Metering For Monochrome

[Sirius Glass]

When shooting black & white film I start with a general reading without the sky using the camera light meter and then use the Pentax Digital Spot Meter to get an adjustment for shadow detail followed by any filter adjustments.

 

[DREW WILEY]

It takes me mere seconds to operate a Pentax Spotmeter. The slowest part is simply putting on reading glasses or using a magnifying glass if needed, to read the dial in dim light.

 

[Watson]

So, if one uses the metering from a camera, isn't that the same as using P mode? although I guess you can use whatever f reading and change accordingly...Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

It doesn't necessarily have to be equivalent to 'P'.
If your camera has a through-the-lens meter, then Shutter-priority or Aperture-priority auto-exposure mode, or Program mode, or metered-Manual mode all use a reflected-light meter reading.
In a Program mode, cameras often have a program-shift function, where you can use the program, but bias it to favour a fast shutter at the expense of aperture more than the default program would; or the opposite, favouring stopping down at the expense of a slower shutter.

Then there's more variation available in how a TTL reflected-light reading is distributed across the frame: spot, centre-weighted average, etc.

I remember there being an accessory you could buy that's a diffuser-dome to fit the front of a standard lens, that even allows you to use the TTL meter for incident-light readings (fit the dome, and point the camera away from your scene, toward the light, to meter before taking your photo in manual). I think it must have been the 80s when I saw that. I never bought one.

Not all cameras have a through-the-lens meter. In some the meter cell just looks forwards off the face of the camera. That's still a reflected-light reading, unless it has a diffuser attachment for incident readings.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Not all cameras have a through-the-lens meter. In some the meter cell just looks forwards off the face of the camera. That's still a reflected-light reading, unless it has a diffuser attachment for incident readings.

Rolleiflexes with meters, for example.

I don't think twice about trusting the built-in meters in my Sony digital cameras. I can see instantly if it goofed, and correct on the fly. But I would never ever rely on a built-in meter to shoot film.

 

[DREW WILEY]

What real handheld spot meters are good at is not only reading small specific areas in the scene, but allowing one to quickly compare the full scene range you want to capture, all the way from the deepest shadows to the brightest highlights. What you do with that information is up to you - whether you change film development time accordingly to handle the contrast, like the Zone System teaches, or if you make intelligent compromises in terms of what is and is not essential to your own idea of composition - at least you know the real size of the ice rink you are skating upon. And in that respect, metering for black and white film is different than metering for color film. It's the boundaries that count, not the center.

 

[ic-racer]

Nikon Matrix metering is pretty nice. In terms of number of frames exposed, that would be the winner in my case.

Least used would be spot meter as I shoot way fewer 8x10 sheets than 35mm frames.

 

[chuckroast]

Sekonic and Pentax spot meter for MF and LF.

A Revini reflected meter when I am wandering around with one my stable of film Nikons or Leica IIIf. I also have been known to use a metering app on my phone in those circumstances.

On board meter for all things digital for my D-750, but I do vary between matrix, highlight weighted, and spot setting depending on settings. However, my only use of digital is for colour, which I realize is excluded from the OP's original scope.

 

[IMoL]

For me it depends on the camera and use case. On cameras with known "ok" light meters (i.e. that I have tested and found to be accurate enough), I will use it, and adjust in situations where I know reflective meters can be fooled.

On cameras without meters (which is about half the cameras I use) I use a Sekonic L-308S, both in incident and reflective mode depending on the light and situation. Sometimes I go without a meter and use Sunny-11 (not Sunny-16 at this latitude - 56° North) - I do this quite a bit with my plain prism Nikon F where I don't want to slow down too much, less so with medium format cameras.

Having said all that - I am mostly using HP5 and FP4 as my B&W film stocks, so the latitude of those means I can be off by a stop or two, so if in doubt, I overexpose by a stop.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Zone System users like spot meters and meter shadow values to determine exposure, then highlights to determine development.

Studio portrait photographers often like incident meters and/of flash meters and compare lighting ratios to achieve desired shadow illumination.

Small-camera users usually use the built-in meters, often just letting them do the work. They do a fine job in most situations and are more intelligent now than ever before.

Lots of ways to skin the cucumber; just be smarter than your meter

Doremus

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

I have a book by Roger Hicks and Frances Shultz called Perfect Exposure From Theory To Practice.
One of the sections is called Metering For Monochrome Negatives hence the title of this thread.

My 35mm SLR camera has a tendency towards slight under exposure at box speed, so choosing the next lower ISO number does the trick for me. TTL metering.

My RZ67 with auto-exposure prism needs to be set to two-thirds lower than box speed to get the kind of negatives that I like to enlarge. TTL metering again.

My Rolleiflex TLR is used with an incident meter and seems to work well at the films ISO rating.

I also have a Gundlach Korona 5x7 camera which I still haven't used yet and some FP4 Plus film which came with the camera.
That will be a something that I need to learn from scratch to get a decent negative. Hopefully I will be able to try it during the Christmas holiday if the weather permits.

Thank you all for replying.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

It depends on how I feel, the camera I am shooting with and the subject...

The Sekonic L-358 is gone now, there are some issues with the Gossen Variosix F (bad contact with the +5 diffusor dome) and the Spectra is the most complex to use (but the sexiest)...
The Pentax Digital Spot meter and the Gossen Digipro F are the favourites now.

 

[bjorke]

Do you use TTL, Sunny 16, Hand Meters either incident or reflective/spot etc?

Yes.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

I have a book by Roger Hicks and Frances Shultz called Perfect Exposure From Theory To Practice.

They were good people. Roger was one of the online stalwarts who could be counted on for photographic knowledge and wisdom.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

the Spectra is the most complex to use (but the sexiest)...

Studio Deluxe users might disagree, although I confess that Spectra is pretty hot. Complex, how?

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Studio Deluxe users might disagree, although I confess that Spectra is pretty hot. Complex, how?

The need of the different slides, more than the Sekonic (only one), whether or not to use the batteries for low light and above all the reeding wheel with the different pointers on the back, makes it rather complex shooting handheld on the go (sous bois where I dropped one of the slides and couldn't find it anymore).
But sometimes that complexity is worth it, particular for (large-) architectural interiors where you can walk around and measuring the different incidents of light, while the camera is standing on a tripod.
Anyway, I keep it in the leather case, attached ton my bag, when I go out shooting ruins, churches or castles.
I hope never to drop that meter, it is so vulnerable...

 

[ic-racer]

It depends on how I feel, the camera I am shooting with and the subject...
View attachment 356987
The Sekonic L-358 is gone now, there are some issues with the Gossen Variosix F (bad contact with the +5 diffusor dome) and the Spectra is the most complex to use (but the sexiest)...
The Pentax Digital Spot meter and the Gossen Digipro F are the favourites now.

Very nice collection!

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Very nice collection!

Thanks, but bear in mind that it is less a collection yet above all a toolbox {dating from the (long gone-) times when I was a professional}.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

I use a rollei for portraits and use a hand held meter in the incidence mode shooting on Ilford HP5+ although I shoot the film at iso200 not the box speed.
The Leica's have through the lens meters, so I use that in most cases.
The F3 I often use ttl.
I have a spot meter that I never use since I stopped shooting 8x10.

 

[kykr]

TTL for me on 35mm. Of course I may compensate in weird situations like strong backlighting or a polar bear in a snowstorm, but I start with what TTL gives me.

But then, I use Brownie Hawkeyes once in awhile too, those are more along the lines of “yes or no”… As in take a shot or not, the film choice is the only other exposure control.

 

[eli griggs]

It doesn't necessarily have to be equivalent to 'P'.
If your camera has a through-the-lens meter, then Shutter-priority or Aperture-priority auto-exposure mode, or Program mode, or metered-Manual mode all use a reflected-light meter reading.
In a Program mode, cameras often have a program-shift function, where you can use the program, but bias it to favour a fast shutter at the expense of aperture more than the default program would; or the opposite, favouring stopping down at the expense of a slower shutter.

Then there's more variation available in how a TTL reflected-light reading is distributed across the frame: spot, centre-weighted average, etc.

I remember there being an accessory you could buy that's a diffuser-dome to fit the front of a standard lens, that even allows you to use the TTL meter for incident-light readings (fit the dome, and point the camera away from your scene, toward the light, to meter before taking your photo in manual). I think it must have been the 80s when I saw that. I never bought one.

Not all cameras have a through-the-lens meter. In some the meter cell just looks forwards off the face of the camera. That's still a reflected-light reading, unless it has a diffuser attachment for incident readings.

All of them, plus.

I, and others have, used a plain white Styrofoam coffee cup (new) to turn camera and, in general, spot meters, into incidental machines, when used in the same fashion as normal incidental meters.*

Pieces of nails normal plate centers of styrofoam can be easily pressed into form fitting disks, and placed in Series filter holders or even in a lens hood, to get incidental readings and, as pre'flashing' filters for dim shadowed scenes for paper negatives and films.

My regular meter kit, includes a Pentax V spot meter, Gossen Luna Pro F, and Master V meters, which are small and have inverted proprietary "cone" domes, which can be used in Master IV meters.

I still have 4"x5" polaroid, about 40 sheets, to test with and a Canon G10 to preview shots in b&w or monotone, as you like.





*The camera lenses should be set to infinite, to be out of focus and the apature wide open, for fast adjustments, in camera, my preference.

Of course you can directly read just the meter at the F stop/Shutter Speed, if you desire

 

[Pioneer]

TTL when using my LX.

Pentax 1 degree Spotmeter when I feel I need more accuracy.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I am wondering how you folks here on Photrio (APUG) go about exposing your monochrome films? Do you use TTL, Sunny 16, Hand Meters either incident or reflective/spot etc?

I thought that this might be both a fun and an educative discussion for us all to enjoy.

mostly incident hand-held meters in the studio.spot meters for landscape and LF.

 

[eli griggs]

Only Pentax digital spotmeter, wether MF or LF. Works great, but it is not a fast process.

I liked the Minolta spot meters, "M" or "F", for quick readings and averaging, as needed, but when i bought a "F" from KEH.com, it did not work correctly, and no upgrade or other Minolta spot meter, was in stock, so I bought the Luna F in it's own leather shoebox, ie case.

The Pentax V came later.

 

[JerseyDoug]

Nikon F6 - Matrix metering.

Barnack Leica when I can to take my time - Voigtländer VC Speed Meter II.

Barnack Leica when I am in a hurry - myLightMeter app on the iPhone to dial in my assessment of the day's light and then Sunny 16 unless the light changes significantly.