Multi-Image in 2020

cptrios

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Ok, I have nothing to add here, except that I've never seen this stuff and it's extremely cool. Thanks for bringing it up!
 

UnderwoodPhoto

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If I remember my ancient history I did this with a reel to reel tape recorder using the 4 tracks. Audio tones from speaker output ran directly into the projectors.
 
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perkeleellinen

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The third projector decided to play along without any intervention - just started working this afternoon:


Some of those carousels have only a few slides in them, hence the occasional skip.

Screen shot of the programme showing all three projectors recognised:



I'm going to write this all up clearly in the resources section in case anyone else follows me down this road.
 
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perkeleellinen

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UnderwoodPhoto said:
If I remember my ancient history I did this with a reel to reel tape recorder using the 4 tracks. Audio tones from speaker output ran directly into the projectors.
Click to expand...

Yes, perhaps you used a machine made by AVL or Arion. I did think of doing it this way but I thought there'd be even less tech support than using a laptop.
 

MattKing

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Warms my heart .
 

Lars Jansen

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This is great! I got three Kodak Ektapro 5000's gifted together with a host of those Stumpfl boxes where the included software, according to the previous owner, does not want to work on anything more modern then Windows XP. I think going the EktaproGUI road will be much more practival then trying to get those Stumpfl boxes working on any recent OS.
 

Donald Qualls

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Two words, @Lars Jansen : Virtual Box

You can run XP in a virtual box on any newer version of Windows, or Linux, or Mac.
 

mshchem

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My work had a 6 projector set up rear projection for sales and marketing. Stuff just got abandoned, I took home a Ektagraphic a nice leather case. I dumped out slides all in anti newton glass mounts. I know that I saved those slides for years, not sure they survived my last move.
 
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perkeleellinen

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Here's a little video of a sync test using two Ektapro 9010 projectors - one second hard cut. The alignment isn't quite there but I was interested to see if it would work at all. I did try this with three projectors but becuase I have only 11 slides the projectors got a bit fussy. They work well with full carousels. Shot with an Nikon F5 on a tripod and slides mounted into Wess pin registered mounts. Imagine, if you will, three full carousels, 240 slides, projecting at around 3fps set to music.

 

jmlynek

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Hi there,

I owned a company that produced multi-image shows in the 80's. We used Electrosonic controllers but the most popular were AVL Dove controllers. Each controller drove 3 projectors. You can buy AVL Doves on Ebay for peanuts. To program the Doves you will need an old PC running C/PM and the AVL software as well as a tape deck with at least two channels, one for the audio and the other for the clock track to synchronize the sound and images. Four channels would be better because you can have 2-channel stereo, a third channel for the clock track and the fourth channel for the final sync track so the show will run without the computer.

To align your projectors, you can buy slide projector alignment slides. However, even using Wessmounts, the images from a regular camera will not align one frame to the other. For perfect alignment, you need an optical camera with pin registration.

This was a very expensive and tech-oriented business and trying to recreate it from scratch will be challenging.

Just let me know if you want to know anything else about multi-image and I'll try to help.

You can also take a look at this site, http://www.stevenmichelsen.com/AVL/.

Hope this helps.
 
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perkeleellinen

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Thanks very much, Jack! I did indeed consider the AVL Controllers but that seemed almost impossible to recreate. This is my compromise at trying to recreate some of those magical shows.
 

jmlynek

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perkeleellinen said:
Thanks very much, Jack! I did indeed consider the AVL Controllers but that seemed almost impossible to recreate. This is my compromise at trying to recreate some of those magical shows.
Click to expand...
I Just noticed that you're in England. Take a look at Electrosonic controllers. That's what we used and they're a British company. You should be able to find some equipment that is self-contained that doesn't require a computer.
 
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perkeleellinen

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Thanks, Jack, I'd never heard of Electrosonic. They are still in business it seems but not manufacturing AV equipment. I was able to find an instruction manual online for a unit and that helped me to see how these were programmed - that had always been a mystery to me. A few interesting units with built in tape decks on eBay.
 

jmlynek

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The computer-controlled version was controlled by an Apple II computer with two proprietary Electrosonic boards installed that output the clock track and the other connected to a controller that was daisy-chained to the other controllers.

The computer program was written in Apple Basic. The programmer visited our company when he came to Canada. It was amazing what those Apple II computers could do.
 

John Francis

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Hi All

Just found this thread when I searched for Dataton!

Dataton also produced a PC version called Micsoft for MsDos so users were no longer limited to using an Apple.
I used and still have an Imatronic system (SX4000) which runs 12 projectors, computer programmed and run from a cassette tape, Imatronic (AV) is no longer in business.
I also have the following:

A Dataton setup again which currently can run 12 projectors but vastly expandable
Arion Mirage 702 for 2 Ektapro's
Arion Mirage 902 for 2 Carousel S-AV's
Arion Design 16 programmer with the earlier kodak dissolve adapters (made by Arion) Arion is no longer in business
Rollei MD 216 and a MD 230 for 2 projectors
Imatronic SX Nugget for 2 projectors

I used an Imatronic modified Denon cassette deck which provided stereo plus a control track but now I have some Tascam's which were designed for the purpose

One of the above posts mentioned alignment issues but didn't give much detail as to whether it was about precise matching of images or simply aligning the projectors.
The longer the focal length of the projector lenses the easier it is to get an aligned image on the screen. However if you only have a short projection distance there is the option of using perspective control lenses often available on eBay.

Here are details of some books which are probably available on eBay or from secondhand booksellers:
The Great slide Show Book - Alan Scott ISBN 0-7136-2461-2
Slides Planning and Producing slide Programs - Kodak ISBN 0-87985-291-7
Image, Images ,Images - Kodak ISBN 0-87985-327-1
The Guide to Multi-Image - Julien Biere ISBN 3-7231-0008-2
The Audio-Visual Handbook - Alan McPherson & Howard Timms ISBN 0-7207-1778-7

I hope that the above may be of some interest.

Regards
John
 
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perkeleellinen

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Thanks very much for this information, John. I know about a few of those books but not the Scott one which I think I'll now hunt down. Interesting also about the various systems you have used.

I am still chipping away at this project, over the summer I've shot quite a few sequences and if I can get my friends to risk their lives more on skateboards I'll try to shoot a few more ready for mounting over the winter. I am trying to align the images with quite a short throw - 75mm - in a small room. I have an Elmo 50mm pc lens and wish I could find two more! I'm currently using Ektapro 75-120 lenses.

John, did you used to work in the multi-image industry?
 

John Francis

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Hi Steve

No I didn't work in the industry it was and still is just a hobby. By the Scott book was published by Black (London?)

I originally had one slide projector, a Philips open reel recorder and an outboard Philips synchronizer which put a beep on the tape. On replay the synchronizer read the beep and triggered the projector to change.
Went one evening to a Leica show in Headington (North Oxford) and saw a twin projector dissolve show and of course had to upgrade. Originally I got the Animatic Convar dissolve unit with a pair Agfacolor 250 projectors. then Imatronic started and put the Animatic out of business.
Eventually I upgraded to the Imatronic Triangle which controlled 3 projectors then got second Triangle and projectors which allowed for two images side by side on screen.
When Imatronic released the SX4000 which controlled 4 projectors I got one after selling the Triangle's. I then purchased the SX expansion unit which added another 8 projectors, I was now using 12 Leica Pradovit CA 2500 & CA2502 projectors with extra lenses and a custom screen 18ft x 6ft. I did give shows to various clubs in England
After coming to Australia in1999 I discovered that here Carousels were the projectors of choice although optically not a patch on Leica lenses. I now have 9 Carousel S-AV 2020/2050 projectors, then an Ektrapro sort of fell into my hands so now I have 5 of them hence getting the Dataton kit to run them.

My Rollei dissolve units are for my 2 Rollei P66 s medium format projectors.

Hopefully you are going to get some good sequences to entertain yourself and friends.

John
 
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perkeleellinen

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I first thought a Dataton kit would work for me but it was so confusing trying to work out exactly what I needed and without any technical support I thought I'd never get whatever I bought to work. Even now I'm still unsure what Dataton kits work to program Ektapros.
 

John Francis

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The minimum Dataton that you would need is:
Dataton Pax x1
Cable 3475 x3 (connects Ektapro to the Pax) I per projector in use
Mic3 hand controller x 1
A suitable cassette/tape deck to record the sequence for playback
User guides!

None of the Dataton is available new now so it's out but not much of it on eBay (a lot of European & American sellers don't want to ship to Australia)


Regards
John
 
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