My Jobo's are on their last legs

dwdmguy · Dec 13, 2009

I for one, wish you the very best of luck.
I would only warn of one thing, be careful using a jobo trained tech understanding he no doubt has IP agreements with Jobo as well as infrindging on Jobo's patent as well.
OF course I'm not saying this is or will be the case, so do not read into that, I'm just saying keep an eye out for it.
Luck to you.

Tom Kershaw · Dec 13, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
John and others
Once we have made a prototype and then the 4 devices I wil make available all our schematics, drawings and sources for those of you using Jobos now and still want to keep your tanks in the future and have interest in building your own.

Bob,

This would be a tremendous service to film users.

Tom

Bob Carnie · Dec 13, 2009

He is an independent guy that took the training over twenty years ago, If I have my way there will be absolutely no parts of Jobo on these units as I think the direction I am going is all parts off a shelf and put together in a very easy to understand fashion.
But thanks for the heads up.
QUOTE=dwdmguy;908950]I for one, wish you the very best of luck.
I would only warn of one thing, be careful using a jobo trained tech understanding he no doubt has IP agreements with Jobo as well as infrindging on Jobo's patent as well.
OF course I'm not saying this is or will be the case, so do not read into that, I'm just saying keep an eye out for it.
Luck to you.[/QUOTE]

Bob Carnie · Dec 13, 2009

I think I am going to change my name to Saint Robert
thanks

Tom Kershaw said:
Bob,

This would be a tremendous service to film users.

Tom

richard ide · Dec 13, 2009

Bob,
Just found this thread now. Sounds like something I would enjoy working on. Emailed you my phone no.

DanielStone · Dec 13, 2009

bob, do you need to fill the tanks while they're rotating? or is taking the drum off of the roller base ok to change chems?

-Dan

Bob Carnie · Dec 13, 2009

The drums will be taken off to dump and fill.

DanielStone said:
bob, do you need to fill the tanks while they're rotating? or is taking the drum off of the roller base ok to change chems?

-Dan

Bob Carnie · Dec 13, 2009

Ok Folks

I am a happy camper, by starting this thread and getting a bunch of ideas and now Richard and I have talked and he is willing to build what I envision.

It will be a all Canadian Project that uses Jobo Drums and Reels, The unit will allow for different times and drums will work from 35mm right up to 30x40 sheet film.
We now have to give it a name and over the holidays Richard , my Technician who has done all the work at Elevator for over 15 years and myself will brainstorm and come up with a plan.

The parts will all be easily found in any Canadian Supply Store and we will try to make sure the parts can be found in the States.

Richard has agreed to give up spec's and such to anyone willing to build their own , or he may be co oerced to build one only after mine are done. You may have to entice him with a Tim Hortons or a Molsons.

We are still open to any ideas , sources of parts , or even doubt's or concerns.

I will personally make a 30x40 inch fibre print for the person who comes up with the best name for this device, on good old Ilford Warmtone of course.

Anon Ymous · Dec 13, 2009

Well, since it will replace a Jobo and your name is Bob, call it "Bobo".

Grunthos · Dec 13, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
Listen Pretty Lith Boy

There has to be one wisenheimer in every group.
This is a really serious matter, I think you should leave this for the folks with brains and go our and look for Jerry.
Bob

Aren't we touchy today!

MattKing · Dec 13, 2009

How about the "Elevator" processor?

Why waste a good opportunity for publicity?

Alternatively, maybe Sean would let you call it an "APUG".

Matt

Mahler_one · Dec 13, 2009

Bob....sincere thanks for taking on the project. Many of us here wait for news of the new machine. Please keep us informed.

Ed

Dave Dawson · Dec 13, 2009

Having followed this thread and being an ageing ATL-2+ owner (in both senses of the word) aren't you trying to re-invent the wheel to some extent ?

These Jobo machines when new were ultra reliable and only usage and age have bought on various failures/unreliabilty. To me (and I'm often wrong) it seems like some are saying "My 1980's Buik car is getting very unreliable and parts are getting hard to find so I'm going to design a new car made from mainly Buik parts"

Instead would it not be better to concentrate our efforts on finding 'alternative suppliers' of spare parts to keep the Jobo processors running?

To my mind there is no processor to currently replace the facilities of the ATL-2 and as such why try and BUILD a replacement?
I (personally) would appreciate sources of spare/equivilent parts to keep my current processor working rather than trying to re-design it.

Comments/bashing welcome.

Cheers Dave

ps...All spelling mistakes are deliberate.

Toffle · Dec 13, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Bob;

The back and forth rotation is essential, so if you use a lathe, it must have this same type of reversal in the rotation. If you keep going in one direction, you will get uneven development.

PE

I think this got a little sidetracked with the question of reversing motors, etc.
Unless I am mistaken, I think rather than reversing the motors, a simple rocker cam assembly could achieve the same effect.

Don't take my word for it, though... I'm even less mechanically inclined than Bob.

Cheers,

Photo Engineer · Dec 13, 2009

AFAIK, the rocking action will not compensate for the back and forth action. There is a wave set up by the back and forth that destroys linear flow that rocking may not. If it does not, then the process will develop streaks in thee direction of turn.

PE

Toffle · Dec 13, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
AFAIK, the rocking action will not compensate for the back and forth action. There is a wave set up by the back and forth that destroys linear flow that rocking may not. If it does not, then the process will develop streaks in thee direction of turn.

PE

Sorry, PE. I should have been more clear. What I had in mind was indeed a rocker cam type of assembly, but one wherein the "rocking" is translated to a rotation of the tanks. (Damn, I keep thinking of a washing machine... I think I should shut up now. )

paul ewins · Dec 13, 2009

I just did a little test of my CPP and came up with the following speeds:
For one direction motion - F=34.5rpm, 3=54rpm, 4=71rpm and P=83rpm
Bidirectional motion is a little harder to explain since it doesn't quite do two full revolutions (maybe 690 degrees) before reversing, but if you take that into account the number of reversals of direction per minute are: F = 16, 3 = 22, 4 = 25 and P = 26 which seems to be showing that the slow down, change direction, speed up phase is a real limiter on the average speed obtainable when using the reversing mode.

This was done without a drum attached, obviously the weight of the drum (and contents) and the drag of the water in the tempering bath could make a difference. I guess a 3005 with a litre of water would provide a worst case scenario to test that.

Diapositivo · Dec 13, 2009

Nice and constructive thread.

Not very good at finding names, I just try with "DeDe" as "The Definitive Developer". Definitive in the sense that spare parts should be easily available everywhere and so the name should reflect the main merit of the machine, solving the "spare-parts angst". Variants: DeDe Machine, DeDeDiY Machine, etc.

Or maybe a Koco machine. This is just Jobo with consonants raised by 1 place in alphabetical order (J + 1 = K, B + 1 = C), just like Stanley Kubric did with the HAL computer (which was derived by IBM the same way but by going backword).

I agree that probably a search for alternative parts would be easier to solve your particular problem, but a machine buildable everywhere with common parts would solve the problem in general, also for people with a different machine (or with no machine at all).

Good light
Fabrizio

John Koehrer · Dec 13, 2009

If Jobo actually used a BMW wiper motor to drive their machines that's nice but I know other makers also use similar motors & it might be advantageous to work up a design that would use motors of similar but not identical physical size.
Going back to the lathes a woodworking lathe would be more crude but also far less expensive. Sears or Harbor Freight will have something around $100.

DanielStone · Dec 13, 2009

bob,

what about NOBO (NO Jobo)

or FOBO (f*** Jobo)? I know its a bit raunchy, but it sure show's your distain for Jobo .

or, depending on how many processors you're going to have built, you can also give them sexy female names, say,

Lenore, Bridget, Brandy, Candy, etc.... hooker names, or sugar baby names .

just an idea, so each of your operators can refer to them by name, kind of like a boat .

-Dan

MattKing · Dec 13, 2009

If you want there to be a wider possible market for this, it would be really good to be able to use them or convert them for use with Paterson tanks as well.

Matt

dr5chrome · Dec 14, 2009

..looks like you have this resolved, good news! Sidekick will be good for your small film, it is a decent machine but limiting. The deal with the WL is that they already have off the shelf parts, so modification was very easy. The biggest film we run is 11x14 [dr5 & or negs or E6], but you are talking 'huge' film - 30x40. There are many labs closing down, tossing big film processors but to handle 30" wide would be tuff to find and or expensive to have made [D&D] let alone very costly to run. I think for this size + quality, the big drums are the best way to go.

regards.

Bob Carnie said:
Wing Lynch was going to be my salvation , then they went out of business, so I got a bit nervous as the WL technician for Ontario lives 100 miles away and now represents Chromira so good luck getting any attention from him.

I really at this point am not thinking about fixing the Jobo , I have a Alt 3 that works for now and I am going to put all my energy solving the larger picture which is how can I process all films to my satisfaction.

I at one point was going to modify a Refrema to take larger tanks to hold 30x34 sheets of film and paper and run everything through this device. It really is a good idea for all applications but the quote I got was over $120K and I really need to be a busier shop to see the return.

paul ewins · Dec 14, 2009

Another couple of small pieces of data after cracking my CPP open to have look:
The motor does look like a wiper motor, but probably not BMW since it is 24V. The label on it is SWF 403.278 24V. SWF definitely make wiper motors and the number does look like their regular part number but I couldn't get a match when searching for it. SWF (SWF Auto-Electric GmbH) don't appear to have a website. I checked a couple of sites for prices of similar SWF units and they were in the $200 - $300 range so an entirely different sort of motor would probably be a better & cheaper idea. Interestingly, most wiper motors are two speed units running at around 35 & 50rpm which is lower than the speeds recommended for expert and 25xx drums.

The label on the pump was marked as follows: Heidolph Typ 107.10.00007 240v 50hz. Again, I wasn't able to find an exact match and Heidolph seem to concentrat on laboratory equipment now so they may not even manufacture this type of pump any more. It should be relatively easy to determine the required flow rate for an alternative pump.

It needs to be noted that my CPP is an early model (serial 21xxx) so the upgraded motor in the later ones may be quite different.

Bob Carnie · Dec 14, 2009

joke , the frenchman is a good friend , I insult all my friends
have a nice day

Grunthos said:
Aren't we touchy today!

Dinesh · Dec 14, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
..., I insult all my friends
....

All two of them!

My Jobo's are on their last legs

dwdmguy

Tom Kershaw

Bob Carnie

Bob Carnie

richard ide

DanielStone

Bob Carnie

Bob Carnie

Anon Ymous

Grunthos

MattKing

Moderator

Mahler_one

Dave Dawson

Toffle

Photo Engineer

Toffle

paul ewins

Diapositivo

John Koehrer

DanielStone

MattKing

Moderator

dr5chrome

paul ewins

Bob Carnie

Dinesh

My Jobo's are on their last legs

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