New: ADOX SCALA BW reversal kit

Team ADOX said:

The next batch is in preparation for the next production run. If you need new film very quickly, you can also order and use ADOX HR-50. Because we have always and right from the start honestly explained that ADOX SCALA 50 and ADOX HR-50 are technically the same film (and have also identical price). From a marketing point of view HR-50 has the negative film market as its main target market, and SCALA 50 the reversal film market.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

lantau said:

I'm at home and had a look at the kit.

Click to expand...

@lantau: Did you get a chance to use the kit?

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

@lantau: Did you get a chance to use the kit?

Click to expand...

No, I haven't. I need to find something to take pictures of, first. Perhaps this weekend something will find its way in front of my lens. I prepared my Minolta Dynax 7 for the occasion.

Team ADOX said:

Dear film photographers, our new ADOX SCALA BW reversal kit is available now via our global distributor Fotoimpex.

Click to expand...

Hello @Team ADOX: Merry Christmas and season's greetings to you!

Your kit was released more than a month ago and I'm eagerly waiting to know the feedback on the kit especially by independent users. Would appreciate if you can collect user feedback in the public domain and make them available here. Any blog postings, reviews, examples of slides would be very helpful.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

@lantau: Did you get a chance to use the kit?

Click to expand...

Raghu,

I decided not to let 2020 pass without playing with my Scala kit. I had to deliver some shopping items to my brothers famliy, who are in self quarantine. He testest positive, without symptoms, just before the holidays, but no symptoms. I and my other brother, who had direct contact, tested negative after the holidays. So no need to worry. But I took the opportunity in favourable weather to expose the last 17 frames, which came off my bulk roll of Silvermax/Scala 160. Also in the fridge I had a roll of Scala160 with identically exposed frames of a colour checker and a Fuji motion pictures test chart. This roll must have been in the fridge since Summer 2019, because I certainly didn't do it this Summer.

So todays roll of 17 and a part of the roll of identical test images went into the Jobo tank. My Scala 160 needs to be developed at 24°C. Scala 50 at 20°C. The instructions don't really say if the following steps need to be done at 24°C as sell. It does say that the rinse/wash water should be at 20°C +/- 2°.

I used my Cinestill TCS1000 (a sous vide unit, really) to get a waterbath to 24°C and used the opportunity to compare this units internal thermometer with my Kaiser precision capillary thermometer (0.2°C step scale) and the thermometer function of my (not that cheap) Greissinger pH meter, using the attached Pt1000 probe. The TCS is ahead of the Kaiser by 0.2°C and the Greissinger pH Meter is trailing the Kaiser by 0.1°C. All at a nominal 24°C. I'll look at C41 temperature at some other time.

So I did that and had dinner while the TCS1000 was humming along and eventually started the Scala process before it was getting to late on this New Years Eve. And apparently I was a bit too absent minded when I took a bottle out of the water bath and started pouring it into the tank. Turned out to be the bleach. My autopilot really thought the left bottle was the developer and ignored the dark colour of the bottle (purple permanganate bleach in a 250mL brown glass bottle). My brains higher functions kicked in again as it saw the purple liquid pouring into my tank and instinctively poured it back and immediately filled the tank with water.

Oh well. The final fare well of 2020... I immediately had to think of the SLIMT technique. I read about it, but it is a bit further down on my Have-To-Try-It-Out list. After a wash with the Jobo cascade I finally started the first development. Went through the whole process. Slipped to the left in the table with the times and bleached only for 4 Minutes (Scala 50) instead of 6 (Scala 160). No, I had no alcohol at the time!. But caught the error in time, did an extra wash and added two more minutes of bleach time...

Eventually all was done and in general the process works. But pouring out that bleach you can imagine that the film in the spiral was immersed in the bleach on one side. And I do see a sinus curve of higher density come up on the film strip, corresponding to one side of the film spiral. Yes, a few frames damaged. Others are fine. Had I done what you should do to recover from an accident like that, fill the tank with water and then drain, I think I would have created a higher base fog.

So now that you suffered through my New Years Eve adventures (are you still with me?) here comes the part you care about:

- The images look neutral black to me. Not warm. In the coming days I will do digital repro on my copy stand and try to adjust the result to correspond to the real slide. My screens are profiled (it's been a while and a recent hardware rebuild in between, and I may have to reprofile first), which means it will be up to you on your end to have a suitable viewing device that can reproduce a somewhat colour correct image file in a meaningful way.

- I gifted a Heiland b/w densitometer to myself for Xmas. Measuring the base fog of the film (zeroing the device against air) I'm getting a density of 0.09. That is the part of the film that is exposed to ambient light when loading the camera.

- Zeroing the densitometer to the clear film base I got a Dmax (over base fog) at the completely unexposed part of the films lead in of 2.15-2.17. Interesting is, that the bleach has reach parts of that area as well and managed to increase the resulting Dmax to about 2.40 (not uniform). Maybe there is a slight aging of the film (Silvermax was made many years ago) and the bleach removed the latent fog, or maybe that is another effect.

- I did put another Scala 160 under the densitometer. That one was developed in the original Agfa Scala process by Photostudio 13 in Stuttgart. I don't have the clear beginning of the film left, only a Dmax piece as part of the first strip. The lab returns the complete film, including the parts with the marks from the film clips. But I usually throw away the very ends. Zeroing the sensitometer against air again I'm reading an absolute density of 2.50ish (+/- 0.03 depending on where I measure). I measured a clear part of the film (bright, blown out sky) at 0.07. You may want to accept that as base+fog.

I'm finally going to take my first sleep of the year now...

Addendum: Because I had the Photostudio 13 developed film out, I quickly compared with the self developed film. It is not too much of a difference, but the the one developed by me with the Scala kit might be a little warmer in tone. Not a huge difference, though. Of couse it is difficult to judge without having identical subjects.

lantau said:

- Zeroing the densitometer to the clear film base I got a Dmax (over base fog) at the completely unexposed part of the films lead in of 2.15-2.17. Interesting is, that the bleach has reach parts of that area as well and managed to increase the resulting Dmax to about 2.40 (not uniform).

I did put another Scala 160 under the densitometer... Zeroing the sensitometer against air again I'm reading an absolute density of 2.50ish (+/- 0.03 depending on where I measure). I measured a clear part of the film (bright, blown out sky) at 0.07.

Click to expand...

lantau said:

the the one developed by me with the Scala kit might be a little warmer in tone. Not a huge difference, though.

Click to expand...

Interesting observations! Thanks for sharing and a very happy new year to you!

lantau said:

- Zeroing the densitometer to the clear film base I got a Dmax (over base fog) at the completely unexposed part of the films lead in of 2.15-2.17. Interesting is, that the bleach has reach parts of that area as well and managed to increase the resulting Dmax to about 2.40 (not uniform). Maybe there is a slight aging of the film (Silvermax was made many years ago) and the bleach removed the latent fog, or maybe that is another effect.

- I did put another Scala 160 under the densitometer. That one was developed in the original Agfa Scala process by Photostudio 13 in Stuttgart. I don't have the clear beginning of the film left, only a Dmax piece as part of the first strip. The lab returns the complete film, including the parts with the marks from the film clips. But I usually throw away the very ends. Zeroing the sensitometer against air again I'm reading an absolute density of 2.50ish (+/- 0.03 depending on where I measure). I measured a clear part of the film (bright, blown out sky) at 0.07. You may want to accept that as base+fog.

Click to expand...

I just grabbed a few random bits of films run by PS 13 in Scala & stuck them in my Xrite 811 - I don't want to give absolute numbers because I need to calibrate it, however, I think I'm getting about the same results as you on testing (what was at the time very fresh) Silvermax 100 leader - but also on what was rather aged Scala 200x (purchased and processed at same time). In fact the numbers are near identical - close enough to be within my margin for error. Interestingly, I found 120 CMS 20ii in Scala to be about 0.4 higher in Dmax than the Scala/ Silvermax (with a fractionally lower Dmin too) and 120 Delta 400 (with a 10 min FD in Scala) to not be doing too badly either - amazingly DMax was about 0.2 higher than the Scala/ Silvermax - though 7.5 mins was worse than Silvermax etc by about 0.1 or so (can't give a b+f here - no clear bits big enough to measure Dmin). For the record, I also stuck a piece of Fuji RVP 50 in the densitometer & it was close enough to published specs for me to feel comfortable enough sharing the above numbers.

Lachlan Young said:

I'm getting about the same results as you on testing (what was at the time very fresh) Silvermax 100 leader - but also on what was rather aged Scala 200x (purchased and processed at same time). In fact the numbers are near identical - close enough to be within my margin for error. Interestingly, I found 120 CMS 20ii in Scala to be about 0.4 higher in Dmax than the Scala/ Silvermax (with a fractionally lower Dmin too) and 120 Delta 400 (with a 10 min FD in Scala) to not be doing too badly either - amazingly DMax was about 0.2 higher than the Scala/ Silvermax - though 7.5 mins was worse than Silvermax etc by about 0.1 or so (can't give a b+f here - no clear bits big enough to measure Dmin).

Click to expand...

Useful information. Thanks for sharing.

Question for Team ADOX, how can we get this in the UK, please?

I really want to try Super 8 processing and still have Adox Super 8 film in the fridge, waiting for the new developer to arrive.

mr.datsun said:

Question for Team ADOX, how can we get this in the UK, please?
I really want to try Super 8 processing and still have Adox Super 8 film in the fridge, waiting for the new developer to arrive.

Click to expand...

You can generally order directly from Fotoimpex (a new batch is in preparation): https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-scala-kit-for-bw-slide-processing.html

So far non of our UK distribution partners has ordered the new kit. But if you are a loyal customer of a specific UK film shop you can of course ask them if they want to list the ADOX reversal kit in their programme, so that you can always buy it via their shop.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Are there any vendors in the United States carrying this reversal kit?

Thanks!

wyofilm said:

Are there any vendors in the United States carrying this reversal kit?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I'll partially answer my own question. It looks like unobtanium in the US at least for some time. The two units I ordered directly from Fotoimpex sits presumably in Frankfurt awaiting parole. I contacted Freestyle yesterday, and while they expect to have it, it won't be until sometime in April. B&H didn't carry it the last time I looked. I haven't tried other possible retailers. If someone knows of it being sold in the US please let us know. It looks like a good product.

Team ADOX said:

You can generally order directly from Fotoimpex (a new batch is in preparation): https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-scala-kit-for-bw-slide-processing.html

So far non of our UK distribution partners has ordered the new kit. But if you are a loyal customer of a specific UK film shop you can of course ask them if they want to list the ADOX reversal kit in their programme, so that you can always buy it via their shop.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Click to expand...

Thank-you. I'll keep an eye on fotoimpex's stock, and in the meantime prod some of the photography shops I buy from.
Any idea how long before the new batch is in the shops?

Team ADOX said:

You can generally order directly from Fotoimpex (a new batch is in preparation): https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-scala-kit-for-bw-slide-processing.html

So far non of our UK distribution partners has ordered the new kit. But if you are a loyal customer of a specific UK film shop you can of course ask them if they want to list the ADOX reversal kit in their programme, so that you can always buy it via their shop.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Click to expand...

I've asked AG Photographic if they will get it.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

Interestingly, the data sheet made available on FotoImpex's website makes no mention of CMS 20. It gives processing instructions for Scala 50 and Scala 160 only. If you wish to reversal process CMS 20 with the kit, you're on your own, as of now. Let's hope Adox will make the processing instructions for CMS 20 available soon.

Click to expand...

Looks like Adox has begun the tests for CMS 20 II. On Fotoimpex website, the page for the reversal kit says this now:

"The first developing time for CMS 20 II is 12 Minutes at 24°C."

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

Looks like Adox has begun the tests for CMS 20 II. On Fotoimpex website, the page for the reversal kit says this now:

"The first developing time for CMS 20 II is 12 Minutes at 24°C."

Click to expand...

For the sake of comparison, Adox's recommended first developing time for Scala films are 14 minutes @20C for Scala 50 and 15 minutes @24C for Scala 160.

Another question for Team ADOX please:

I am going to develop cinefilm. It takes 1L of solution to process one Super 8 film. That means 2 films per kit. As this will be expensive, I wonder whether the developer can be used for a second film with increased development times?

EDIT. I think it's possible my tank allows 2 rolls of Super 8 at the same time, but it would still be interesting if the mixed dev could be re-used a second time.

Also do you have recommended time for Adox Super 8 film? Is this the same film as Scala 160?
And do you have any estimate for Tri-X Super 8 film?

mr.datsun said:

Another question for Team ADOX please:
I am going to develop cinefilm. It takes 1L of solution to process one Super 8 film. That means 2 films per kit. As this will be expensive, I wonder whether the developer can be used for a second film with increased development times?
EDIT. I think it's possible my tank allows 2 rolls of Super 8 at the same time, but it would still be interesting if the mixed dev could be re-used a second time.

Click to expand...

As we have already explained earlier, the max. capacity we have stated is that for which we can guarantee consistent and optimal / perfect results.
If you want to extent it please just try and look whether the quality you get is good enough for you.

mr.datsun said:

Also do you have recommended time for Adox Super 8 film? Is this the same film as Scala 160?

Click to expand...

Yes, it is the same film.

mr.datsun said:

And do you have any estimate for Tri-X Super 8 film?

Click to expand...

No. Please do some tests by yourself. Because we cannot do such tests in the foreseeable future, because
- our tests resources are limited (as a very young and small kind of "start-up" company)
- one of our Scala experts has been out of order because of illness for a longer time
- Super 8 BW film is one of the tiniest niches in the film business
- we have to focus our limited resources on the much more important categories.
Thanks for your understanding.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

Team ADOX said:

- one of our Scala experts has been out of order because of illness for a longer time

Click to expand...

This is very sad and I hope the expert is now on his/her way back to normalcy. Wishing him/her a speedy recovery.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

Looks like Adox has begun the tests for CMS 20 II. On Fotoimpex website, the page for the reversal kit says this now:

"The first developing time for CMS 20 II is 12 Minutes at 24°C."

Click to expand...

I wonder if CHS 100 II is also being positioned? The fact it is coated on a clear base indicates ADOX may have this in mind.I t may also be that they happen to have a lot of clear base, so they decided to use it on CHS 100 II as a practical and economic matter. Echo the hopes of speedy recovery.

What is the advised EI for CMS 20 II to be processed in the Scala Reversal kit ?


Not only is the first developing time for the CMS 20 II not given in the Scala Reversal kit manual, but elsewhere, but the EI is not given at all.

AgX said:

What is the advised EI for CMS 20 II to be processed in the Scala Reversal kit ?

Click to expand...

I wish Adox provides some examples of positives obtained by reversal processing of Adox CMS 20 ii with its Scala kit on its website.

AgX said:

What is the advised EI for CMS 20 II to be processed in the Scala Reversal kit ?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if the EI can be anything from 20 to 3 depending on how much shadow detail you want as is the case with negative processing of this film.

But as in negative processing the development must be adapted to the chosen EI.