Microdol-X gone - recommended alternatives?

[Ian Grant]

AFAIK, hair dyes are now based on safer chemicals, at least in the US.

I experienced a reaction from a paraphenylenediamine developer many years ago. Blisters the size of peas and intense itching. The condition took two weeks to clear. I realize that not all people will experience a reaction but once you have you wish that you had avoided this class of chemicals.

Anyone using a phenylenediamine developer should exercize caution and use rubber gloves.

PPD is still in most Hair dyes even in the US. There are some companies making PPD free products.

Ian

 

[Gerald C Koch]

But keep in mind that for small negative format grain IS an issue. And loosing one F-stop for film speed is not too bad for a Leica lens.

If you are interested in fine grain, resolution, and film speed then read this very informative article, "The Genesis of Xtol," by Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadski (Photo Techniques Magazine, Vol. 20, No. 5, 1999, p. 62 ff).

Dickerson and Zawadski are the original developers of the Xtol formula.

 

[RobertV]

Robert, maybe I´m wrong but I think I see grain structure

Yes, you're wrong.

I am talking about at least 40x50cm prints from 35mm. Then you should compare different developers.

"The Genesis of Xtol," by Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadski

Thanks for the link.

About grain. Well you can use Tech Pan or the new Rollei ATP1.1 (A type of Copex film) if you want high resolution and almost zero grain. But then you need a special developer tuned on these type of film. Further the iso rate is 25 or lower. Even with the M7 iso 10 is going to be a problem handfree.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Paraphenylenediamine has been banned from use in hair-dyes in Germany, France and Sweden, because concerns arose about its harmful effects. Many other countries are also considering a ban. PPD has been implicated as the cause of an increase in bladder cancer in women who color their hair.

Some hair dyes now use derivatives of PPD which are claimed to be less troublesome.

 

[RobertV]

Raffay´s "Sammlung fotografischer Rezepte"

Page 86 gives the necessary information about the different CD's.

 

[A49]

I later found out that A49 uses a very special developing agent, CD-2, original a color developing agent, to make its features possible. Hydroquinone is the other agent. The formula seems to be be very similar to the Crawley FX 10 as described in the film developing cookbook on pages 68, 69 (1998 edition). At least the FX 10´s developing agents are included in A49.

According to Raffay´s "Sammlung..." I have to correct that A49 contains CD-1 and not CD-2. Therefore it is something like the Crawley FX 10 formula with CD-1 replacing the CD-2. Hope that there is and will be no problem with the supply of CD-1. Anyway, if CD-1 or CD-2, the results of A49 are outstanding and are comparable to Xtol´s regarding the speed exploitation and slighly better in the fine grain that is produced.

Best,
Andreas

 

[RobertV]

A49 are outstanding and are comparable to Xtol´s regarding the speed exploitation and slighly better in the fine grain

What I am missing in A49 is the sharpness. I am not convinced about that. Xtol is producing better negatives in that way.
When comparing A49 and CG-512 the last one is producing sharper negatives and about the same grain. Further CG-512 is easy in use. Just dilute 1+4 and go, even good results in rotary development (Jobo) and then very easy to maintain 24C. It's my regular rotary 35mm developer for a lot of films. The extra F-stop is not a problem in Leica photography. Iso 100 film is still iso 50 and we have a lot of iso 100 films for making a good choice.
CG-512 is also sold under Rollei Low Speed (RLS). it's a reference developer from Udo Raffay. About the name: Raffay needed 512 attempts/modifications before he was satisfied with the end result of this developer.

 

[RobertV]

Retro 100 TONAL E.I. 50 in CG-512/RLS 1+4
M7 + Summicron 2,0/50mm

Dutch cows with a snow dog.
I could not resist.......

 

[Ian Grant]

What's CG-512 ?

Ian

 

[A49]

What's CG-512 ?

Ian

CG-512 is a fine grain developer formulated by Udo Raffay in Germany and therefore mostly known here under this name. Rollei RLS is the same. Because of its good overall quality (aside from the -1 stop speed exploitation) CG-512 was long time the reference developer for a German darkroom amateur magazin.

Best,
Andreas

 

[A49]

When comparing A49 and CG-512 the last one is producing sharper negatives and about the same grain.

Thanks for this, Robert. These are good news for me. I always looked for something sharper than A49 but with nearly the same fine grain. I´ve already heard many good things about CG-512 but never ever anyone told me how good it is directly compared to A49. So I will try CG-512 in the next future and if it is as good as expected, what I hope, then I use it for my 35mm shots whenever loosing one stop is bearable.

Best,
Andreas

 

[RobertV]

Let's make it more practical: A Leica test (so 35mm) on the best ultra fine grain developers available.

We are choosing one regular iso 100 production film on the Fotohuis assortment and do the ultimate test.
Prints on 40x50cm.

Our developers under test:
W665 (Windisch), CG-512/RLS, Perceptol, A-49, Xtol or W27 Excel.

When doing Xtol, 4 ltrs. will float away to waste.....

Same camera (M7) same lens: Summicron 2,0/50mm (one of the best 35mm lenses available).

 

[michaelbsc]

Let's make it more practical: A Leica test (so 35mm) on the best ultra fine grain developers available.

We are choosing one regular iso 100 production film on the Fotohuis assortment and do the ultimate test.
Prints on 40x50cm.

Our developers under test:
W665 (Windisch), CG-512/RLS, Perceptol, A-49, Xtol or W27 Excel.

When doing Xtol, 4 ltrs. will float away to waste.....

Same camera (M7) same lens: Summicron 2,0/50mm (one of the best 35mm lenses available).

OK, you clearly seem to be presenting evidence that you have all of the materials required to perform this test.

I nominate you!!

If I can help somehow, but I don't see how, let me know and I'll participate.

Frankly, I am very interested in low light hand held pictures.

MB

 

[RobertV]

I nominate you!!

A very democratic decision from South Carolina, THANKS!

 

[A49]

Let's make it more practical: A Leica test (so 35mm) on the best ultra fine grain developers available.

We are choosing one regular iso 100 production film on the Fotohuis assortment and do the ultimate test.
Prints on 40x50cm.

Our developers under test:
W665 (Windisch), CG-512/RLS, Perceptol, A-49, Xtol or W27 Excel.

When doing Xtol, 4 ltrs. will float away to waste.....

Same camera (M7) same lens: Summicron 2,0/50mm (one of the best 35mm lenses available).

Oh, what a good idea, it sounds exciting. I´cant barely wait to see the results. If I could wish for two things then: Please use the Xtol what is said slightly better than the Excel, though this could be only rumours. I know the 5 liters are very inconvinient. And the second wish: Don´t use rotary processing. If any of the developers should produce at least small sharpness enhancing edge effects, you would loose them. By the way, A49 is not able to produce much edge effects. In my testing I could not even squeeze many of them out with very long stand development.

Good luck for testing! (If I had all the stuff at hand, I would start the same maybe with another 100 ISO film and we could compare the results. )

Best,
Andreas

 

[Ian Grant]

Was the formula for CG-512 ever published ?

Ian

 

[RobertV]

Xtol what is said slightly better than the Excel, though this could be only rumours.

Excel W27 is from original Polish: Foton (Bydgoskie Zakłady Fotochemiczne). This company was aquired by Foma. W stands for "wywoływacz" = Polish for developer. I am also learning every day about the past. Thanks to Mr. Dziadek.

Was the formula for CG-512 ever published ?

No CG-512 was never published and the owner of the receipt is CG in Hamburg, Mr. S. Suvatlar.
I am pretty sure he can sent the barrel to Compard GmbH in Geesthach, near Hamburg for filling up the Rollei bottles.

 

[RobertV]

Good luck for testing! (If I had all the stuff at hand, I would start the same maybe with another 100 ISO film and we could compare the results. )

No problem to sent you a set of all developers for testing. 50% is going to drain because in about two tests I am ready which is 2x240ml or 1x270ml. So 500ml and 300ml max. Most is then 1+1 (Xtol/W27, A49, Perceptol) or 1+4 (CG-512), only W665 is stock.

You're situated in Germany?

 

[mfohl]

Thanks Folks!

Thanks for the good tips, Folks. It looks like XTOL, Perceptol, and A49 are good choices. I shall try them. I hope that A49 is still available, and available in the U.S.

Cheers,

-- Mark

 

[A49]

Was the formula for CG-512 ever published ?

Ian

I´m also very curious about the "secret" formula. Is there at least something known about developing agents that are used in CG-512?

Andreas

 

[RobertV]

something known about devloping agents that are used in CG-512?

Metol, Sodiumsulfite are in the formulae.

 

[A49]

No problem to sent you a set of all developers for testing. 50% is going to drain because in about two tests I am ready which is 2x240ml or 1x270ml. So 500ml and 300ml max. Most is then 1+1 (Xtol/W27, A49, Perceptol) or 1+4 (CG-512), only W665 is stock.

You're situated in Germany?

Yes, I am. Thank you for your nice offer. I thought about it, but would prefer first to compare A49 and SPUR HRX III, that I heard some good things about. We could add our results then, rather than doubling it.

To show something practical from my past testing: Here are four scanned crops from 8x10 inch enlargements from Tmax 400 (unfortunately the old version) negatives that I had processed with different developers. I name them in the second picture with the crops. Three were at stock solution and T-MAX dev was at 1+4.

T-MAX 1+4 dev is actually somewhat closer in grain to Microphen and Negafin than it is to be seen, because I accidentally developed the T-MAX 1+4 negative to a lower contrast than the others which should have made the grain in the T-MAX 1+4 developed negative smaller.

With the new Tmax 400 film the grain would be less but I estimate that the relations between the developers would not change much. The enlarging scanning of prints surely brings sharpness and other problems with it, but I think a tendency can be seen. And for nothing more it is.

Best,
Andreas

 

[JohnArs]

CG-512 was long time the reference developer for a German darkroom amateur magazin.
Best,
Andreas

Yes this was the reference up to the time when they tested XTOL and found it the best over all parts!

Cheers Armin

 

[RobertV]

Yes this was the reference up to the time when they tested XTOL and found it the best over all parts!

THEY is: S/W Magazine (??) or Hobby Labor (??).
Can you give any publication or reference of this statement?

 

[A49]

Yes this was the reference up to the time when they tested XTOL and found it the best over all parts!

I know that you are very enthusiastic about Xtol. I´m interested in knowing where this comes from. Which developer did you use before and why did you replace it with Xtol? With which developers did you practically compare Xtol and why did they prove less good than Xtol?

Best,
Andreas