My First Medium Format - What Should It Be?

[iandvaag]

You sold me. My son asked me what camera I'd like for my birthday so I said a Sputnik.

Fantastic choice, you won't regret it. You should definitely join the MF3D Yahoo group. Also, if you want, contact me off-list with your postal address and I'll ship you some mounts.

 

[John51]

Wow thanks!

What difference do the mounts make? I have Clearfile neg holders that hold 3 strips by 4 frames. Open each end so ideal for storing stereo pairs. What's the best way to store mounted slides?

 

[Arthurwg]

Make your first MF camera your last: Hasselblad.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Make your first MF camera your last: Hasselblad.

Nice to see that someone understands the advantage of going directly to where one will end up anyway; and avoid the hassles, heartaches, waste of money and waste of valuable time. You know you want it, so just go get it.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

You sold me. My son asked me what camera I'd like for my birthday so I said a Sputnik.

beep... beep...

 

[markbau]

Make your first MF camera your last: Hasselblad.

Or Bronica or Mamiya or Pentax.
When I was printing profesionaly in the 1990s in Denver the vast majority of medium format film was 67, in fact 6x6 was quite rare and 645 almost unheard of. I think Hasselblad's (whilst obviously fine cameras) are now mainly status symbols. If you're going MF, why go for a smaller neg?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Or Bronica or Mamiya or Pentax.
When I was printing profesionaly in the 1990s in Denver the vast majority of medium format film was 67, in fact 6x6 was quite rare and 645 almost unheard of. I think Hasselblad's (whilst obviously fine cameras) are now mainly status symbols. If you're going MF, why go for a smaller neg?

It has absolutely less than nothing to do with status symbols. It has to do with availability of service, parts, accessories, lenses and backs. I had used several TLRs, including Mamiya C330 and I did not like the handling and ergonomics. I had considered getting the Rollei SL66 until I researched getting service, camera bodies and lenses compared to Hasselblads.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

What is suitable for one photographer might not be suitable for another. I like RB67's and Fuji 6x9.

As a user of four Hasselblads I can say that.

We don't need photographic jingoism.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What is suitable for one photographer might not be suitable for another. I like RB67's and Fuji 6x9.

As a user of four Hasselblads I can say that.

We don't need photographic jingoism.

The existence or non-existence is not jingoism.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

The implication that MF shooters will eventually choose Hasselblad is either teasing or, if serious, presumptuous.

 

[johnha]

The choice between Pentax, Mamiya and Bronica depends on whether you want interchangeable back and finders. The Pentax lacks these and I went for a Mamiya 645 Pro which is slightly more sophisticated than the Bronica (instant return mirror and integrates with power winders in a more streamlined way). There was a cheaper/lighter 'penta-mirror' metering finder for the Mamiya 645 Pro (similar to that of the 645e I think). If I was thinking of a camera for studio work I'd probably go for Bronica SQ (you can get a 645 back for it).

Another option may be an earlier Bronica S2a, cheaper but probably heavier than an SQ. Keeping it affordable allows for more accessories. Ultimately Mamiya v Bronica depends on whether you need leaf shutters or not (Leaf shutter lenses are available in a few focal lengths for the Mamiya but probably harder to find).

Update: the penta-mirror finder for the Mamiya 645 Pro is the FK402.

 

[markbau]

It has absolutely less than nothing to do with status symbols. It has to do with availability of service, parts, accessories, lenses and backs. I had used several TLRs, including Mamiya C330 and I did not like the handling and ergonomics. I had considered getting the Rollei SL66 until I researched getting service, camera bodies and lenses compared to Hasselblads.

I notice Hassellblad owners often talk about the availability of service and spare parts. Does that mean that they break down a lot? I've had the same Pentax 67 for over 20 years, it has had about 2,000 120/220 films through it, it's been dropped, rained on, fallen off the roof of a moving car, you name it, and it has never missed a beat, its never even been in for any kind of service. I did have the shutter tested once and all speeds were well within spec. There are tons of accesories and lenses in the second hand market. It's as if Hassellblad owners have to justify their high purchase price by spreading this view that unless you own one you are just an amateur. Like I said in my earlier post, I never saw much 6x6 film come through the pro lab I worked at. BTW, the C330 hasn't been used by pros for about 40 years but the RB/RZ 67 was a veritable workhorse.

 

[runswithsizzers]

As the person who started this thread, I should probably mention that I am not, at present, still shopping for a medium format film camera. I ended up buying a second digital camera, so there is no extra money right now. I have a couple of Pentax MX SLRs which are doing film duty. (Taking a break from b&w with some Kodak Ektar.)

I do appreciate all the helpful advice, which will not be wasted if (when) I get the medium format bug again.

As for the less helpful advice, that's OK, too. Maybe someone can use it. It's funny how these threads take on a life of their own, and so often end up far from the intended destination. Ask a question about the Canadian Rockies, and someone wants to tell you how great California is.

Some of my requirements, as stated in my opening post:

... NOT looking for a TLR
definitely not looking for anything larger than 6x6
moderate cost ... working camera and "normal" lens for around $400-450, US (less would be better)
smaller and lighter prefered over bigger and heavier
through-the-lens viewfinder​

And I also mentioned that I do not need a "deep system" because I will not be buying additional lenses and accessories. What I did not mention, but probably should have, is that the camera will be carried around outside and used hand-held.

I haven't really looked at the Hasselblad brand because I assumed they would be too expensive and too heavy for walkabout, but you know what they say about assumptions, so maybe I'm wrong. Can one of the Hassleblad evangelists tell me which model I can expect to buy with a lens and a prism finder for less than $500(US), and will it be smaller and lighter than the Bronica, Mamya and Pentax 645 or 6x6 models?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Make your first MF camera your last: Hasselblad.

++1

 

[wahiba]

A 120 folder. Many have very good lens. I have a Baldax. Weird film counter and it easy to get a bakers dozen. Superb lens colour and black and white. Also folders are portable. Folded they fit in the pocket.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I notice Hassellblad owners often talk about the availability of service and spare parts. Does that mean that they break down a lot? I've had the same Pentax 67 for over 20 years, it has had about 2,000 120/220 films through it, it's been dropped, rained on, fallen off the roof of a moving car, you name it, and it has never missed a beat, its never even been in for any kind of service. I did have the shutter tested once and all speeds were well within spec. There are tons of accesories and lenses in the second hand market. It's as if Hassellblad owners have to justify their high purchase price by spreading this view that unless you own one you are just an amateur. Like I said in my earlier post, I never saw much 6x6 film come through the pro lab I worked at. BTW, the C330 hasn't been used by pros for about 40 years but the RB/RZ 67 was a veritable workhorse.

Please stop injection your own agendas and smears. Stick to the facts: As wonderful as the Bronicas cameras are, and I personally like them, the manufacturer has gone out of business so parts and service are getting harder to get. In the future it will become even harder to get those parts and service. When one invests in a camera system, one should look at the long term viability of maintain the camera system. All cameras will eventually need CLAs, parts and service. Unless one can buy all the lenses they will ever need when they first buy a camera system, there must be enough availability to buy other lenses in good operating condition at reasonable prices.

 

[choiliefan]

Just don't buy a Hasselblad with focal plane shutter if you expect long-term support.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

... Ask a question about the Canadian Rockies, and someone wants to tell you how great California is.

Yosemite is really nice.

... tell me which model I can expect to buy with a lens and a prism finder for less than $500(US), and will it be smaller and lighter than the Bronica, Mamya and Pentax 645 or 6x6 models?

This one:

https://images.app.goo.gl/5zGvHAgTsc7Fmqvy6

 

[John51]

Some of my requirements, as stated in my opening post:

... NOT looking for a TLR
definitely not looking for anything larger than 6x6
moderate cost ... working camera and "normal" lens for around $400-450, US (less would be better)
smaller and lighter prefered over bigger and heavier
through-the-lens viewfinder​

And I also mentioned that I do not need a "deep system" because I will not be buying additional lenses and accessories. What I did not mention, but probably should have, is that the camera will be carried around outside and used hand-held.

If you won't be getting additional lenses, why the need to see through the lens?

For a single lens camera, I'd rather have a rangefinder than an slr.

 

[runswithsizzers]

If you won't be getting additional lenses, why the need to see through the lens?

For a single lens camera, I'd rather have a rangefinder than an slr.

Rangefinders (and TLRs) suffer from the following limitations; SLR cameras do not:

Parallax errors at closer focusing distances.
Inability to easily observe the effect of a graduated ND filter, a polarizing filter, or a screw-on close up lens.
Can't visually check depth of field at stopped down aperture.​

Personal preferences. You have yours, I have mine.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Just don't buy a Hasselblad with focal plane shutter if you expect long-term support.

That agrees with what my Hasselblad repairman advised me.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Rangefinders (and TLRs) suffer from the following limitations; SLR cameras do not:

Parallax errors at closer focusing distances.
Inability to easily observe the effect of a graduated ND filter, a polarizing filter, or a screw-on close up lens.
Can't visually check depth of field at stopped down aperture.​

Personal preferences. You have yours, I have mine.

Many decades of experience plus ten years working in camera stores taught me that.

 

[btaylor]

Parts and service. Rarely have the cameras I had serviced required parts (other than foam, etc). And if the Bronica, Mamiya, etc body is that far gone replacements aren’t going to cost more than $200. Really, I think the Hasselblad parts and service argument is a little weak, fortunately there are still repair people out there for most old film cameras (at least for the time being). 645 has a lot going for it and the gear is mostly very inexpensive. I don’t have any, I like square 6x6 from my Hasselblad and the additional real estate of 6x7 from the RZ, but for portability with a prism and cost 645 is hard to beat.
And yes, Yosemite is nice! They even got the old names back. Makes me happy.

 

[iandvaag]

Hi John51. Somehow my notifications weren't working so I missed this message, sorry.

What difference do the mounts make?

It depends what you would like to do with your images. Personally, I believe that the ultimate in 3D photography is backlight slides in a handheld viewer. To do this, you need to have some way of holding the film chips flat. Also, the left and right images must be transposed (cut apart and swapped) in order to properly view the stereo image. Mounting two film chips in a single stereo mount achieves several things:
- holds the film flat
- holds the film chips the appropriate distance apart to be viewed in a viewer
- sets the stereo "window" of the scene
- fixes the alignment of the image

You can also shoot negative film and make stereo prints. If you want to make prints, you probably will find it easiest to contact print the film, which can only be done with unmounted film. Myself (and the majority of MF3Ders) find prints much less immersive that slides, but they can be a lot of fun and they have the advantage of being reproducible, unlike a camera-original slide. Prints are also considerably more work than slides.

I have Clearfile neg holders that hold 3 strips by 4 frames. Open each end so ideal for storing stereo pairs. What's the best way to store mounted slides?

Every couple years, one of the members of our group has gotten polyester sleeves made to store mounted slides. As for containers, you can store the mounted slides however you like. The mounts fit in many cases designed to hold 3"x5" index cards (provided the cases are made a bit oversize), which is very convenient.

As for negs, I rarely shoot them for stereo. I use 4 strips by 3 frame sleeves by Print File to store my unmounted film. As I said above, the stereo pairs must be cut apart for viewing, so it doesn't really matter that the sleeves store strips that are a multiple of 2 frames. You'll have to cut the film between each stereo pair eventually. This can be done before or after printing if you are using negative film.

Keep in touch; I'd love to hear how you make out. And if you are ever interested in sharing your images and seeing the images of others, please consider submitting images to a traveling folio! I manage one of the two MF3D folios that circulate in North America and I'd be thrilled to have another member.

 

[John51]

I sent my son scans of the test roll and he sent this back:

https://media.giphy.com/media/JstI6leHBXw9Iso0SV/giphy.gif

He is waiting for some stereo family pics to convert.