mystery incompatible films with Lab-Box

rbrigham · Apr 12, 2020

HI All

I've heard that some films are incompatible with lab-box which I think is because the knife in the 135 module
can not cut PET based film
apparently there is also a problem with PET 120 film as well but this dose not involve cutting
so who knows what the problem is with roll film

I've reached out to Ars-imago for clarification on the 120 problem and a list of PET coated films
but they responded by asking which films I use instead of listing the problem ones

personally I use FP4 and HP5 which work very well in Lab-Box but
I develop film for lots of young people who try lots of exotic films from who knows where
winding the film onto the reel to find you can't cut it with no way of winding it back into the cartridge is really not great
and not knowing if your 120 film has loaded correctly till its been processed would be bad as well

Dose anybody know what the real issues are with 120P PET films
and
dose anybody have a list of PET films 135 & 120

stay safe

robin

pentaxuser · Apr 12, 2020

rbrigham said:
HI All

I've reached out to Ars-imago for clarification on the 120 problem and a list of PET coated films
but they responded by asking which films I use instead of listing the problem ones

Dose anybody know what the real issues are with 120P PET films
and
dose anybody have a list of PET films 135 & 120

stay safe

robin

Based on the above response are you sure that the Ars-imago outfit you contacted isn't a political party or at least has a lot of trainee press-briefing students on secondment? It can't be a company that earns its living selling things that meet the customers' requirement, surely?

pentaxuser

Bud Hamblen · Apr 12, 2020

rbrigham said:
dose anybody have a list of PET films 135 & 120

robin

Ars-Imago has a list of PET films at https://www.lab-box.it/support

I've had 120 film wad up outside the film cylinder instead of curling inside the film cylinder as it should.

macfred · Apr 12, 2020

I expected more from the lab-box ... I have problems with most of my (120) films. But it could be me ...

rbrigham · Apr 12, 2020

Thanks for the link Bud
not sure why they could not send it to me themselves but there you go

I'll try and avoid processing those films

stay safe

robin

Sirius Glass · Apr 12, 2020

Fascinating, I like the system and the film loading. I wish that Jobo would load film as easily.

MattKing · Apr 12, 2020

rbrigham said:
Thanks for the link Bud
not sure why they could not send it to me themselves but there you go

I wonder if you ran into a language problem - perhaps they misunderstood your question.
A question in the English language that is referencing a future development of an unidentified film might confuse a non-English speaker.

focus_on_infinity · Sep 25, 2020

I've struggled with the LabBox a bit. I unsuccessfully tried to use some PET films for a while, which, as I have since learned, wasn't going to be successful. The blade just can't cut them. I have tended to lose one frame on my 120 rolls, so I'm not too keen on doing that again.

Using 490ml and intermittent agigation, I've had issues with inconsistent development. There isn't a whole lot of extra capacity in there, and I believe that if your surface isn't perfectly level, the film might stick out of the developer. Also, I believe that agitation should only be clockwise rotation, because the film can back off the spool if you go the other way. You can have issues with both development and fixing in this case.

My best roll was a roll of 35mm that I developed recently with 300ml of fluid and continuous agitation. I think with that method, it's a really good tool.

pentaxuser · Sep 25, 2020

So have Ars-Imago yet to admit that their blade will not cut PET as would appear to be the case? I watched the same slightly manic guy demonstrate both 35 mm and 120 but he made no mention of having to cut the 35mm film. There would appear to be no problem with PET 120 as from the demo you simply tear off the sticky tape so no cutting involved. Have I go this right for the 120 film?

Thanks

pentaxuser

AgX · Sep 25, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Fascinating, I like the system and the film loading. I wish that Jobo would load film as easily.

Try their late daylight-loading tank 2400.

(Though that might have problems too with PET based films, but I never tried.)

focus_on_infinity · Sep 25, 2020

pentaxuser said:
So have Ars-Imago yet to admit that their blade will not cut PET as would appear to be the case? I watched the same slightly manic guy demonstrate both 35 mm and 120 but he made no mention of having to cut the 35mm film. There would appear to be no problem with PET 120 as from the demo you simply tear off the sticky tape so no cutting involved. Have I go this right for the 120 film?

They specifically state it, and have a list of known PET films not to use with their product. I only fooled around with it as long as I did because I didn't know what that meant when I read it. Only the 35mm film is cut, and they state that cutting is the issue. 120 isn't cut. However, they also warn against using the 120 with their product, my guess is because it's too stiff to use well with the spool.

Dark Matter · May 29, 2021

This is seriously annoying. I didn't think to check if there were films you couldn't use. My 1940s vintage Rondinax cuts PET film fine and PET hadn't even been invented back then. You'd think if Ars-Imago are going to "borrow" a design, they would have thought through all the "improvements". The problem here is a simple one, the Rondinax has a solid, straight blade and the Lab Box has a flimsy, wavy, serrated blade. After 70 years the Rondinax cuts my film (Fomapan and Rollei Retro 400s) with one stroke. With the Lab Box, after 30+ strokes I still have to apply so much force to the knob that the film squishes together and I loose 50% of the frames. I'm not writing off what would otherwise be a good piece of kit, so I guess I 'll have to do the other thing and take it to the workshop and try sharpening the blade. Or replacing it entirely.

Helios 1984 · May 29, 2021

Put tension on the film by rotating the knob, hold it and push the cutting knife tab. Works every time with my Rondinax 35. Also, a sharp cutting knife helps.

RalphLambrecht · May 29, 2021

rbrigham said:
HI All

I've heard that some films are incompatible with lab-box which I think is because the knife in the 135 module
can not cut PET based film
apparently there is also a problem with PET 120 film as well but this dose not involve cutting
so who knows what the problem is with roll film

I've reached out to Ars-imago for clarification on the 120 problem and a list of PET coated films
but they responded by asking which films I use instead of listing the problem ones

personally I use FP4 and HP5 which work very well in Lab-Box but
I develop film for lots of young people who try lots of exotic films from who knows where
winding the film onto the reel to find you can't cut it with no way of winding it back into the cartridge is really not great
and not knowing if your 120 film has loaded correctly till its been processed would be bad as well

Dose anybody know what the real issues are with 120P PET films
and
dose anybody have a list of PET films 135 & 120

stay safe

robin

I suggest to contact Stephan Barth at barth@nahn.net, who distributes theLabBox in Germany, according to Imago.

Auer · May 29, 2021

Ive had no issues cutting 135 PET film, but have had issues with 120 PET not rolling up in the chamber properly when separating the paper.
When in doubt I use the Jobo 1520. I enjoy having both a Lab-Box and a Jobo

Dark Matter · May 30, 2021

RalphLambrecht said:
I suggest to contact Stephan Barth at barth@nahn.net, who distributes theLabBox in Germany, according to Imago.

Thanks. It could be that mine Lab Box had a blunt bland for some reason but sharpening it fixed the issue and it now behaves like my Rondinax - slight tension on the knob and the film is cut in one stroke.

This was the film prior to sharpening the blade - mangled rather than cut. I had the same issue with the Fomapan, and Rollei

And this is the Fomapan after I sharpened the blade. The Fomapan is thicker than the Rollei, so I expect it will cut the Rollei OK.

AgX · May 30, 2021

I assume the better cut still is serrated as the knive already is serrated as hinted at in some post above.

Dark Matter · May 30, 2021

Auer said:
Ive had no issues cutting 135 PET film, but have had issues with 120 PET not rolling up in the chamber properly when separating the paper.
When in doubt I use the Jobo 1520. I enjoy having both a Lab-Box and a Jobo

My Rondinax 35u isn't perfect, thicker film like the Foma Retro 320 doesn't roll on to the reel properly. Like you say, when in doubt I use my old Paterson.

summicron1 · May 30, 2021

Hmmm. Have seen these for sale and discussed. Just watched the "How to" video for 120 -- seems awfully fiddly and step-intensive. No offense but I'll stick to steel reels and tanks -- I can load two rolls faster than that can load one.

Dark Matter · May 30, 2021

AgX said:
I assume the better cut still is serrated as the knive already is serrated as hinted at in some post above.

Correct, I sharpened it by filing both sides of the blade until it was sharp to touch. Originally it was only sharpened on one side

MattKing · May 30, 2021

summicron1 said:
Hmmm. Have seen these for sale and discussed. Just watched the "How to" video for 120 -- seems awfully fiddly and step-intensive. No offense but I'll stick to steel reels and tanks -- I can load two rolls faster than that can load one.

The advantage of the Lab-Box is that you don't need a dark room or a changing bag to use it.

AgX · May 30, 2021

MattKing said:
The advantage of the Lab-Box is that you don't need a dark room or a changing bag to use it.

Imagine all the stuff you need for processing (en route); amongst this it makes no bulk difference whether you take a convential tank with a changing bag or just a daylight loading tank. However the conventional tank gives better processing control.
For type 135 there was the Jobo daylight-loading tank which in processing handles as a conventional tank.

Auer · May 30, 2021

The Lab-Box is a Rotary tank.
Plenty of Processing control and really compact and practical.
I love it for 135 especially, everything is done quickly at the kitchen sink.

grat · May 30, 2021

The problem with the PET base is that the gripper might not grip it, and it tends to get tangled in the reel, at least for 120 film. The cutting is an aspect I hadn't thought of for 135 film. Didn't I see something about Kodak moving some of their films to PET (Estar) base recently?

Auer · May 30, 2021

grat said:
The problem with the PET base is that the gripper might not grip it, and it tends to get tangled in the reel, at least for 120 film. The cutting is an aspect I hadn't thought of for 135 film. Didn't I see something about Kodak moving some of their films to PET (Estar) base recently?

The new Kodak PET bases will most likely be problematic yeah. At least in 120.

mystery incompatible films with Lab-Box

rbrigham

pentaxuser

Bud Hamblen

macfred

rbrigham

Sirius Glass

MattKing

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focus_on_infinity

pentaxuser

AgX

focus_on_infinity

Dark Matter

Helios 1984

RalphLambrecht

Auer

Dark Matter

AgX

Dark Matter

summicron1

Dark Matter

MattKing

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AgX

Auer

grat

Auer

mystery incompatible films with Lab-Box

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