Microdol X Homebrew Question

[Tom1956]

Firstly, accept my apologies for starting yet another thread on the matter. I've read the archives as much as I can stand it, but remain unclear. Hopefully this thread can fade into oblivion early on. OK, lets dive in. I have some sulphite, elon, and salt. I want to make Microdol-X Substitute out of it, for the customary 1:3 usage. I've seen 2 formulas, one with 7.5/100 g +30g NaCl, and 5/100 g + 30 NaCl. So, which is right, the 5g elon or the 7.5? Remember, I'm doing the 1:3 gig. Thank you.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Neither of them are authentic Mic-X, but both are suitable. 5 gram of Metol per litre is the one that is usually recommended.

Another option that works perfectly well is this formula below.

Water at around 40*C 750ml

Metol (Elon) 7.5 grams
Sodium sulphite, anhydrous 100 grams
Sodium metabisulphite 7.5 grams
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

Use it the same way as if you are using Kodak Microdol-X that was sold by Kodak.

 

[Tom1956]

Thanks, Keith. That's 1 vote for the 5g formula. I'm tempted to just run with it. If another reply comes in saying that, this thread can fade away, and I'll be happy enough. The anti-silvering/dichroic fog agent is something that will never be known.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

And don't forget this:

https://www.google.com/patents/US24...a=X&ei=CnvMUuC4AcHGrgHnqIG4DQ&ved=0CE4Q6AEwAw

though as Michael says, it's a bit unclear in terms of what was in the actual packaged developer.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I have the following formula.

This developer contains the same chemicals as Kodak Microdol-X™ Liquid
and produces similar results. This formula produces fine grain and low fog
with little sludging tendency. Grant Haist gives a formula for a salt containing
formula and attributes it to Edgar Hyman.

Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Sodium citrate ………………………………………………………………… 2.0 g
Metol ………………………………………………………………………………………… 5.0 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 100 g
Sodium chloride ……………………………………………………………… 30 g
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Citrate is a cheap chelating agent for calcium. This is to prevent any calcium scum from forming when the developer is diluted with tap water. The dry packaged version of Microdol-X was slightly different in composition but the difference was not meaningful to the user. Sodium hexametaphosphate and boric acid are user instead of the citrate.

 

[Tom1956]

Well, another curiosity I just found out about on Wikipedia. Of course we're talking about non-iodized salt in this formula. So that meant I'd have to dig deep in my pocket to buy a tube of non-iodized this evening at the grocery store. But behold, according to this indisputable source, the iodine in salt "goes away" in about a month after you open the salt package. We'll I've had my tube of salt for about 2 years, so I guess that means I can save a whole dollar on this venture, and just use the iodized I've already got, huh?

 

[JW PHOTO]

Well, another curiosity I just found out about on Wikipedia. Of course we're talking about non-iodized salt in this formula. So that meant I'd have to dig deep in my pocket to buy a tube of non-iodized this evening at the grocery store. But behold, according to this indisputable source, the iodine in salt "goes away" in about a month after you open the salt package. We'll I've had my tube of salt for about 2 years, so I guess that means I can save a whole dollar on this venture, and just use the iodized I've already got, huh?

Hmmmm! I have never heard of iodine leeching out of iodized salt, but who know????

 

[Tom1956]

The part I don't get is I've always thought it was the 7.5 g formula. So by the time I dilute 1:3 and use 2 ounces of the stuff, at the 5g rate, to get the 8 total ounces of working solution in a Honeywell Nikor tank, how in the world would there be enough elon in the final quantity to handle a roll of film? By then, it doesn't seem like enough elon for a germ to hide behind.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Microdol and Microdol X are both in patents by Dick Henn of Kodak. There are several ingredients that are there in low quantity and are thus proprietary and not listed in any MSDS.

PE

 

[Tom1956]

Thanks. I see my little thread about my question has attracted some pretty credible names. I'll proceed knowing I had the best information to be found on the matter. Thus confidence is inspired here. I appreciate it. I've decided to cut out these cameras I own that are really beyond my means, or rather I shouldn't be owning the way things are. I'm returning to just my Nikkormat and my 8x10 with the old Betax #4 12-inch. That's all I really need. Some Tri-X or T-max 400 and some Microdol 1:3 can do most anything that needs doing and pull it off quite well. Why do I need all this Hass and 4x5 stuff? More of a boat anchor than an oar.

 

[mrred]

Is there any reason why the msds wound up in the UCSF legacy Tobacco Documents Library? What exactly were those unspecified ingredients? here

 

[Tom1956]

Thank you. But this is a matter of having the word of a Kodak chemist of distinguished career, plus other posters I have come to regard as credible telling me something that my own 40 some-odd years in photography can conclude is probably true. Or a document from the library of an organization of conspiracy theorists from San Francisco academia.
As far as I'm concerned as the OP, the thread was satisfactorily concluded with post #13, and the daily board can be allowed to clear of this thread to make way for others.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

What exactly were those unspecified ingredients?

Developers can contain various ancillary chemicals that are not involved with development. They can be present to prevent foaming, sludge formation, etc. They can be anticaking agents, calcium chelating agents, wetting agents, etc. Their presence or absence will not effect the action of the developer. These chemicals are not usually available to the individual who is making his developers from scratch.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Please note the Sodium Citrate in post #6. It (or another sequestrant) is present but is not listed!

PE

 

[Tom1956]

Pardon my post #14. When I went to the referenced site and saw its existence, a whole lot of other questions were answered all of a sudden, and totally unrelated to photography.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Of course we're talking about non-iodized salt in this formula. So that meant I'd have to dig deep in my pocket to buy a tube of non-iodized this evening at the grocery store. But behold, according to this indisputable source, the iodine in salt "goes away" in about a month after you open the salt package.

UV light and oxygen cause the iodide ion to be oxidized to elemental iodine. However there is also the problem of getting the iodine out of the salt. Under conditions in the average home this does not seem to happen in any reasonable time. I have a box of iodized salt that is years old and every time I boil water for pasta I still smell the distinctive odor of iodine. So if iodine is present the problem is that any sulfite in the developer solution will reduce the iodine back to iodide. So the iodine really does not fully go away. Better to use Kosher salt which is very reasonable and readily available.

What one reads in Wikipedia should always be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Tom1956]

Well thanks all. So now I have 2 go-to developers of choice, both of which I can make out of ordinary household items--Microdol without the "X" for my 35mm, and Willi Beutler's for my 8x10 X-Ray film. Doesn't get any better, easier, or cheaper than that. And yes, elon and sulfite are considered ordinary household items. And I get my carbonate out of frying up a batch of baking soda. The only thing I have to worry about is getting goiter from switching to non-iodized salt.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Remember that most packages of grocery salt have anticaking agents in them, such as Sodium Silicate, and this does not help the photographic process! So, be careful.

PE

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Remember that most packages of grocery salt have anticaking agents in them, such as Sodium Silicate, and this does not help the photographic process! So, be careful.

PE

Forgot about that. Pickling salt is a better choice than Kosher salt since it contains nothing to cloud the brine. It may be hard to find for most of the year when people are not putting up preserves.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Household sugar has additives. I suggest looking at the patents for the specific sugars. They may be Xylitol or Sorbitol for example.

IDK. They were also used in the original Kodachrome process.

PE

 

[Tom1956]

Well as it turns out the non-iodided I bought last night has Sodium Silicoaluminate, whatever that is. I have no idea what that might do to my voodoo Microdol scheme. But it is noteworthy that the iodized I already had contained 3 other things besides salt--and one of them was Sodium Thiosulfate. Pretty neat, I could develop the emulsion and fix it at the same time. Wouldn't THAT have been lovely?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I once mixed up one of the SD developers using table sugar. It worked but was the only developer that I ever used that attracted ants.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The extra ingredients in most all household products is why I recommend buying "real" chemicals from a reputable dealier.

PE

 

[Tom1956]

The extra ingredients in most all household products is why I recommend buying "real" chemicals from a reputable dealier.

PE

I recommend it too--right after the property tax, and then the income tax, and then... So that means I have to "make do".