NBC short film documenting rise in film use

[Deleted member 88956]

It’s a weird market. And the company is run by BOZOS. Mix those 2 together and you have a kodak. Yes, Kodak stands for “stupid”.

Seems that way.

Sell more film, therefore increase prices, = new customers lining up and can hardly even get in the door = STUPID.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It’s a weird market. And the company is run by BOZOS. Mix those 2 together and you have a kodak. Yes, Kodak stands for “stupid”.

Typical Kodak hater who uses only hindsight. This type of poster drives people away.

 

[ic-racer]

- and some or much of the information available via YouTube or blogs isn't of a particularly high standard or is simply incorrect or misleading.

So correct. Youtube has loaded onto my browser 30 min YouTube videos with content akin to 'how to load an instamatic' or 'which button to press to take a picture.' I'd like to believe people are not that stupid. It is probably all 'clickbait' so survival of the species might still be possible....

 

[NB23]

Typical Kodak hater who uses only hindsight. This type of poster drives people away.

Really?

I am old enough (so as you, probably) to have witnessed First-hand the fall of Kodak. Every stupid move, every mind-boggling decision.

Remember when Perez restructured Kodak to make it mainly a PRINTING company? Pathetic? Yes, and that was the tip of the iceberg of pathetic decisions.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

So correct. Youtube has loaded onto my browser 30 min YouTube videos with content akin to 'how to load an instamatic' or 'which button to press to take a picture.' I'd like to believe people are not that stupid. It is probably all 'clickbait' so survival of the species might still be possible....

Yes, it is vaguely depressing this effort going into producing 'clickbait' videos. The 'why I switched to Sony / Canon / Nikon / Fuji' titles are particularly tiresome but film and darkroom content is by no means immune.

 

[138S]

It’s a weird market. And the company is run by BOZOS. Mix those 2 together and you have a kodak. Yes, Kodak stands for “stupid”.

At all we cannot say that in that way. Main problem Kodak has is that they have an exclussive distributor so they have their hands tied. We'll see what they do if one day this changes.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Typical Kodak hater who uses only hindsight. This type of poster drives people away.

Well, Kodak is no longer. Current leftovers are a bit of a corporate joke. Looking back at what Eastman was able to accomplish it is sad to see it so apparently mismanaged over the last many years. Digital does not explain it at all. They blew it probably because they did not care when they actually would have to.

There are a number of same stories relating to once respected brand that vanished because greed and short term gains were the only game played. Unfortunately, with very few exceptions, this is how businesses are run these days. I do think Bezos is going to screw it up while I believe Elon Musk is going to do just fine. Both I have a lot of respect for, although I never liked Musk as oppose to really supporting everything Bezos had done in the rise of Amazon. Now Bezos is letting a lady run his life and it appears business as well, while Musk seems to have settled down.

Possibly Kodak was setting a new standard how to mess things up to the point of self-destruction? Possibly one of those Kodak executives responsible for lack of foresight is now running seminars on "do worse-you will be better off"?

I'm not a Kodak hater, glass is mostly half full for me. Kodak has shown unable to tell an a*****e from a hole in the ground.

 

[NB23]

At all we cannot say that in that way. Main problem Kodak has is that they have an exclussive distributor so they have their hands tied. We'll see what they do if one day this changes.

They gave away all that power themselves! It was their decision.

I’m telling you: mind-boggling! The idiotic decisions they kept on making was absolutely pathetic. If you had followed, you would know.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There were many who worked at Kodak then, include myself, who constantly told management that they were messing up but they were too much into their own agendas to listen to reason and facts. Many of the senior people complained about it on a regular basis. So do not blame everyone at Kodak.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

There were many who worked at Kodak then, include myself, who constantly told management that they were messing up but they were too much into their own agendas to listen to reason and facts. Many of the senior people complained about it on a regular basis. So do not blame everyone at Kodak.

Nobody blames everyone and thanks for insider info too. As is the case in a lot of businesses, especially at corporate level, the "studs" at the top only see what they gain in their bank accounts, then move on. And of course they will not listen to anything that does not come from ... another "stud at the top". In the end they mess things up, then they end up taking another top stud position elsewhere.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I was in Kerrisdale Cameras just down the road from my house yesterday and I was very impressed with their selection of film... lots of B/W 35, 120, as well as colour. Polaroid, Instax... Nice selection of used film gear (with tons more listed on line). Five years ago, there was hardly any film on the shelf. Grabbed a few rolls of 120 JCH Street Pan 400. I want to see just how infrareddy it really is. Now if only the sun would show itself!

 

[MattKing]

Eastman Kodak and all its many international subsidiaries were structured in reliance on a model that produced and required high margins on the products they sold.
That structure attracted all sorts of investors who had no interest in the products, just the returns.
The world changed, margins shrunk, and the corporation spent years trying to find another high margin replacement for what once was.
Not surprisingly, they failed.
It would have been great if they could have rationalized their way into a smaller, leaner, more efficient producer of a small number of lower volume and lower profit photographic products, but their shareholders would never have supported that.
Instead, they hived off a number of parts, some of which became successful on their own (e.g. Eastman Chemical) after making some hard decisions.
People complain about Kodak Alaris, but at least they have managed so far to keep the film and paper and chemical business under one roof. Post bankruptcy Eastman Kodak would never have been able to do that.

 

[Nodda Duma]

I wonder how many of the young people who are discovering film are members here? This is the place to be, in my opinion. Maybe we're too old and not hip enough... but look at the knowledge here!

most of them are on instagram.

 

[138S]

They gave away all that power themselves! It was their decision.

I’m telling you: mind-boggling! The idiotic decisions they kept on making was absolutely pathetic. If you had followed, you would know.

I followed it well. (https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-raising-prices-in-2021.179226/page-2#post-2339669)

I don't agree at all about the behaviour Kodak sports, but you should understand the situation. Alaris is the exclussive distributor of Eastman Kodak products, and Alaris is owned by KPP2 that is technically bankrupted, and trying to sell those distribution rights.

Eastman Kodak is a key manufacturer for many of us, but we have the Alaris problem in the middle.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

most of them are on instagram.

Yes, just like all my students but sadly, that is a waste of time, especially if you want to learn...

 

[Nodda Duma]

Yes, just like all my students but sadly, that is a waste of time, especially if you want to learn...

I disagree... one can always learn from the perspectives of others.

 

[wiltw]

The perspective of an 'old timer'...

• Things were going along merrily in the film market until the mid -1990s when the first digital cameras came long, then hesitancy set it, "Why buy old technology, when soon enough the new technology will come along?!"
• In early 2000s, along camera 4MPixel digital cameras, finally photo images good enough to compete with film cameras
• Mid-2004, the Canon 20D came along with enough Megapixels to truly rival even the professional SLR, and the real buying francy of digital took off. Meanwhile film cameras declined in used prices, the film market shrank, film processing labs started disappearing, and the variety of film emulsions started to shrink as the volume fell off

Digital continued to boom, the film market further delined, and more film emulsions disappeared, and film processing labs disappeared too because of insufficient volume driven by pro shooters as well as the amateur market, which drove so much in-store drugstore processing machine business.

Somewhere along the line timeline, film demand started to slowly resume, as more amateur market drove a resurgence...
due to nostalgia in the old fashioned techniques and processes, and the super cheap cameras and lenses.

• Now we have fewer emulsions to choose from,
• and we have far fewer QUALITY labs with excellent process controls on their machines

I still have all my film kit, three different formats (135, medium, large format) but due to [my favorite emulsions being gone, no emulsions at all in 220 format, and very few pro quality labs] I seldom shoot film any longer!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I disagree... one can always learn from the perspectives of others.

Sorry. Confused snapchat with instagram. My students don't use instagram...They use snapchat. With the exception of one kid in my photo 11 class. He uses it AND he develops his own slide film.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

He uses it AND he develops his own slide film.

Impressed wrt to developing the slide film. I'm making my way through a Fujihunt E6 kit at the moment; a good quality product but needs some dedication to preparation and process control.

 

[MattKing]

What is disappointing is that they say they did not have the market intelligence research to see that young people were getting into it... What kind of market research were they doing all this time? Seems like none..

Quoting further from this.
I realize now that the reference in the piece was to around 2013/2014. At that time, Eastman Kodak had just come out of bankruptcy, and were no longer directly involved in still photography product marketing. They were looking to save their motion picture film business.
At the same time, Kodak Alaris was most focused on the largest part of their business - the manufacture of paper for colour photofinishers.
The still film world was in disarray.

 

[AgX]

The perspective of an 'old timer'...

• Things were going along merrily in the film market until the mid -1990s when the first digital cameras came long, then hesitancy set it

This is a misconception. Instead the peak years in film sale were those around the year 2000.

 

[138S]

Instead the peak years in film sale were those around the year 2000.

it peaked in 2003, at around 960 million rolls, today total production may be around 20 million rolls, it would be interesting to know the consumer vs pro share (gold etc vs portra etc), this would deliver the market size in $.

Well, not that bad for an "obsolete" technology sourcing enthusiats and some artists, this would yield somthinin the (say) $120 million range, still only a share may go to the manufacturers, $70million perhaps ?

Still we see very different distribution models...

IMO the best model is the Adox one, this is a quite well designed integartion going from manufacturing to retail vertical integration when possible, this model is a winner in the present context. Then we have the ilford model that has a more classic approach, basicly relying in the model that worked well for them during many decades, with the adaptations necessary. Then we have Kodak, IMO this is the worse case, they have the a burden from their past troubles, being contractually tied (exclussively) with a problematic KA corporation for the distribution. My view is that Kodak has to solve that at some point, we don't know the details of if that contract is to expire one day.

Personally, as a film lover and enthusiast, what I want (like many) is that manufacturers they all make an expansive policy to make the customer base grow, so we have film survavility assured, specially for those products requiring the most complex know-how.

 

[miha]

it peaked in 2003, at around 960 million rolls, today total production may be around 20 million rolls,

This seems plausible however any reference for these numbers would be much appreciated (otherwise it's just parroting).

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Kodak mentions that their production has doubled in the last four years, and they expect a 30% yearly increase going forward.
What is disappointing is that they say they did not have the market intelligence research to see that young people were getting into it... What kind of market research were they doing all this time? Seems like none..

Why We Still Love Film: Analog Photography in the Digital Age | NBC Left Field

don't let the dreamers foolyou wish their wishful thinking; film is dead!

 

[138S]

This seems plausible however any reference for these numbers would be much appreciated (otherwise it's just parroting).

"The film market peaked in 2003 with 960 million rolls of film, today it represents roughly 2% of that,” says Manny Almeida, president of Fujifilm’s imaging division in North America."

Manny Almeida, president of Fujifilm’s imaging division in North America.
(google: linkedin Manny Almeida Fujifilm)
Interview in TIME magazine: https://time.com/4649188/film-photography-industry-comeback/

(otherwise it's just parroting).