My letter to KODAK, will reply with response. Please consider doing the same.

[faberryman]

Motive, can you give me an idea of the number of rolls of film you shoot in a year? Do you process it yourself or send it out to a lab? What camera(s) and lens(es) do you own?

 

[afriman]

If your question is how to get young people to use film which I want to also but then I really don't have an answer. A new camera isn't the answer in my opinion.

Why not? We're a consumerist society. Market it well, sell it at the right price and people will buy it.

 

[Motiv]

Motive, can you give me an idea of the number of rolls of film you shoot in a year? Do you process it yourself or send it out to a lab? What camera(s) and lens(es) do you own?

I shoot about 30 rolls of 35mm per year. Almost exclusively black and white, which I develop myself.

Around 40-50 rolls of 120. Half colour, half black and white. Colour I send off to the lab. Black and white I develop.

I have 2 mamiya 645 pros with a 80mm 2.8mm. One of the 645s has gone wrong, and I am currently fixing it (problem with the solenoid)

I also have a x700, with the 50mm f1.7 lens, and currently 2 broken ones. Which I fix and sell on. The capacitors leak, so I replace them. I have repaired a few now.

I also have a canon eos5000, whch was my first film camera. It was a very simple camera that I used at college for my photography course. It has the kit lens.

I have a d7200, with 50mm prime, 10-24mm, 18-55mm and a 55-300mn dx lenses.

 

[Lee Rust]

We all came up in the one and only age of mass-produced film cameras. It was truly a glorious season. Now all that remains are the niche products of the 'instant' Fujifilms and Polaroids, a few disposable 35mm and retro funky Lomo snapshooters, a handful of pricey new Leicas and Nikons... and a century's worth of existing analog cameras of every description.

It doesn't hurt to ask, but Eastman Kodak is an extremely improbable candidate for any new camera manufacture. The several people I know who still work there are stoically waiting for the end to come, complaining of the same short-sighted and unimaginative management style that Kodak has suffered for decades. The fate of Alaris is likely linked to that of of EK and Fuji seems increasingly disinterested in chemical photography aside from Instax, so any future for conventional film or film cameras will likely lie with Ilford or one of the other European manufacturers. Black & white film, that is. Before too long, the production of the complex and expensive color emulsions will go the way of Autochrome, lost to history along with the deep practical knowledge base that made them possible.

Kodak is dead. Long live Kodak! Buy and shoot their wonderful films while you still can. Buy and shoot the Leica M-A, MP or M7 if you can afford one, or the Nikon F6 or FM10 if you can't. Otherwise, there are plenty of old cameras on the planet. Perhaps in the future some entrepreneur will offer 3D printed camera kits that dedicated filmosaurs will be able to assemble themselves. Kickstart!

 

[AgX]

To be fair, there is already a company/manufacturer that brought out quite some new cameras: Lomography

That they so far have not come up with a new SLR or refined finder camera should be telling.

 

[pentaxuser]

I note that Motiv's first thread was about learning how to manufacture film. I suggest that we all read his thread and posts since joining us a few days ago. I think that it is always worthwhile to get a feel of where a new member is coming from

pentaxuser

 

[chris77]

Why not? We're a consumerist society. Market it well, sell it at the right price and people will buy it.

ugly as an idea, sad truth nevertheless..

 

[Lux Optima]

I really like Motiv's letter. It is - like good film photography - full of charm, wit, and tells a story.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Chan Tran]

Why not? We're a consumerist society. Market it well, sell it at the right price and people will buy it.

But so far nobody including the OP has any idea how the new camera should be, what kind of feature it has to have, let alone making it at the right price.
The OP did say simple but simple like what? Like a fully mechanical, meterless or a fully automatic P&S with auto composition and auto shutter release? Built in selfie feature? LCD viewfinder? Android OS? Cellular, GPS enabled?

 

[cowanw]

http://photoseed.com/blog/2017/06/20/let-the-children-kodak-post-bankruptcy/
Not only is this a really nice blog but this posting is more or less apropos.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

... Before too long, the production of the complex and expensive color emulsions will go the way of Autochrome, lost to history along with the deep practical knowledge base that made them possible. ... Buy and shoot their wonderful films while you still can.

This is the most important thing: ensuring the films we love survive.

Any new film camera will be no better than the many hundreds of thousands of existing older film cameras. At least with the older film cameras there are people who can repair them and a supply of parts. Any new film camera won't have experts who can repair them 10 or 20 years from now. Right now I'm using a perfectly running Leica III from 1934. Earlier this year, I spent many months making photos with four different Exaktas from the mid-1950's; their operation, including timed slow speeds, was perfect.

 

[afriman]

But so far nobody including the OP has any idea how the new camera should be, what kind of feature it has to have, let alone making it at the right price.
The OP did say simple but simple like what? Like a fully mechanical, meterless or a fully automatic P&S with auto composition and auto shutter release? Built in selfie feature? LCD viewfinder? Android OS? Cellular, GPS enabled?

I have made some tentative suggestions earlier on in this thread. But those are the kind of specifics that will have to be addressed systematically. It will involve market research, cost analysis, clear identification of the target market, a marketing and distribution plan, etc. etc. The technical features will have to be decided along with all these business considerations. But the broad concept I'm advocating, is that if there is any hope for a mini film renaissance (and I mean "mini"), we have to look at getting a younger generation interested. And for that we cannot rely on old equipment bought off ebay. Marketing a couple of affordable, user-friendly, decent-quality cameras alongside film surely makes sense. Part of that work has been done by Lomography, but I believe it can and should be taken further. Film photography as a hobby has a lot of appealing aspects in comparison with digital cameras. Discovering that there's more to film than blurry, low contrast images with lots of flare and funky colours could be quite a revelation. And there is of course the coolness factor of using an iconic product like Kodak film along with some modern compact 35mm cameras, perhaps bearing another iconic name like Nikon.

 

[mshchem]

What has always made film possible is amateur photography. Kodak has made more cameras than everyone else put together. Some sort of roll film camera that took 8 or 10 exposures with a high quality plastic, hard coated f11 lens, A little plastic LED auto exposure contact printer (Modern ABC photo kit ) . Something easy that would be fun. Deckle edge print out paper. Some sort of gimmicky thing that would get kids interested.
There's got to be a way to get a trend going like Fuji Instax.
Alaris and Kodak neither seems to have a clue about what film could do.

 

[removed account4]

No, "an army of stuff" would be extreme. I'm thinking of at most a handful of different types of cameras.

I think it should go beyond lo-fi. That field has been covered by the Holga/Lomo crowd. I'd like to see a younger generation discover the fact that film can actually be a serious photographic medium. By all means START with something as basic as a box camera (or even a pinhole), but also provide the opportunities for those who want take it further.

No thesis necessary. Just some entertaining, interesting and easily digestible info. Let's consider those who want to be more than mindless button-pushers and mouse-clickers. People who want to think just a wee bit about what they're doing.
Of course. You know what I mean. A pinhole camera is also "as real as it gets" and can be a wonderfully creative tool. You have to contextualize what I say.

right !!
why not start them off with what started it all ..
big deal that lo-fi is holga and lomo crowd .. that just means
kodak will have a CAPTIVE AUDIENCE... ...
if i had never shot film before there is no way i would waste my $ time and efforts
on some sort of complicated camera and then use rolls of film that costs 15$ a pop
( film+processing ) and a learning curve.
id use it for the novelty of it, seeing everyone else i know on facebook is blabbing about it
i'd probably get terrible photos out of it, get frustrated, not think the fancy retro camera
is worth the high price tag, probably sell it or throw it in the drawer and goback to the cellphone or p/s
something i and know i get good enough results with. that is the world most people live in ..
the world of status quo / good enough.

the disposable or box( with 120 film) would take the hassle out of having to
do more than i already do, point and shoot like the other 98% of the button pushers
( sorry, most people are just button pushers unless they have other aspirations ) ..

im not really sure what context i should be placing your comments .... sorry about that..
ive thought about it for a while, even slept on it, and i am still comming up empty.
the context im thinking of is the context of people using a camera ..
they already have a short attention span, they don't have anyone left near them to process film
they don't have the time to spend in the darkroom and maybe the idea of using something
the first camera consumers used ( a box ) with send in service might be worth it.
albeit the first box camera cost a few months salary for a lot of people ( $280+)
being 2017 i'd suggest it didn't cost as much as a schneider 600 fine art xl lens
since most people don't have a lot of $$ to spend. cheap processing included with every
roll of film ( + jpgs ) and if they want more they can get more.
kodak wasn't built on film, it wasn't built on cameras but processing ... the 35mm disposable camera
is pretty much the 35mm version of the box ... they just need to redesign the packaging
with some art nouveau lettering ..

 

[Two23]

Wow, the negativity astounds me.

It is an internet forum, LOL. As for film cameras, my oldest is a Watson & Son half plate camera from the 1880s. It works like new. So does my 1904 Brownie, 1905 Century Camera Co. Model 411909 Panoram No.2, 1914 Kodak Special No.2, 1925 ICA Cocarette, 1928 Voigtlander Bergheil........


Kent in SD

 

[Sirius Glass]

So the box full of inoperable cameras that a friend offered me doesn't exist, and all of those cameras in it actually work perfectly?

In the next 50 years, all those cameras, the ones already broken and not working, will magically continue to work without issue or require servicing? In the next 50 years, all those Hasselblads will continue to function flawlessly with an endless supply of spare parts (which you won't need, because cameras will always function for an infinite amount of time without damage or loss)?

The Mamiya TLR lens with the broken shutter blade, that was quoted at nearly three times what I paid for it for repair, is fine and doesn't need service?

Your problems and your friend's problems are your own problems, not industry problems. I have no problems keeping my cameras in working condition.

 

[Chan Tran]

I have made some tentative suggestions earlier on in this thread. But those are the kind of specifics that will have to be addressed systematically. It will involve market research, cost analysis, clear identification of the target market, a marketing and distribution plan, etc. etc. The technical features will have to be decided along with all these business considerations. But the broad concept I'm advocating, is that if there is any hope for a mini film renaissance (and I mean "mini"), we have to look at getting a younger generation interested. And for that we cannot rely on old equipment bought off ebay. Marketing a couple of affordable, user-friendly, decent-quality cameras alongside film surely makes sense. Part of that work has been done by Lomography, but I believe it can and should be taken further. Film photography as a hobby has a lot of appealing aspects in comparison with digital cameras. Discovering that there's more to film than blurry, low contrast images with lots of flare and funky colours could be quite a revelation. And there is of course the coolness factor of using an iconic product like Kodak film along with some modern compact 35mm cameras, perhaps bearing another iconic name like Nikon.

We all know that we are getting old and will die so the future of film depends on the young generation. You say get they young interested but how? Let leave the affordability aside for the moment (it's very important but let leave it aside for the moment). What IS your idea of a user friendly, decent quality camera that would attract the younger generation?
I have no idea either and I rather think like Theo who said "Any new film camera will be no better than the many hundreds of thousands of existing older film cameras."

 

[removed account4]

Not film, but Kodak has produced a new digital camera that prints mini prints https://www.dpreview.com/news/71627...i-shot-10mp-camera-prints-tiny-instant-photos
and is working on a Super 8 film camera that would use Ektachrome, I believe, when its produced.

now THAT is pretty cool !
thanks alan ..

 

[mshchem]

Your problems and your friend's problems are your own problems, not industry problems. I have no problems keeping my cameras in working condition.

Hasselblads and Leicas, like a fine timepiece will be operable and repairable for a very long time to come. Electronic stuff not so. I have Nikon F and F2 cameras still going strong, and easy to get repairs.

 

[Craig]

There are plenty of new large format cameras being made. Look at companies like Shen-Hao, Chamonix and the Intrepid kickstarter. I can't honestly see much of a future for film in 35mm, digital can do it better in that format. Large format is a different animal, people specifically choose LF for the look it gives and I think film will stay strong there.

 

[chris77]

There are plenty of new large format cameras being made. Look at companies like Shen-Hao, Chamonix and the Intrepid kickstarter. I can't honestly see much of a future for film in 35mm, digital can do it better in that format. Large format is a different animal, people specifically choose LF for the look it gives and I think film will stay strong there.

+1
digital killed the 35mm star

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Digital didn't kill film for me. I have three digital cameras (the last two being an X-Pro1 and D700) and won't be replacing or upgrading them. I much prefer using film.

 

[Alan Johnson]

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/KODK
Kodak is now a tiny company and the consumer film division only accounts for about 12% of its products.
It may be in trouble.
The suggestion apparently is based on the past.

 

[Paul Manuell]

[/SIZE]http://photoseed.com/blog/2017/06/20/let-the-children-kodak-post-bankruptcy/
Not only is this a really nice blog but this posting is more or less apropos.

Thank to Google I know what apropos means now.

 

[georg16nik]

@Craig and @chris77

there will be commercially made, reasonably priced 35mm film long after the last MF/LF bites the dust.
in all these years and decades past, LF or MF led the cancellation notices for various film and not 35mm/135.

...and it looks like digital cameras got killed by smartphones quite alright.
Sales at all time lowest, digital camera industry walks it's last legs - they better start mfg SLR/RF film bodies as theres hardly any large-scale demand for digital camera bodies going forward, while there might be a real one for film bodies.

The entry-to-mid level 35mm SLRs are covered quite well by the Cosina platform as most of the entry to mid level bodies from various brands are based on one and the same guts made by Cosina... but in 10 to 15 years there gonna be a real need for fresh inflow.

Most 35mm RFs are kinda indestructible and trivial to maintain within tolerances.

35mm film is still here and we got plenty of B&W and color options to choose from.

 

[chris77]

@Craig and @chris77

there will be commercially made, reasonably priced 35mm film long after the last MF/LF bites the dust.
.

... are you the oracle?