Metz in insolvency

miha · Jul 22, 2022

A real pity indeed! I have purchased 2 new Mecablitz flashes, the famous 45 and a smaller one (can't recall the model, not made in Germany, and it shows) to fit my digi camera, and a MZ32 S/H. Truly excellent instruments when still made in Zirndorf (?).

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 22, 2022

AgX said:
Metz Mecatech was dissolved in 2021

The rather new E-scooter branch survived, but the flash branch went under.

(This went even unnoticed by german photo press... which is telling.)

Sad. In the fog of Covid-19.

AgX · Jul 22, 2022

halfaman said:
I suppose that chinese competition was too much.

Chinese competion has affected the european manufacturers of studio flashes. Though even a european manufacturer actually producing in China went under too.

Metz was affected by the collapsing market for on-camera flashes. First more advanced cameras got incorporated flashes that seemingly many amateurs found sufficient, then with digital cameras the sensitivity was cranked up. Since many years I have not seen a new on-camera flash of any brand offered at a camera store.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Sad. In the fog of Covid-19.

As you can read in this thread the trouble at Metz started many years before the pandemic. I do not even imagine any negative effect. And by then their offer was already shrunk.

fs999 · Jul 22, 2022

AgX said:
Since many years I have not seen a new on-camera flash of any brand offered at a camera store.

Not talking for Godox...

AgX · Jul 22, 2022

Never came across a Godox.

AgX · Jul 22, 2022

What Metz maybe to be blamed for is that they were late with wireless control of remote flashes. But there are better informed fellows on this here to tell.

cmacd123 · Jul 22, 2022

and every make of Camera seems to offer (or did offer) a dedicated flash, with dire warning not to use another brand. With my collection of Canon Cameras, I have three distinct generations of Canon Flashes. (and have to remember if I need to use the EX or the EZ with that body)

AgX · Jul 22, 2022

At least in the long past the german on-camera flash manufacturers reacted on this with the SCA system(s).

The consumer was told that it was to make a flash more versatile, to even wihstand a change of camera system. Which of course means that the industry themselves reduce the number of units possible to sell. But actually it was this industry's only chance to sell any modern flashes at all.

cmacd123 · Jul 22, 2022

At that time, the DM was stong and almost any German made equipment was more expensive than the Camera Makers own brand.

AgX · Jul 22, 2022

But all manufactures applied that system. But I am not sure about their export success. Flashes most common here are unheard of at Photrio.

Metz at least with their hammerhead flashes were world market leader. And it seems they were at export successfull too with their smaller flashes maybe in the drag of the former. But then I am still in the 80's and 90's.

halfaman · Jul 23, 2022

cmacd123 said:
and every make of Camera seems to offer (or did offer) a dedicated flash, with dire warning not to use another brand. With my collection of Canon Cameras, I have three distinct generations of Canon Flashes. (and have to remember if I need to use the EX or the EZ with that body)

For that was reason to choose Metz flashes over the Canon's. Metz have manual (with power levels) and auto modes in addition to the Canon flash system, so I can use them in any other camera. Canon speedlights are almost restricted to use in cameras of the same brand.

Anaxagore · Jul 24, 2022

I saw that when it happened.. so what are the TTL flash choices now for Rollei and Hasselblad, or other manufacturers that do not make their own flashes? Rollei may be able to use some Quantum flashes, not sure they are as easy to use though..

AgX · Jul 24, 2022

For all such flash-TTL cameras the solution could be (used) german SCA-flashes, if the appropriate adapter exists.

ic-racer · Jul 24, 2022

cmacd123 said:
and every make of Camera seems to offer (or did offer) a dedicated flash, with dire warning not to use another brand. With my collection of Canon Cameras, I have three distinct generations of Canon Flashes. (and have to remember if I need to use the EX or the EZ with that body)

Rollei stopped making their own professional flashes back in the early 1980s and built their TTL camera systems around Metz and SCA adapters.
A few years ago I was able to get a couple nice Metz 54MZ-4 units for my TTL Rolleiflex cameras.

fs999 · Jul 24, 2022

AgX said:
Metz at least with their hammerhead flashes were world market leader.

After the leader of flashes Braun leaved the market

AgX · Jul 24, 2022

That statement by Metz indeed was from the 80's.

But in old foreign footage I see Metz flashes used by press photographers, but hardly Braun flashes. And you may refer just to the 60's. But yes, Braun produced a great variety of flashes. And of course the leave of such competitor made it more easy for Metz.

AgX · Jul 24, 2022

But then we are at the basic problem, that we got no information on market share on practically any camera, lens or accessory.

Anaxagore · Jul 25, 2022

What happened to the remaining stock (I suppose it was left to dealers to sell little by little) and especially to the machines that were used to manufacture the flashes ? Did some other company buy these ?

Anaxagore · Jul 25, 2022

AgX said:
For all such flash-TTL cameras the solution could be (used) german SCA-flashes, if the appropriate adapter exists.

Are there other German SCA-flash manufacturers? If I am not mistaken, all the companies in the SCA consortium (Agfa, Regula, Osram, Cullmann, Braun, Bauer & others I am certainly forgetting) exited the market one after the other, leaving only Metz as sole SCA flash manufacturer.

AgX · Jul 25, 2022

Basically you are right (except that Bauer did not even join that consortium).

But you overlook that Metz Mecatech already had skipped offering their very last SCA flash few years before they went under as flash manufacturers.
This is why I had it above about "used" Metz flashes, unless one still finds such as NOS.

benjiboy · Dec 8, 2022

AgX said:
The last model from the Metz 45-series had already been cancelled in 2013, thus still in the good-old Metz days.

I've had and used a Metz 45 CT5 for more than thirty years, and when I sold photographic for a living I use to tell my customers that if they wanted to come home with pictures and not excuses, to buy a Metz 45, and although they were not cheap, they would do the job.

wiltw · Dec 8, 2022

It seems that the strength of the SCA system largely disappeared about the time of the dSLR and their xTTL flash exposure systems. While my 54MZ units could be made to work with different dTTL systems via the appropriate SCA module, Metz seemed to have abandoned that approach with their nnAF line of flash, dedicated to specific brands. I have a 64AF-1 for use with Canon digital camera flash automation, athough I have 4 other Metz flash units of hammerhead or on-camera speedlight design, all of whick I can use with the multiple brands and formats of film cameras (and digital, in the case of the 54MZ) I have no insight about why Metz changed its approach to offering 'dedicated for XYZ' flash units, as opposed to continuing with SCA-adaptable flash units.

cmacd123 · Dec 9, 2022

one thing is that the dedicated film flash units sometimes metered off the film, which does not work on digital cameras. I know the Canon Digitals actually fire the flash at reduced level, and measure the exposure beofore the mirror goes up, and they calutate the flash from that test value.

wiltw · Dec 9, 2022

cmacd123 said:
one thing is that the dedicated film flash units sometimes metered off the film, which does not work on digital cameras. I know the Canon Digitals actually fire the flash at reduced level, and measure the exposure beofore the mirror goes up, and they calutate the flash from that test value.

Film TTL using off-the-film metering of light, and the camera tells the flash 'stop outputting light' at the right amount of light seen at the film plane.

digital TTL does not work that way, the sensor surface is too shiny, so the digital camera instead commands 'preflash' (at a fixed, reduced amount of power) and meters what comes back from the preflash (and not off the sensor) and then sends a command 'flash at 1/n power' (based upon what it read during preflash).

A Metz 54MZ can do BOTH of the above, and it is an SCA compatible flash. A Metz 45CL4 Digital can do both of the above; the Metz 45CL4 cannot do a preflash, so is not compatible with Canon eTTL.

Rudeofus · Dec 13, 2022

wiltw said:
Film TTL using off-the-film metering of light, and the camera tells the flash 'stop outputting light' at the right amount of light seen at the film plane.

digital TTL does not work that way, the sensor surface is too shiny, so the digital camera instead commands 'preflash' (at a fixed, reduced amount of power) and meters what comes back from the preflash (and not off the sensor) and then sends a command 'flash at 1/n power' (based upon what it read during preflash).

A Metz 54MZ can do BOTH of the above, and it is an SCA compatible flash. A Metz 45CL4 Digital can do both of the above; the Metz 45CL4 cannot do a preflash, so is not compatible with Canon eTTL.

There is more to this than just "well, change the software to fire a preflash":

A TTL flash was fired by a thyristor and stopped by another thyristor. Thyristors are cheap electronic switches for high voltage and high current, but they could fire only one flash at a time. If you want to switch your flash on and off a couple of times in short succession, you need special MOSFETs. These are trivially available now, but require a complete redesign of the flash circuitry. These hammer head flashes had stronger strobes, and MOSFETs to handle these may not have been available right away. Semiconductors thrive on high volumes, and hammer head flashes were the exact opposite: demanding design, low sales numbers.
Signaling between camera and TTL flash used to be trivial: "fire flash" and "stop flash", both typically communicated through one or two signal lines. No issues with reverse engineering of vendor specific and ever changing camera-flash protocols.

Instead of leading the market with pro level flashes, Metz had to chase vendor protocols and special electronics while offering nothing unique. They had to make compromises in product quality (c.f. stuck flash mirror) in order to compete in prices. They made some bone headed decisions (make flash firmware update available only for Windows, poor service, ...), which saved nothing but cost a lot of good will (many hobby photographers are nerds&tinkerers by trade).

Metz in insolvency

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