My letter to KODAK, will reply with response. Please consider doing the same.

faberryman said:

I shoot film, wet print, and do alternative processes, so I am sympathetic to your view, but why do you feel the need to denigrate digital photographers to the rank of "happy snapper" who are "just manipulating pixels all day"? You can advocate film photography in a positive way, without demonizing those who have chosen a different path to image making. Your film elitism off-putting.

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That was definitely not my intention! I'm also an enthusiastic digital photographer, with a nice mirrorless camera and lenses that I love using. When I said "if your goal is just to capture a record of the moment and be a happy snapper, digital is obviously the way to go", I wasn't suggesting that digital was inferior or not suitable for serious photography. I was just saying that film would not be the obvious choice if your goal was snapshots and you weren't interested in photography as a hobby.

afriman said:

That was definitely not my intention! I'm also an enthusiastic digital photographer, with a nice mirrorless camera and lenses that I love using. When I said "if your goal is just to capture a record of the moment and be a happy snapper, digital is obviously the way to go", I wasn't suggesting that digital was inferior or not suitable for serious photography. I was just saying that film would not be the obvious choice if your goal was snapshots and you weren't interested in photography as a hobby.

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Actually "snapshots" are also driving film sales (hipsters with old film cameras because of the "cool" factor, lomography, impossible project...).

Sure. But I was referring to the mainstream use of digital in the form of smartphones in order to capture instant images. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just that film photography is a different experience.

I was an early, enthusiastic adopter of digital in the early 90s when all my film equipment was stolen. Over the years I have owned and used several digital cameras - compact, SLR and mirrorless - and I still like using digital. I only got back into analogue photography a few years ago (largely because of this forum), and I get a very different kick from it. I definitely DON'T want to polarize the two! I just think it's refreshing, when most of us live in a digital world most of the time, to get away from that sometimes and work with something that's more mechanical.

afriman said:

Sure. But I was referring to the mainstream use of digital in the form of smartphones in order to capture instant images. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just that film photography is a different experience.

I was an early, enthusiastic adopter of digital in the early 90s when all my film equipment was stolen. Over the years I have owned and used several digital cameras - compact, SLR and mirrorless - and I still like using digital. I only got back into analogue photography a few years ago (largely because of this forum), and I get a very different kick from it. I definitely DON'T want to polarize the two! I just think it's refreshing, when most of us live in a digital world most of the time, to get away from that sometimes and work with something that's more mechanical.

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Kind of the same here.

A problem I have right now with film: current Nikon lenses don't work with film Nikons. :-( If there's a camera I'd really love to see, it would be a Nikon F7.

afriman said:

I believe that the availability of a new stylish, compact and affordable 35mm camera could help a lot to stimulate interest. Isn't that a logical product to bring out in conjunction with the resurrection of a film like Ektachrome? Something that will take people a step further than Lomography and and allow them to discover some of the potential of film that sets it aside from digital?

While the used camera market is fantastic for us, it's not going to grab the imaginations of many young people. Those that really become passionate will, however, soon begin to discover old cameras as well.

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Fujifilm's Klasse S cameras didnt do much for film sales and Fuji could not keep them in production. Why would Kodak's camera do better, especially since they are no where near as competent at building cameras as Fuji.

Ko.Fe. said:

It is all about consumerism, which is buying new. And nothing else. Consumerism driven wants new. Some people from film era like me hates it. Where are millions of camera which are made to lasts for very long time. But for consumerist like OP It is no-no. It must be new.
Where are new film cameras made. Expensive Leica RF cameras, not expensive Lomography cameras. LF cameras are still made. Where are Cosina made SLRs which are just few years old. BH had them for sale nobody wanted it. Where is new Nikon F6 and new single use camera under different brands, including Kodak collecting dust of store shells. But no, OP wants his own new and wants to be a film saving hero.
Where are millions of film cameras in fully working order and they are made from metal and glass. They will works for decades. But no, OP wants new. Consumerism Iit is.
Why buy old and pay money for single repair person? It is not cool. It has to be new and under known label. Shameless consumersm. Shame.

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Did you not read my posts? I fix old and broken cameras. I couldnt care less if the camera is new or old. I just want to stimulate the film enough to bring in new film photographers; to embrace something that is staring us in the face. Instagram retro style photography and instant film has been popular the last few years, there is nothing to stop us from giving film a new lease of life. Something that would benefit certain luddites in this very forum. I am not asking you to use the product, but I am asking people to be positive, as I would hope that we are working towards the same goal.

To extend the life of film photography, so the next generation can have the opportunity to try it if they wish.

I am far from a consumerist. Call it what you want, I would sell out to the consumerist market if it meant we could see an increase in intrrest in film photography.

if you would rather see film sink, and be part of history. Then keep shooting blind to the consequences of dying market. "RIP Film"

Im not going to see that happen. I am going to start attempting to produce my own film in the new year.

For the people that asked for specifics of what a new compact camera could offer.. Please find a few of my ideas on the attached image.

Chan Tran said:

Digital is perfect archival. You can simply list the file and write down all the 0 and 1 in the file. Someone in the future should be able to reconstruct the image perfectly with that.

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Yes, they will!

Ever since before the Greeks discovered the rocks in Phrygia, they asked for the easiest, most secure and reliable technology and in the 8 day God gave them digital...

Digital is so easy, you just write down ones and zeros on dark matter napkin, spill over a bottle of cryptography... and it's safe and secure for centuries.

Don't forget to type “:wq” and then press the divine key of creation.

RattyMouse said:

Fujifilm's Klasse S cameras didnt do much for film sales and Fuji could not keep them in production. Why would Kodak's camera do better, especially since they are no where near as competent at building cameras as Fuji.

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I never suggested that Kodak should make such a camera. What I said was: "I see no reason why Kodak could not partner up with a manufacturer to bring such a camera to market.". Such a "partnership" could take different forms, e.g:
(a) a camera sold under the Kodak name, but made by a different manufacturer;
(b) a camera sold under another name, but somehow linked to Kodak film, like launching at the same time, being marketed as "companion products", sold by the same outlets, etc.

Market research needs to be done, but there may be several reasons another camera could have more success than Fuji's:
(a) There are definite signs of a resurgence of interest in film, albeit small
(b) Kodak is the most iconic name in film photography, more so than Fuji. A camera somehow associated with Kodak film may stand a better chance, but smart marketing will be necessary
(c) The business model could be different. Fuji probably needed quite high sales figures to make continued production of film cameras sustainable. Another manufacturer may work with different economies of scale.

These are all "ifs" and "maybes", but if Kodak should show interest in exploring such possibilities, I think they should be encouraged to do so - and signs of enthusiasm from groups like this surely wouldn't hurt.

Motiv said:

Instagram retro style photography and instant film has been popular the last few years, there is nothing to stop us from giving film a new lease of life.

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But Impossible films were sold even without a new camera being out there.

Putting your argument of the market drying out in future aside, also the argument of new alway being beter in reliability than used, there are various options to obtain a used camera, from fleamarket at full risk up to serviced and warranted. Also there are so many weird models out there that even the most extravagant would find something apt.

As brought up above already, there are manufacturers out there who either cancelled their models quite recently, do not bring out new advanced models, or even failed with such as just these days two enterprises.

Nevertheless I do see a market, but also a high risk concerning the overhead costs.

georg16nik said:

@Craig and @chris77

...there will be commercially made, reasonably priced 35mm film long after the last MF/LF bites the dust.
in all these years and decades past, LF or MF led the cancellation notices for various film and not 35mm/135...

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I don't think I can see that far into the future but as long as the film industry buys 35mm film then I suspect it will continue to be available for us.

Large format will be around for a long time in my opinion. Sheet film is the type of thing that can be done at home if need be or supported by small scale Mom and Pop operations. It may last the longest of all the film types.

Motiv said:

For the people that asked for specifics of what a new compact camera could offer.. Please find a few of my ideas on the attached image.

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Your concept camera takes both film and digital exposures simultaneously or separately? Uploads the digital images & interfaces directly with smartphones? There would definitely be a market for that.

It's ironic that you are considering presenting this to Kodak at this late date. If EK had listened to people with your imagination, they could have produced something like this ten years ago and be in a very different place today. As it was they sat on their original digital camera invention for a decade.

Are there existing patents for something like this? If not, get one. Then it's up to you to find a manufacturer.

Alan Johnson said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/KODK
Kodak is now a tiny company and the consumer film division only accounts for about 12% of its products.
It may be in trouble.
The suggestion apparently is based on the past.

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Kodak is a small yellow box company based in New York. It has become so small it was booted of the Dow Jones Industials.

Lee Rust said:

Your concept camera takes both film and digital exposures simultaneously or separately? Uploads the digital images & interfaces directly with smartphones? There would definitely be a market for that.

It's ironic that you are considering presenting this to Kodak at this late date. If EK had listened to people with your imagination, they could have produced something like this ten years ago and be in a very different place today. As it was they sat on their original digital camera invention for a decade.

Are there existing patents for something like this? If not, get one. Then it's up to you to find a manufacturer.

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i worked for a national portrait chain IDK 12-15 years ago and they were taking simultaneous film and digital photographs. this is not a new concept

Keep on it Motiv!

Keep positive, innovative, out of the box, outgoing and inclusive. I personally need film and silver gel paper of good quality to stick around so I go to great lengths to share this craft with others.

There are many ways to succeed in this life but perhaps the best way is to help others do the same. So in two years, you will be able to come to my home high in the mountains of Colorado, take a silver print workshop and even use a camera kit in the format of your choosing. I am building student kits in Nikon, Hasselblad and will eventually with 4x5. That is not to say one can not use their own gear but to have it provided as an option makes sense on several levels. First off, there are not too many places one can Dead Link Removed to get their feet wet in a new format. So having an army of spares facilitates that and brings more value to the workshop. And of course, since it is gear I already use in my work, I have more backup than usual within systems I have long since standardized on.

Now, there have been several "ignition points" in regards to stoking the renewed interest in film photography and I say use whatever means necessary to continue it. So even though there are still lots of great used cameras on the market and a few young people have taken the advice of refurbishing them, bringing new film cameras to market is at the very least symbolic of a strong niche interest in the medium.

What I see all too often on this forum is lack of innovative thinking possibly based on the notion of adaptation as a form of settling for less than what the glory days of film put forth. I think it is the opposite, I think brand new ways of keeping film use thriving coupled with young minds and hi-tech can bring about some pleasant surprises.

I print from negatives because the net gain is always a positive. Stay positive.

jnanian said:

i worked for a national portrait chain IDK 12-15 years ago and they were taking simultaneous film and digital photographs. this is not a new concept

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Even so, I've never heard of a handheld A/D combo camera. Has anybody else encountered such a thing?

About 20 years ago there was such camera. More kind of a gadget.

Ai Print said:

What I see all too often on this forum is lack of innovative thinking possibly based on the notion of adaptation as a form of settling for less than what the glory days of film put forth. I think it is the opposite, I think brand new ways of keeping film use thriving coupled with young minds and hi-tech can bring about some pleasant surprises.

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+100

Innovative thinking is great. Somebody putting their money where there mouth is... even better. Way better than telling someone else where they should be putting their money, which unfortunately happens all too often with innovative thinking.

For me film is good if one enjoys making the photographs more than having the photographs to show.

BrianShaw said:

Innovative thinking is great. Somebody putting their money where there mouth is... even better. Way better than telling someone else where they should be putting their money, which unfortunately happens all too often with innovative thinking.

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I failed to see any innovation in the OP post.

Chan Tran said:

I failed to see any innovation in the OP post.

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i know me too but what can you do ..
film is fun and he wants kids to have fun so when they are his ( or my or your ) age
they can enjoy the same sort of fun ...

BrianShaw said:

Innovative thinking is great. Somebody putting their money where there mouth is... even better. Way better than telling someone else where they should be putting their money, which unfortunately happens all too often with innovative thinking.

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are you talking superloop ?

JCH is trying to make a fancy new compact in next year or two so its happening whether people like it or not

Sirius Glass said:

Kodak is a small yellow box company based in New York. It has become so small it was booted of the Dow Jones Industials.

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Kodak was booted off the S & P 500 index too. If the share falls $2.25 more, then Kodak will be booted off the New York Stock Exchange.

afriman said:

I never suggested that Kodak should make such a camera. What I said was: "I see no reason why Kodak could not partner up with a manufacturer to bring such a camera to market.". Such a "partnership" could take different forms, e.g:
(a) a camera sold under the Kodak name, but made by a different manufacturer;
(b) a camera sold under another name, but somehow linked to Kodak film, like launching at the same time, being marketed as "companion products", sold by the same outlets, etc.

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Fujifilm did that. Their cameras were made by Cosina and marketed by Fuji (and Voightlander in the case of the two medium format cameras). They still were not successful enough to keep them in production.

afriman said:

Market research needs to be done, but there may be several reasons another camera could have more success than Fuji's:
(a) There are definite signs of a resurgence of interest in film, albeit small
(b) Kodak is the most iconic name in film photography, more so than Fuji. A camera somehow associated with Kodak film may stand a better chance, but smart marketing will be necessary
.

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Kodak's name has no importance to the general public. None. Neither does Fuji's for that matter. Most people dont even know Kodak still exists.

Fujifilm has been known as a maker of very high quality film cameras since the 1970's. Kodak hasnt made a decent film camera since when? 70 years?

Instead of making a camera, Kodak needs to find a way to survive the next 5 years. To date, they have NOT figured that out yet.

This thread is amaze-balls..