Central Asia - the 'Stans, Iraq, Sudan, etc) and let me tell you - the personnel in those airports probably never or very very rarely deal with film so are very blase about concerns and are always waving it through like it's completely fine. Most of the younger workers (under 30) have no idea what film is, so they tend to be confused as to my concerns. Printing out these labels would mean nothing to them, even if I could do it in the relevant local language. To be fair, these countries will probably be the ones that will be among the last to roll out these new scanners (if ever) but it's really concerning for me when planning new trips. Eventually I may have to go a hybrid route if I want to continue any type of photography while travelling, but it's not that appealing.

koraks · Mar 12, 2020

Yes, I follow your argument. I remain with the position that all we can do is try to spread the word, create awareness of the issue among security staff and stimulate them to sympathize with our situation.

pressureworld · Mar 22, 2020

I live in Atlanta and our airport Hartsville-Jackson now uses the new scanners. Will they damage new unused film? or only undeveloped film?

AgX · Mar 22, 2020

Any undeveloped film.

pentaxuser · Mar 22, 2020

[QUOTE="mooseontheloose, post: 2260272, member: 22095". Most of the younger workers (under 30) have no idea what film is, so they tend to be confused as to my concerns. [/QUOTE]

Refer them to Henning Serger and the film revival phenomenon

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Mar 22, 2020

Naughty boy....

mooseontheloose · Mar 23, 2020

LI've been trying make in the backlog of film I have from this, and previous trips. So far I haven't noticed any damage to the 120 film, but 35mm film shows some strange artifacts that I've never had before. For many of the 35mm rolls, there will be between 2-4 instances of a dark line running across the width of the film. Luckily it's often between frames, but when it's not not is seems to be in the middle of my favourite image on the roll. There's no rhyme and reason as to where these lines appear, but my guess is maybe the xray is penetrating the light trap and whatever is directly behind it gets the bit of fogging. Regular film seems to be worse hit than films on synthetic/polyester bases (where the fogging is limited to around the sproket holes). The worst example is on an old roll of HIE I shot - unfortunately I had a camera failure so I only ended up with 2 or 3 usable frames. The rest of the film has an undulating pattern of darker and lighter fogging, although keep in mind the entire roll is horribly fogged from age and the only reason it's not completely black is because I used HC-110 to develop it, which seems to be my only option with what's left of this film. I don't think my film passed through any new scanners, unless I missed one along the way, it could be just the total number of scans they went through that caused these problems (or one particular scanner).

koraks · Mar 23, 2020

Those artifacts along the sprocket holes really look more like a light leak to be honest.
The final image of the wide bands could be from xray origin, but it's not sure.

mooseontheloose said:
I don't think my film passed through any new scanners

Then you likely do NOT have xray damage.

I guess it's time to closely inspect your cameras, development tanks and workflow.

mooseontheloose · Mar 23, 2020

koraks said:
Those artifacts along the sprocket holes really look more like a light leak to be honest.
The final image of the wide bands could be from xray origin, but it's not sure.

Then you likely do NOT have xray damage.

I guess it's time to closely inspect your cameras, development tanks and workflow.

I originally thought light leak too, but those tend to be consistent from roll to roll, a straight black band is not what a typical light leak looks like to me. Also, rolls that I shot locally, and not overseas, do not exhibit these bands. I can’t see how a light leak from the tank would also do the same, it would fog the entire roll, wouldn’t it?

koraks · Mar 24, 2020

Ok, I aee your point. But visually and based on my experience with normal xray scanners I find your problem difficult to match with that cause.
A light leak in a tank may affect only part of a roll, but in this case I'd sooner suspect a camera issue or maybe some warped film cassettes. It may be a challenging issue to track down! I hope you find a definitive cause.

braxus · Jun 7, 2020

Has anyone had any film sent from France to North America via mail? I just purchased some 8x10 film from there and Im concerned about Xrays at the French Airports. Anyone have any issues with their scanners?

Daniela · Jun 8, 2020

destroya said:
don't know. i told my son i'd take him anywhere for a trip in April. he wants to go to paris. so i told him more than likely i cant take a camera cause they will ruin my film, and im not a huge fan of digital. so disappoint him or myself?

life is full of pointless choices.

john

I have bought film from this store right outside the Chatelet- Les Halles train station & they also develop film: https://www.nationphoto.com/en/content/7-paris-chatelet-shop
The other store I have only used for repairs, but had equipment and film for sale was this one: http://formosaflash.com/home.html
There are more options, but these are the ones I personally know and recommend.

abruzzi said:
This past summer I went through security at JFK, and the TSA was very friendly and happy to do a hand inspection of my film despite it being very busy.

that doesn’t help for anywhere else. My goal at the time was to limit the total number of X-ray scans since I know that in Russia I’d have no hope of getting a hand scan. In a month, I’m flying to Mexico, so I need to figure out how to say “no X-ray or ct scan please” in Spanish.

"Lo puede inspeccionar a mano (no por escáner), por favor?"

As for the topic at hand, I'll add this just in case anyone wonders about port scanners:
when I moved from Chicago to Paris, our things were shipped in a container and I left a bulk roll of HP5 with those things. I don't know how many times the container was scanned, but I know for sure it was scanned one additional time in the Netherlands because we were notified...and charged extra for it . I used the roll and never noticed any issues with it.

AgX · Jun 8, 2020

Daniela said:
In case anyone wonders about port scanners [container scanners]:

when I moved from Chicago to Paris, our things were shipped in a container and I left a bulk roll of HP5 with those things. I don't know how many times the container was scanned, but I know for sure it was scanned one additional time in the Netherlands because we were notified...and charged extra for it. I used the roll and never noticed any issues with it.

Interesting. Thank You.

bernard_L · Jun 9, 2020

Daniela said:
I have bought film from this store right outside the Chatelet- Les Halles train station & they also develop film: https://www.nationphoto.com/en/content/7-paris-chatelet-shop
The other store I have only used for repairs, but had equipment and film for sale was this one: http://formosaflash.com/home.html
There are more options, but these are the ones I personally know and recommend.

I second the recommendation for Nation Photo. They have another store at Place de la Nation (whence the name).
I do not second the recommendation for Formosaflash. Prices of used cameras are quite higher than in photo fairs/exchanges; OK for people who are impatient and have deep pockets. As for repairs, they have this clever(??) scheme: charge for the evaluation so they have their teeth into your wallet whatever you decide, then evaluate the repair slightly under the going price for a working camera. And I found the adjustment rings (aperture, shutter) of my GS645W so full of oil that the screws fastening the bottom of the assembly had come loose. That time around, did the repair myself.

Daniela · Jun 9, 2020

bernard_L said:
I do not second the recommendation for Formosaflash. Prices of used cameras are quite higher than in photo fairs/exchanges; OK for people who are impatient and have deep pockets. As for repairs, they have this clever(??) scheme: charge for the evaluation so they have their teeth into your wallet whatever you decide, then evaluate the repair slightly under the going price for a working camera. And I found the adjustment rings (aperture, shutter) of my GS645W so full of oil that the screws fastening the bottom of the assembly had come loose. That time around, did the repair myself.

Oh, wow, that wasn't at all my experience with their repairs, but thanks for sharing yours!
Is there any other repair service you can recommend in the Paris area?
Signed: shallow pockets

wiltw · Jun 9, 2020

pentaxuser said:
I have seen nothing yet that indicates that any of the film companies have had any success in whatever lobbying is being done to make hand inspections mandatory on request

The problem is that (before COVID-19 cut air travel to its ankles) the length of security lines was a problem. I flew from Dusseldorf to Frankfurt Airport, to connect to my flight back to the USA and almost missed my flight because of massive security lines into the International terminal. The new machines speed up things compared to the X-ray based inspection equipment, and that helps with the lines....they ain't going away. The film industry is not nearly what it was 20 years ago, when they had much more clout. And since little cinema is shot on film these days (the studios ship harddrives to movie theaters) they don't have a lot of clout either.

New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

Arcadia4

pentaxuser

BrianShaw

pentaxuser

mooseontheloose

AgX

koraks

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bernard_L

Agulliver

mooseontheloose

koraks

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pressureworld

AgX

pentaxuser

BrianShaw

mooseontheloose

koraks

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mooseontheloose

koraks

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braxus

Daniela

AgX

bernard_L

Daniela

wiltw

New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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