Moving up from a Lubitel 166B TLR?

[xya]

I had a lubitel 2 when I was a kid, I was into photography already then. it was a decent camera and it worked for years. I moved on to a used mamiya c2 when I was an arts student. I still own this one as a back-up and it still works fine. all my artist photographer's life I stayed with the mamiya c series. I tried others, but in the end they were no better for me. so I would vote for a mamiya c. if you are patient, they are as cheap as a lubitel...

 

[AndyH]

I had a Lubitel once, and found it to be mechanically awful, although the lens on my example wasn't bad. It sounded like I was grinding metal walnuts when I cranked the shutter. My impression is that the mechanical build quality was uniformly bad, but the optics could be hit or miss. Unfortunately, if you got a good lens, the film transport or shutter was likely to let you down.

I also used a friend's Flexaret once, and found it to be a perfectly lovely camera, with a surprisingly sharp Tessar copy lens and a build quality that did not at all feel the usual Eastern Bloc level. They're still available pretty cheaply and are greatly underrated in my opinion. Here's a list of currently available ones on eBay, and you should be able to find more at local stores or auction sites:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...9323&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=flexfit&_osacat=625

Andy

 

[Dali]

I had a lubitel 2 when I was a kid, I was into photography already then. it was a decent camera and it worked for years. I moved on to a used mamiya c2 when I was an arts student. I still own this one as a back-up and it still works fine. all my artist photographer's life I stayed with the mamiya c series. I tried others, but in the end they were no better for me. so I would vote for a mamiya c. if you are patient, they are as cheap as a lubitel...

Cheap as a Lubitel, I am not sure if you want a complete camera....

That said, the Mamya C serie is a real workhorse. I bought mine used more than 30 years ago and it never let me down.

 

[brainmonster]

I may take a for after, those look amazing! Seems like a little better quality than the lubitel, and still cheap.

I also found the praktisix, a slightly older version of the Pentacon 6, which can be found at a reasonable price. So I’m considering that too.

 

[Huss]

...

Really, most decent folders that you can find for under $100 would have a better lens than the Lubitel if you're ok with zone focussing..

My Lubitel had a better lens than my Zeiss Ikon Nettar.

 

[John Koehrer]

cramej's suggestion of a folder is a good idea. Same size negative, very compact(for 6X6) and light. I'm
not familiar with them but look for 120 folder on the bay and you'll find a few hundred.
Many use guestimation focus but there are some with rangefinders.

You REALLY have to check with us before you bid/buy. The first listing when I searched listed a Zeiss Ikon as a 6X9
but the lens is a 75mm so it's really a 6X4.5.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...mera.TRS0&_nkw=120+folding+camera&_sacat=3326

 

[brainmonster]

So I've narrowed it down to a Kiev 6C or 60, a Praktisix, or a Flexaret, what do you all think? I'm leaning towards the Praktisix since it's an earlier model of the Pentacon 6.

I'm mostly looking for something with a better viewfinder. I'm thinking that the Kiev or Praktisix either would be better, since the Lubitel viewfinder is extremely painful to use.

 

[MattKing]

A Lubitel, a Kiev 6C or 60, a Praktisix, or a Flexaret.
Are you good with doing your own repairs?

 

[brainmonster]

A Lubitel, a Kiev 6C or 60, a Praktisix, or a Flexaret.
Are you good with doing your own repairs?

Not at all. I'm looking for something with a better viewfinder than the Lubitel though.

 

[MattKing]

If I were in Honolulu, I would be looking toward Japan, not eastern Europe.
Although a Rolleicord is always worth considering.

 

[BrianShaw]

Although a Rolleicord is always worth considering

You can say that again.

 

[brainmonster]

Believe it or not, it took less than 2 weeks to get to me from Ukraine. I think it'd be the same or longer from Japan. From China, stuff still takes 2 months...

And the shipping is about the same, or more, shipping outward of Japan costs a fortune. Plus, anyone can order stuff from Japan, the Mamiyas, etc., are all quite desireable by collectors, and still expensive. Maybe you save a few bucks living in Hawaii on shipping, but not much. Worldwide shipping may cost the same, I think, regardless of where you live, and I (think) priority mail costs the same anywhere in the US, including Hawaii.

Plus, a lot of that stuff from Japan has thorium in it, which I want to avoid. I know there's been many discussions of it and a lot of people consider it safe, but I want to avoid it in my family home.

Probably play with my Lubitel until it breaks, assuming the pictures come out OK, just was getting frustrated with it. Probably think about the next 120 camera to get after it does break, since 120 film is pretty expensive to shoot anyway, I'll probably be doing more 35mm in any case until then.

 

[summicron1]

Did you ever put flocking material in it? I don't even know where to put the material, but I’ve heard people recommend it.

you can buy self-adhesive flocking material in sheets at the hobby store for a buck or so -- cut it to fit and completely line the inside of the film chamber with it -- the biggest problem those cameras have is internal reflections off of the shiny plastic -- the flocking cures that. Early Rolleiflex cameras used the exact same thing before they switched to flat black paint and baffles.

But flocking works great. Coat the entire inside -- including the front face around the lens.

you can pick up a Rolleicord for about $100.

 

[btaylor]

Although a Rolleicord is always worth considering.

+1!
I have a Rolleicord V. Bought it about 40 years ago. One of my very favorite cameras to use, more keepers than any other camera I have owned. Fabulous lens. Simple, reliable, lightweight, small.

 

[AgX]

Plus, a lot of that stuff from Japan has thorium in it, which I want to avoid. I know there's been many discussions of it and a lot of people consider it safe, but I want to avoid it in my family home.

Then buy soviet lenses. I do not know of any radiactive soviet consumer lens.

 

[macfred]

If I were in Honolulu, I would be looking toward Japan, not eastern Europe.
Although a Rolleicord is always worth considering.

You can say that again.

Yes, I guess a Rolleicord would be the best choice.
--
Definitely worth a look: Yashica TLR models on eb.. (mostly from Japanese sellers - often in good condition and for adequate prices) - from the early 50's Yashicaflex to the later Yashica 66 series knob- and crank models.
Overview Yashica TLR series : http://www.yashicatlr.com/DocsLarge/YashicaTLRModels.jpg

 

[cramej]

the Mamiyas, etc., are all quite desireable by collectors, and still expensive.

Nice Mamiya 6 folders can be found for less than $150 from Japan. 645 and 6x6, nice lens, "in-body" focusing, rangefinder. I was just looking at these last night and quite tempted to pick one up.

Plus, a lot of that stuff from Japan has thorium in it, which I want to avoid.

I don't know where you have heard this, but it is simply wrong. Many manufacturers used thorium in lenses but there are not a lot of lenses that it was used in. Even if a lens does have thorium in it, the exposure is so small it takes years of exposure to even equal what you get from dental x-rays.

 

[Ces1um]

Not at all. I'm looking for something with a better viewfinder than the Lubitel though.

Try the lubitel 166+ from Lomography. It's got a split prism viewfinder- much easier to focus. It's not as cheap as I'd like it to be, but having both the 166B and 166+ I can tell you the build quality is the same. The only thing I've noticed is that lomography's version lacks the light seals that the original has. However- because it doesn't have that seal, the back of the camera opens and closes with much greater ease.

 

[Luckless]

I would argue that $150 is somewhat of an awkwardly small budget to 'move up' from any camera.

It isn't impossible, but working with only $150 means you're relying on some dice tossing, and probably taking a chunk of time to squeeze a really trustworthy camera that's at least mid-ranged. However if you're waiting around for months while shopping for a great deal on that $150, then it would make sense to toss a few extra bucks in the pot every month or two and slowly open up more options...

But if you do stretch your budget up to a Mamiya TLR, or find a really sweet deal on one, be warned that it may taint your view on other TLRs. I started off with a C330f as my first medium format camera, and now trying to use lovely cameras like a Rolleicord [specifically added to my collection as a lighter 'every day carry' alternative to the C330...] can sometimes feel frustrating when I try to push it into taking photos that the C330 wouldn't have batted an eye at...

That bellows focus is a blessing and a curse: Far too easy to get accustomed to it, and then have it in the back of my mind that every camera should be able to be used for shots like that...

 

[anthonym3]

I recently acquired a Lubitel 166B but I haven't finished a roll yet. I'm wondering, what is out there to "move up" from this camera in MF these days? I've heard that this camera is inferior to Yashica, Mamiya, etc. models. due to Russian construction and poor optics.

But for the price, I think it's pretty good and I wanted it to get me started in medium format.

However, if it ever were to break, I'd like to replace it with a better model. I'm thinking about a Kiev 6C (Pentacon 6 copy), how is this camera? Or a Kiev 88, but it looks like it's difficult to find one in good condition. A Kiev 6C can be found for maybe $100 without a lens, is this a decent deal? Or maybe an old Soviet Iskra camera, but it seems like it might be risky because of the bellows being fragile.

I'm looking to spend maybe $150 max (for now) on a medium format camera. Is this realistic? Or is the Lubitel a decent enough MF camera that I can stick with it over the more expensive models.

Also, do I need to worry about thoriated eyepieces or lenses with these old soviet cameras? I've heard the soviets did not have the technology to use thorium, so it's nothing to worry about (plus they used outdated designs).

Not worried about the lenses so much as the eyepieces, which I've heard can actually be a little bit harmful and there's regulations against.

 

[anthonym3]

Look into the ZEISS/IKON IKOFLEX tlr's. They are very well built and many of the later models have coated NOVAR or TESSAR lenses. I have found three on E-BAY for less than $ 75.00. Most of the sellers believe they are broken because they are not familiar with the somewhat complex film advance but it is simple to learn. Go to butkus.org where you will find free user manuals.

 

[AndyH]

You can still find Flexaret, Yashica, Minolta Autocord, Konica, Ricohflex, Ikoflex, and a couple of others at under $150. Just be sure it's advertised as in "working" condition, and the worst you'll be out is the shipping cost. Look for a "Tessar type" lens instead of a triplet, and a decent focusing screen. Lower end TLRs are one of the few remaining bargains in the medium format field. Good luck!

Andy

 

[anthonym3]

You can still find Flexaret, Yashica, Minolta Autocord, Konica, Ricohflex, Ikoflex, and a couple of others at under $150. Just be sure it's advertised as in "working" condition, and the worst you'll be out is the shipping cost. Look for a "Tessar type" lens instead of a triplet, and a decent focusing screen. Lower end TLRs are one of the few remaining bargains in the medium format field. Good luck!

Andy

I disagree on one point,IKOFLEX cameras were not "lower end",if anything they are over engineered,very robust,reliable and with excellent lenses.

 

[AndyH]

I disagree on one point,IKOFLEX cameras were not "lower end",if anything they are over engineered,very robust,reliable and with excellent lenses.

You are quite right in that they were in no way low-end in their day. Lower end on the used market is the phrase I should have used. I think that problems with the film advance and focusing mechanisms have been known to be troublesome at times and that's why they end up at the lower tier pricewise these days. I bought one from the 1950s for less than a hundred bucks on eBay just a couple of years ago, which is far less than it should be selling for.

Plenty in the under $200 range, even today.... including some of the late model, top end versions.

​

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...0.Xikoflex+.TRS0&_nkw=ikoflex+camera&_sacat=0

There are a few that seem to be quite high priced, but this seems to be based more on scarcity than usability.

Andy

 

[anthonym3]

You are quite right in that they were in no way low-end in their day. Lower end on the used market is the phrase I should have used. I think that problems with the film advance and focusing mechanisms have been known to be troublesome at times and that's why they end up at the lower tier pricewise these days. I bought one from the 1950s for less than a hundred bucks on eBay just a couple of years ago, which is far less than it should be selling for.

Plenty in the under $200 range, even today.... including some of the late model, top end versions.

​

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...0.Xikoflex+.TRS0&_nkw=ikoflex+camera&_sacat=0

There are a few that seem to be quite high priced, but this seems to be based more on scarcity than usability.

Andy