My attempt at shooting 135 in RB67 so far

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I've just gotten myself a 220 film back today to try and shoot 35mm in my RB67 Pro for those sick panoramas. Who needs an XPAN when you've got medium format? You even get to expose the area around the sprocket holes for maximum emulsion usage. Now that's 35mm! My motivation behind getting a 220 back is twofold: one, I can use (almost) the entirety of a 36 exposure roll as the counter goes up to 20 instead of 10. If using a 24 exposure roll I think you can use the entirety of it on a regular 120 back with no problems in the counter. The other reason is that the pressure plate on 220 backs is better suited for the thickness of 135 film. I don't actually know how big of a difference this makes and honestly I don't care all that much about tack sharpness (and also the film is going to bend anyway), so if I were only shooting 24 exp rolls I'd not have bothered until I had seen the results; I would have preferred to avoid having to shell out for another back if I don't strictly need it.

I thought I'd try to document my process a bit, because there's not as much information about the minutiae of doing this online as I thought there was (at least not stuff that I was able to find). There's plenty about the fact that people do do it, but the processes that I found were either not very detailed or kind of wasteful like dragging the emulsion all the way to the take up spool on the other side! I know there are also custom made 35mm backs in existence but honestly this doesn't appeal to me as it feels like a waste of perfectly good existing backs; why reduce the number of formats you can shoot down to just one?

I would have liked to have posted this thread after I had some results, but unfortunately while I was testing, I wasn't able to get the film counter to advance with 35mm inserted, even though it worked perfectly fine with 120 backing paper. I'm not sure what the root cause of this is, because the film is advancing as expected (I watched it with the dark slide removed), and the plastic adapter thingies I'm using to attach the canister are able to rotate just as a 120 spool would.

To be honest I am no longer sure how the film counter is engaged at all. When I was playing around with my 120 back I was under the impression that both spools needed to be spinning and that this little lever at the top needs to be engaged—normally it's pushed down by the outer cassette door when it's locked shut—but clearly these three conditions aren't sufficient. If anybody knows how I might get the frame counter working, that would be great information to have as I have a mild suspicion that the gears turn differently when winding without the frame counter. Ideally I'd not want to have big spacing and waste emulsion, or accidentally overlapped exposures... This is the one hitch I have yet to overcome but it's one of the major benefits that a 220 back is supposed to have! Maybe there's not enough torque or something?

That aside, here's my process for making use of as much emulsion as possible. I measured a distance of about 46 cm from the start of the 120 backing paper to the edge of the first frame with a piece of masking tape that I attached with the dark slide off. This is where I want my 135 to start to be exposed. I cut off an extra 3 cm from there, down to 43 cm of paper leader just to add a little bit of extra wiggle room for the tape attaching the paper leader to the film leader, otherwise there's a risk that part of the frame will have tape in it. To attach the paper leader to the film leader I cut off the top and bottom of the backing paper away up to the arrow. I had to measure this so that it was centred and the same width as the film, because in earlier testing I found that the paper leader would like to wiggle around and become misaligned going into the cartridge. I cut all the way up to the arrow where I tapered it off and kept the full width of the backing paper, to make it easy to get the right length in the can and the right length on the take up spool. Then I loaded it up and cranked the winding lever four times, which I found to theoretically be the right number by respooling a developed roll I didn't care about and using it as a sacrificial roll.

Now as for unloading, you need a dark bag with this method. The unloading process is particularly annoying for me, because I haven't got access to a changing bag at the moment (my partner has one but is currently off with it in the US). Instead I took a normal backpack into the little cubby under the stairs and used that as a makeshift darkroom (with the bag as extra protection against any light that might have sept under the doors; I don't know if this will have offered enough protection, but some of the light seals on the back I'm using look like they might be rotting, so if there are leaks I won't know their provenance with certainty) and then rewound the film back into the can by hand.

Some improvements for my next roll: I reckon cutting the paper leader to 43 cm will include frame X0 or 00 or something like that on the emulsion, so for my next attempt I might cut the paper leader even shorter down to 40 cm. That feels like a lot of wasted emulsion if 43cm is enough, so I want to see the developed negatives before I run my next roll. Also, I plan to actually cut a little bit further than the arrow, to account for the half turn (okay, it's more like 160°, which is something like 2.8 cm) that the canister has to take to be seated properly in the back, and next time I'm going to secure the film to the paper leader using regular clear tape, which I think is thinner. For this first attempt I was just using masking tape because it's super quick and easy to work with, but you can really feel when it's passing through the flocking.

I need to make a mask for focusing screen. So far I've measured a distance of 12 mm on either side of a strip film in the... exposure area (I swear it has a name but it escapes me at this moment)? Anyway, making for a total height of 59 mm within expectations, so the film takes up 59.3% of the exposed area and 40.7% without sprocket holes. These percentages might be important because it seems the ground glass (65 mm actual size by 55 mm guide lines) isn't 1:1 with the film area (67 mm long axis by 59 mm short axis; the one that matters), but I'm not sure if what you see on the focusing screen is exactly what will be in frame. Either the focusing screen is cutting stuff off or it's slightly resizing what you see (or both). I could make one out of paper but it seems awfully annoying to have to take the viewfinder off to change orientation or to switch back to MF, so I haven't made it yet. I want to build something a bit more sturdy and unobtrusive. I think I'll pick up a sheet of acetate and just write on it with a small texta and that should do the trick for a quick and easy job.

Anyway my apologies if this has gotten a bit rambly. I tried to keep my writing as focused as I could but sometimes it's hard for me to actually tell whether or not something I've said is a tangent. I will post more to this thread as I make further progress on this stuff, and hopefully with some scans soon. When I get this worked out more I think I'll also take some step by step photos or maybe even record a video guide. Cheers
 

Eff64

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I don’t understand why to do it that way.

Crop the negative to the aspect ration you want. By using narrower film than 120, you are cropping the image area in the camera.

So why not just use 120 (with everything else the same, lens and distance wise) and crop a 24mm high strip out of the center of a 7 cm wide negative.
 

MattKing

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Welcome, and thanks for the explanation.
The exposure area can be referred to as the "film gate", which is a term most often encountered in the world of motion picture film.
220 film doesn't have backing paper behind most of the film - just a paper leader and a paper trailer. The pressure plate on a 220 insert equipped back is set up assuming no paper behind the film. Most people who try to do what you are doing do it with just 35mm film in the back - no paper.
If I had played with this with my RB67 - I even had the adapters - I would have been tempted to instead just tape a shorter roll of film on to a re-used 120 backing paper, and use 120 spools. But I didn't.
 
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illawarraflametree
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Welcome to Photrio!
Thank you
I don’t understand why to do it that way.

Crop the negative to the aspect ration you want. By using narrower film than 120, you are cropping the image area in the camera.

So why not just use 120 (with everything else the same, lens and distance wise) and crop a 24mm high strip out of the center of a 7 cm wide negative.
Shooting 135 gives me access to a wider range of emulsions. Also, there is some psychological aspect to the framing when your film is actually those dimensions.
Welcome, and thanks for the explanation.
The exposure area can be referred to as the "film gate", which is a term most often encountered in the world of motion picture film.
220 film doesn't have backing paper behind most of the film - just a paper leader and a paper trailer. The pressure plate on a 220 insert equipped back is set up assuming no paper behind the film. Most people who try to do what you are doing do it with just 35mm film in the back - no paper.
If I had played with this with my RB67 - I even had the adapters - I would have been tempted to instead just tape a shorter roll of film on to a re-used 120 backing paper, and use 120 spools. But I didn't.
Oh yeah, I know the 220 film doesn't have backing paper. I'm using the backing paper of 120 film as a leader. I'm not trying to attach it to the back of a roll of 135. That way I'm not wasting an exposure or two on a leader that has usable emulsion on it. So taping used 120 paper and using 120 spools as the take-up is exactly what I'm doing.
 

reddesert

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To be honest I am no longer sure how the film counter is engaged at all. When I was playing around with my 120 back I was under the impression that both spools needed to be spinning and that this little lever at the top needs to be engaged—normally it's pushed down by the outer cassette door when it's locked shut—but clearly these three conditions aren't sufficient. If anybody knows how I might get the frame counter working, that would be great information to have as I have a mild suspicion that the gears turn differently when winding without the frame counter. Ideally I'd not want to have big spacing and waste emulsion, or accidentally overlapped exposures... This is the one hitch I have yet to overcome but it's one of the major benefits that a 220 back is supposed to have! Maybe there's not enough torque or something?

The frame counter is engaged by the roller on the left side of the film holder as you look at it from the rear (the supply side, under the film counter dial). You can verify this by opening the back, pressing in the little lever in the light-seal channel that is pressed when the back closes, and spinning this left-side roller in the correct direction.

The thing you are fighting is, I think, that the roller is not the same in all RB film holders. On a Pro S (120) back that I looked at, the roller is narrow (small diameter) and has a rubberized ring at the top. My guess is that your 35mm film is slipping over the main roller and not turning it to advance the counter. For 120/220 film that extends all the way to the top, it rides on the rubber ring and behaves correctly.

However, on a 1st generation non-Pro-S (and 220) back that I looked at, the roller is much wider and doesn't have that rubberized piece. It looks like this:
https://natural-camera.com/products/8513
(this is a 645 120 back, but it's the best picture I could find quickly of the inside of a pre-Pro-S film holder).

So my guess is that you could either:
- find a pre-Pro-S 220 back
- or put a thin layer of friction tape or similar on the center of the roller of your 220 back
to engage the film counter.
 
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Thank you

Shooting 135 gives me access to a wider range of emulsions. Also, there is some psychological aspect to the framing when your film is actually those dimensions.

Oh yeah, I know the 220 film doesn't have backing paper. I'm using the backing paper of 120 film as a leader. I'm not trying to attach it to the back of a roll of 135. That way I'm not wasting an exposure or two on a leader that has usable emulsion on it. So taping used 120 paper and using 120 spools as the take-up is exactly what I'm doing.
Have you marked the viewfinder screen with cropping marks.
 

MattKing

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That way I'm not wasting an exposure or two on a leader that has usable emulsion on it

The 35mm film will expose quite nicely whether or not there is backing paper behind it - although the anti-halation properties might differ a bit.
The real reason you need to waste a bit of film is to ensure that the film is both reasonably flat across the gate and actually across the full gate.
FWIW, this works easier if you have bulk film you can adjust the length of.
You can run the full 120 backing paper equipped film through the 220 backs. You might feel a tiny bit more resistance to winding, and if you do this a lot, you can end up weakening the springs behind the pressure plate, which can make it less suitable for using 220 film.
 

Donald Qualls

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The frame counter is driven by the first turn around roller on the supply side (thickish black roller) and you have to bond the main roller body to the rubber ring at the insert-top end in order for 35 mm film to drive the frame counter. On my 220 back, I used the tiniest drop of super glue and it appears to work correctly (though I haven't shot another roll of 35 mm film since then).
 

koraks

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So why not just use 120 (with everything else the same, lens and distance wise) and crop a 24mm high strip out of the center of a 7 cm wide negative.

Cause it's kind of cool to expose across the sprocket holes and edge markings of 35mm film and make that an integral part of the image. Some people may consider it a cheap trick, but for others, it works. I've always kind of liked it.

@illawarraflametree welcome aboard, first of all! Thanks also for your writeup. I'm digging in my memory how I did this when I last experimented with shooting 35mm in a 120 back. I know I did this with a DaiYi 6x12cm back. This got me a really extreme aspect ratio panorama (it's like 35x115mm or so), which appealed to me. I took a roll of 35mm film, modified a 120 core to fit the 35mm cassette into, and then cut off a bit of backing paper to make a leader and tape the leader of the 35mm film onto that. Especially the DaiYi back is easy since you can just keep transporting film until you reach the end of the roll, which basically means it jams at that point. Open it up in the darkroom and unload the film. I couldn't swap a roll in the field (I might have using a changing bag), but I never really saw the need for it anyway. On the Mamiya I don't really recall how I did it except that I also just used a 35mm cassette and modified 120 spools.

Ultimately, I gave up on it (I'll revisit it at some point) because I mostly intended to shoot color film using the 6x12 back, and that really didn't work very well. The problem with 35mm film in a medium format camera is that the film tends to curl inward along the edges. This has two effects: (1) focus is only spot on in the center of the frame, with the image sliding out of focus along the top and bottom edges, and (2) light bouncing around behind the sprocket holes creates secondary exposure through the back of the film. Both effects tend to be worse on larger backs (so 6x4.5 wasn't half as bad as 6x12) since the curling problem just gets worse the longer the piece of film in the exposure gate is. With color film, the problem of the secondary/halation exposure was particularly bad because it totally messes up not just contrast, but also color balance along the edges. There was just no way to print those images in the darkroom, which is what I wanted to do. Even digital color correction gave mediocre results.

You can actually see the curving problem in one of the images on the page linked to by @xya.

Here's some of my attempts from back then:

1752610628995.png


1752610646724.png


This was stopped down pretty far so as to have the depth of field solve the problem with focus. But as you can see, color along the sprocket holes was a bit of a problem.
I still have a vague plan of revisiting this experiment using Kodak Vision3 film with remjet backing, which should be more immune to this problem. I didn't have access to that back when I made the images above, some 10 years ago.

Black and white worked sort of OK, especially in low contrast situations where the halation problem didn't play up that much:
1752610801582.png


I'm not familiar with the frame counter mechanism on your camera, but if this relies on friction of the film + backing paper along some kind of roller, then I can see how having just a single layer of paper along the edges with no film there being a problem.
 

Ben 4

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Cause it's kind of cool to expose across the sprocket holes and edge markings of 35mm film and make that an integral part of the image. Some people may consider it a cheap trick, but for others, it works. I've always kind of liked it.

@illawarraflametree welcome aboard, first of all! Thanks also for your writeup. I'm digging in my memory how I did this when I last experimented with shooting 35mm in a 120 back. I know I did this with a DaiYi 6x12cm back. This got me a really extreme aspect ratio panorama (it's like 35x115mm or so), which appealed to me. I took a roll of 35mm film, modified a 120 core to fit the 35mm cassette into, and then cut off a bit of backing paper to make a leader and tape the leader of the 35mm film onto that. Especially the DaiYi back is easy since you can just keep transporting film until you reach the end of the roll, which basically means it jams at that point. Open it up in the darkroom and unload the film. I couldn't swap a roll in the field (I might have using a changing bag), but I never really saw the need for it anyway. On the Mamiya I don't really recall how I did it except that I also just used a 35mm cassette and modified 120 spools.

Ultimately, I gave up on it (I'll revisit it at some point) because I mostly intended to shoot color film using the 6x12 back, and that really didn't work very well. The problem with 35mm film in a medium format camera is that the film tends to curl inward along the edges. This has two effects: (1) focus is only spot on in the center of the frame, with the image sliding out of focus along the top and bottom edges, and (2) light bouncing around behind the sprocket holes creates secondary exposure through the back of the film. Both effects tend to be worse on larger backs (so 6x4.5 wasn't half as bad as 6x12) since the curling problem just gets worse the longer the piece of film in the exposure gate is. With color film, the problem of the secondary/halation exposure was particularly bad because it totally messes up not just contrast, but also color balance along the edges. There was just no way to print those images in the darkroom, which is what I wanted to do. Even digital color correction gave mediocre results.

You can actually see the curving problem in one of the images on the page linked to by @xya.

Here's some of my attempts from back then:

View attachment 403044

View attachment 403045

This was stopped down pretty far so as to have the depth of field solve the problem with focus. But as you can see, color along the sprocket holes was a bit of a problem.
I still have a vague plan of revisiting this experiment using Kodak Vision3 film with remjet backing, which should be more immune to this problem. I didn't have access to that back when I made the images above, some 10 years ago.

Black and white worked sort of OK, especially in low contrast situations where the halation problem didn't play up that much:
View attachment 403046

I'm not familiar with the frame counter mechanism on your camera, but if this relies on friction of the film + backing paper along some kind of roller, then I can see how having just a single layer of paper along the edges with no film there being a problem.

I like those—they make natural use of the wider frame!
 

itsdoable

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If you want to change films in daylight, you can feed the 135 film from one cannister into another, I did this with a P67 so I could shoot more than one roll during a session, but you do loose your last shot.

You can make a insert/gate that helps flatten the film, but you loose the sprockets. Again, I made one for my P67.

I put some thin rubber tape on the feed roller where the film ran so it would turn the roller, and count frames. Typically 120 film is pinched between 2 rollers at the edge to meter the film, with a bit of rubber or roughness on the roller to ensure traction. If the roller and film metering mechanism gets stiff, you often get bad frame spacing. A CLA on the back usually fixes that.

I found 36exp roll worked just right with a 220 setting, it works out to about the same length of film. I think I only got 19 frames on a 36exp film.

Kodachrome was not available in 120 when I was doing this. And using bulk rolled B&W was easier with 135 film.
 

blee1996

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I found it much easier to use Pentax 6x7 or Fujica 690 for 35mm panorama: the film path is simpler and less stress on the winding mechanism. All film back based solution introduces a bit more friction.

I also feed one 35mm canister to another, so I can avoid using film change bag in the field.
 
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illawarraflametree
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The frame counter is engaged by the roller on the left side of the film holder as you look at it from the rear (the supply side, under the film counter dial). You can verify this by opening the back, pressing in the little lever in the light-seal channel that is pressed when the back closes, and spinning this left-side roller in the correct direction.

The thing you are fighting is, I think, that the roller is not the same in all RB film holders. On a Pro S (120) back that I looked at, the roller is narrow (small diameter) and has a rubberized ring at the top. My guess is that your 35mm film is slipping over the main roller and not turning it to advance the counter. For 120/220 film that extends all the way to the top, it rides on the rubber ring and behaves correctly.

However, on a 1st generation non-Pro-S (and 220) back that I looked at, the roller is much wider and doesn't have that rubberized piece. It looks like this:
https://natural-camera.com/products/8513
(this is a 645 120 back, but it's the best picture I could find quickly of the inside of a pre-Pro-S film holder).

So my guess is that you could either:
- find a pre-Pro-S 220 back
- or put a thin layer of friction tape or similar on the center of the roller of your 220 back
to engage the film counter.
Thanks for the information about the roller, I wonder why the 35mm adapter isn't having trouble engaging it, I guess it's built outside the tolerances of the takeup roller.
Have you marked the viewfinder screen with cropping marks.
Not yet, as I said I'm planning on dropping in a sheet of acetate into the viewfinder later. Just need to buy some.
The 35mm film will expose quite nicely whether or not there is backing paper behind it - although the anti-halation properties might differ a bit.
The real reason you need to waste a bit of film is to ensure that the film is both reasonably flat across the gate and actually across the full gate.
FWIW, this works easier if you have bulk film you can adjust the length of.
You can run the full 120 backing paper equipped film through the 220 backs. You might feel a tiny bit more resistance to winding, and if you do this a lot, you can end up weakening the springs behind the pressure plate, which can make it less suitable for using 220 film.
I probably should have attached photos (or explained my process more clearly), but I didn't take any because I misplaced my phone at the time I was working on this. I'm using 120 paper only as a leader, to prevent emulsion wastage. Film flatness isn't something that I thought using extra leader would cause problems with. I guess if the first frame is warped or out of focus I'll know why lol.
Yeah I saw these and they look pretty straightforward, I think they're where I got the idea to do this in the first place. The real arts and crafts project for me here was adding paper leader to minimise wasted leader and make sure the frame numbers align if and when I can get that working.
The frame counter is driven by the first turn around roller on the supply side (thickish black roller) and you have to bond the main roller body to the rubber ring at the insert-top end in order for 35 mm film to drive the frame counter. On my 220 back, I used the tiniest drop of super glue and it appears to work correctly (though I haven't shot another roll of 35 mm film since then).
Thanks for the info. I'll try and see if blutak will work for this, I think I read about people using blutak somewhere.
Cause it's kind of cool to expose across the sprocket holes and edge markings of 35mm film and make that an integral part of the image. Some people may consider it a cheap trick, but for others, it works. I've always kind of liked it.

@illawarraflametree welcome aboard, first of all! Thanks also for your writeup. I'm digging in my memory how I did this when I last experimented with shooting 35mm in a 120 back. I know I did this with a DaiYi 6x12cm back. This got me a really extreme aspect ratio panorama (it's like 35x115mm or so), which appealed to me. I took a roll of 35mm film, modified a 120 core to fit the 35mm cassette into, and then cut off a bit of backing paper to make a leader and tape the leader of the 35mm film onto that. Especially the DaiYi back is easy since you can just keep transporting film until you reach the end of the roll, which basically means it jams at that point. Open it up in the darkroom and unload the film. I couldn't swap a roll in the field (I might have using a changing bag), but I never really saw the need for it anyway. On the Mamiya I don't really recall how I did it except that I also just used a 35mm cassette and modified 120 spools.

Ultimately, I gave up on it (I'll revisit it at some point) because I mostly intended to shoot color film using the 6x12 back, and that really didn't work very well. The problem with 35mm film in a medium format camera is that the film tends to curl inward along the edges. This has two effects: (1) focus is only spot on in the center of the frame, with the image sliding out of focus along the top and bottom edges, and (2) light bouncing around behind the sprocket holes creates secondary exposure through the back of the film. Both effects tend to be worse on larger backs (so 6x4.5 wasn't half as bad as 6x12) since the curling problem just gets worse the longer the piece of film in the exposure gate is. With color film, the problem of the secondary/halation exposure was particularly bad because it totally messes up not just contrast, but also color balance along the edges. There was just no way to print those images in the darkroom, which is what I wanted to do. Even digital color correction gave mediocre results.

You can actually see the curving problem in one of the images on the page linked to by @xya.

Here's some of my attempts from back then:

View attachment 403044

View attachment 403045

This was stopped down pretty far so as to have the depth of field solve the problem with focus. But as you can see, color along the sprocket holes was a bit of a problem.
I still have a vague plan of revisiting this experiment using Kodak Vision3 film with remjet backing, which should be more immune to this problem. I didn't have access to that back when I made the images above, some 10 years ago.

Black and white worked sort of OK, especially in low contrast situations where the halation problem didn't play up that much:
View attachment 403046

I'm not familiar with the frame counter mechanism on your camera, but if this relies on friction of the film + backing paper along some kind of roller, then I can see how having just a single layer of paper along the edges with no film there being a problem.
I do think the sprocket holes really do add to those ultra wide panoramas, like saying you're using the entirety of the emulsion. I don't personally like sprocket holes when it feels like they're the only thing carrying the image, but usually in my experience that isn't the case :smile: I think you could also use the sprocket holes for deliberate artistic effect although I don't think I've seen too much of this. I don't know how I'd do it myself.

I love your images here so much, especially the ferns in black and white. It almost feels like the sprocket holes are hiding camouflaged among the foliage.

Thanks for the info on the curling/focus issues and sprocket halations. I'd love to try shooting Vision 3 with this setup actually, once I've worked out the details.
If you want to change films in daylight, you can feed the 135 film from one cannister into another, I did this with a P67 so I could shoot more than one roll during a session, but you do loose your last shot.

You can make a insert/gate that helps flatten the film, but you loose the sprockets. Again, I made one for my P67.

I put some thin rubber tape on the feed roller where the film ran so it would turn the roller, and count frames. Typically 120 film is pinched between 2 rollers at the edge to meter the film, with a bit of rubber or roughness on the roller to ensure traction. If the roller and film metering mechanism gets stiff, you often get bad frame spacing. A CLA on the back usually fixes that.

I found 36exp roll worked just right with a 220 setting, it works out to about the same length of film. I think I only got 19 frames on a 36exp film.

Kodachrome was not available in 120 when I was doing this. And using bulk rolled B&W was easier with 135 film.
I thought about using a second canister... I might do that... But I really don't want to lose the last frame. For me it's worth it to use a changing bag. To get that extra frame (after all I'm doing this whole song and dance with the paper leader just to save some emulsion).

I hope I can get this frame counter issue sorted out. I'll see about CLAing this back anyway as it kind of desperately needs it.
 

Donald Qualls

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I thought about using a second canister... I might do that... But I really don't want to lose the last frame.

One option if you can bulk load is to splice on an appropriate length of leader at each end of the film, That plus taking up into a cassette would allow daylight film changes. I bought a roll of 35 mm leader stock with that exact intent, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.
 
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illawarraflametree
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I've just had a go at running a test with 135 on the 120 holder and the film advance works exactly as expected with no modifications, although I noticed that the winding mechanism applies a downward pressure on the bottom spool holding nub thingy which can cause the top of the adapter to get unseated. I'm not entirely sure if this is a problem — the film might develop a kink but I reckon it should straighten out when passing under the border of the gate. I've had a spool had gotten a little bit unseated on the bottom before with a 120 roll as well, although it was a one off and I think that was because I didn't lock it in place properly. When that happened I tested it with a deliberately unseated spool and the everything still seems to travel exactly as it should, but I imagine this kind of incorrect loading can eventually end with misaligned film especially in the case of 135. These things are pretty finnicky, whenever you have to troubleshoot issues you can appreciate why 35mm is such a dominant format even though it generally takes a lot of control out of your hands.

I still have what I estimate to be 8 or 9 exposures left on the first live test roll. If I weren't such a penny pincher I'd just shoot some random things and see what I got, but I want to give this roll the best chance it can get, even if it's dubious that it'll come out well or at all. I did take some shots that I really hope came out... not knowing is part of the fun of analogue for me!
I found it much easier to use Pentax 6x7 or Fujica 690 for 35mm panorama: the film path is simpler and less stress on the winding mechanism. All film back based solution introduces a bit more friction.

I also feed one 35mm canister to another, so I can avoid using film change bag in the field.
I think I may sacrifice some emulsion if I want to travel light. I did feel the extra friction when I was winding the 35mm, didn't know that it was a particular issue with removal backs. At this time I only have one camera per format (Minolta SRT Super for 135, a Crown Graphic for LF, and an RB67 for 120 — the modularity and ability to shoot a bunch of different formats was a major selling point for me and if not for the weight I might consider this the greatest widespread camera system ever built).
Welcome to Photrio! I type with one finger so I'll keep this brief 😀 😎

Keep us posted on your progress!
Thank you! I plan to keep adding to this thread until I get satisfactory and repeatable results and then I'll edit the main post to include my process. I can relate, I have an as yet unknown issue with my joints (still getting tested) that makes typing a bit painful. I try to use talk to text and gesture typing as much as possible as these things really reduce the strain.
One option if you can bulk load is to splice on an appropriate length of leader at each end of the film, That plus taking up into a cassette would allow daylight film changes. I bought a roll of 35 mm leader stock with that exact intent, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.
This would be the best of both worlds and I'll definitely start doing it if I get into bulk loading.
 

Donald Qualls

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The turn around rollers on my 120 inserts are different from the one in my 220 insert (though that may be due to different generations; my 120 units are Pro and the 220 is ProS), If you examine your 220 insert, you'll see that there's a rubber(ish)-coated ring at the upper end; that's the only part that engages the frame counter. On the 120 backs (as least mine) the entire roller is one piece.

What you report with your 120 insert may indicate a problem with the bottom spool pivot -- the spring may be weak, or it might not have been fully in the hole in the adapter/spool. I've never seen this with any of my RB67 backs (2 120, 1 120 6x4.5, and a 220).
 
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illawarraflametree
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Luckily for me, those are the exact backs and generations that I've got, so that info is super useful! You guys have been quite helpful in offering some enlightenment on this issue all over the thread. That also explains why the film counter advances as expected on the Pro 120 back but not the Pro-S 220 back. A bit of tape should help there once I finish off the roll already inside. Looking forward to being able to rely on the film counter :smile: will update when I finish the roll. I've decided that I'll probably sacrifice a roll of ColorPlus for some visual testing with the darkslide removed once I'm done shooting. Feels bad to waste a stock I've never used before but I've read it's quite similar to Gold and it was the cheapest stuff at my lab. I only need to make sure I'm lining up the leader so potentially I could still shoot the rest of the roll... although I also want to keep it around for any future experimentation I might do with future backs or cameras or whatever else (as unlikely as I am to buy them).
 

k.hendrik

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16 x 70 format

one step futher :wink: 16mm film (Kodak TriX/ D76 1+1 12')+ RZ67 50mm lens
adapter; two plastic rings on 120 spool.

happy shooting
 

Donald Qualls

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A bit of tape should help there once I finish off the roll already inside.

I found tape didn't stay in place well. Hence why I wound up using the tiniest drop of thick super glue, applied with great care. Also, my method didn't affect use of actual 220 film (I've got a few rolls of Shanghai GP3 in that format, and will likely buy more at some point).
 

MCB18

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Welcome to Photrio!

I have done this a couple of times, and I have to say it’s a pretty fun experience!

I see that most of your initial questions have been answered, so I’ll just post a summary of my process. Unfortunately I can’t seem to find any of the scans, but if I find them I’ll post them later!

To load and unload film, I roll 35mm film in backing paper, similar to 220 film. This lets me shoot the roll just like a regular MF roll, which is super convenient.

For VF masking, I printed out some transparencies that I can put between the focus screen and my prism. It works very well!

I also put a bit of red electrical tape around the counter roller to ensure that it meters the film correctly.

I’m actually thinking about maybe shooting a double length roll of film (10 ft) in my 70mm back to test for light leaks and just for poops and giggles. 40 panoramas in a single load sounds pretty cool NGL.
 

Besk

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FWIW, Mercury Camera Co. makes a 35mm Pano kit to convert the RB 67 back to handle 35mm film. It replaces the film gate of the back with one with a 35mm 24x67 opening. That should help film flatness. They don't address the film counter as well as is discussed here.
 
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