Mamiya vs. Mamiya

[AutumnJazz]

Mamiya RZ67 Pro II w/ 50mm and light meter
vs.
Mamiya 7II w/ 43mm lens

Which would you rather use/have, and why?

I am sorry if the mods consider this third thread of mine spam, please delete it if so. I just like to hear people's opinions.

Note: I am young and strong, and the 7-odd-pounds that the RZ67 would be doesn't really impose too much on me. I used both at a photo store, and liked them both a lot, although I must say I REALLY liked the RZ67, whereas I only really liked the 7, compared to a 'blad. I currently shoot a Nikon F100 in manual mode with TTL-metering, so all-manual is going to be a big change for me. Also, I shoot slide film and my favorite type of photography is street photography, so correct exposure is important. (I'll switch to negs if you can show me a color neg like Kodachrome or Velvia.)

 

[papagene]

Since you said you would use it for street photogy I would recommend the Mamiya 7II. The RZ would be great for portraits and still life work.
My $0.02 worth, which may be jaded seeing that I use a Fuji GW670 II.

gene

 

[Andrew Moxom]

For street photography, then hands down the Mamiya 7II. It's exposure system is pretty good, and the fact you have rangefinder handling, which is super fast, not really intrusive and you can work quickly. An RZ system really is for when you have more time and need to really see the entire image on ground glass prior to exposing film. While it could be done, the RZ is not really anything but a tripod only proposition. Not really suited for quick grab/street shots. This is the reason I keep my mamiya 6 and also have a blad system for when I need the ability to compose more thoroughly, and for when I need close ups... Something that the Mamiya 6 and 7 are not really suited for. For everything else, they are absolutely great cameras, and I would say sharper than their SLR counterparts due to the symmetrical lens designs, and lack of retrofocus requirement like on SLRs to avoid the mirror. That said, it all boils down to your own preference and what you shoot most. For me, I like the square format so I am lucky to have both a Mamiya 6, and a Blad which are great systems that can cover most situations. My Mamiya 6 goes with me when I need to travel light and work fast, and the Blad for when I need greater control on composition... YMMV

 

[colrehogan]

Having used both, what made me go with the Mamiya 7II was the light weight. This decision was made after lugging the RZ67 around in 95+ heat plus humidity some number of years ago.

 

[MattKing]

Do you want to shoot closeups?

Do you want to shoot portraits or studio shots?

Do you want 6x8 as an option?

Would you like to have a digital back as an option?

Would you like really wide, or really long lenses to be an option?

You've stated that you like the RZ67 - buy a used one and try it out.

If it turns out the Mamiya 7 will be better for you, you can probably sell your RZ67 for close to what you paid for it.

If it were me, I'd buy an RB67, and the lenses I wanted. If it turns out that the RZ67 would be better, my lenses could still be used.

Matt

 

[Nick Zentena]

If the weight of the RZ isn't an issue then the choice is obvious. A 5x7 or maybe a lightweight 8x10 -)The RZ is in that weight class. What it does it does very well. But it is a huge beast.

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

For street photography and quick, off the cuff shots i'd definitely go with the 7. For tabletop, closeup and most other things i'd go with an RZ. The 7 can almost fit in a big coat pocket, the RZ will serve as a weapon if you swing it hard enough at someone.

 

[gwhitegeog]

Mamiya 7II

For street photography and travel, definitely the 7. For everything else, the RZ. Have used both and from own experience, I would say if you were just buying one, go for the 7. Gary (London)

 

[gerryyaum]

My favorite Mamiya's are the Mamiya 6, love these cameras for street photography and the Mamiya C330 twin reflex camera...lighter weight and smaller than the RB or RZ and they allow closer focusing than the Mamiya 7 or 6.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

For street, I'd say the 7II, but when you say you tried both in a camera shop, did you actually shoot film and print the results? I mean, they're both great cameras with fine lenses, but picking up a rangefinder camera and looking through the finder doesn't tell you anything about the lenses, and that's the main attraction of the 7II, in my opinion.

You can rent them. Check with Calumet or Lens and Repro, and you could do a weekend rental for the one day cost, and see what works better for you in practice and which gives you better results, with the caveat that if you haven't used a rangefinder camera before, there's a bit of a learning curve there in learning to use the DOF scale, and eventually to pre-visualise the DOF in your head.

 

[vic vic]

autumnjazz ...
mamiya7 wide lenses are among the finest and better than mamiya rz/rb ones at least in the wide section...
i would also concider a 50mm lens on mamiya7, a better and more versatile overall lens i think ... i can understand that 65mm will not be wide enough, more likely it can be consideered as normal lens for mamiya7, but 50 is wide enough and not too much wide ... there is hardly any limitations with 50mm lens (as wide lens), from portrait, reportage to architecture etc ...

well mamiya rz+50 can be nice if u need all rz system, or if u really prefer the weist-level finder and dont like viewfinder/rangefinder
and ya, though not a modern camera, but mamiya330 is also an option. when in university, i used an old 220 for some time, the quality of the lens was not like modern lenses (rz or 7) but i think 330 later lenses are substantially better. still the thing was/is a weist-level finder ...

 

[Drew B.]

I have the RZ so this opinion isn't jaded....I'd use the 7 for your type of photography. Didn't Eisenstadt use a rangefinder for his Life images? He's well known around the world for his photographs.

also: what the heck is wrong with the 645 Pro???? I carried that around Europe a few years ago and loved it.

 

[eddym]

If you're doing street photography, forget the RZ. It would be like trying to play golf with a baseball bat. Wrong tool for the job.
There are many things an RZ is good for, but shooting handheld on the street is not one of them.

 

[SuzanneR]

I use both systems... when I want to get close in portraits or small details, it's the RZ all the way. When I am looking at a broader view of the world, I pick up the Mamiya 7 with either the 80 or 65mm which are wide enough for my vision.

It's a little hard to answer the question as to which I prefer...they're both great for my different moods!

 

[Robert Budding]

You may want to consider a 645 SLR if this is your first foray into MF. The 645 neg is about 2,7x the area of a 35mm neg, so you'll see a huge improvement in tonality and detail. The Bronica ETRSi is an excellent system, and the leaf shutter lenses flash sync at all speeds. And you can get your feet wet for very little money. If money isn't an issue, the Mamiya 7 is superb - light, quiet, and amazing lenses. It's just not as versatile as an SLR.

 

[ic-racer]

I have been fascinated with the prospects on interchangable lenses on the C330 cameras since I saw them first in the 70s. I have never used them but would choose them because of the curiosity factor. Also, the other two mentioned are 6x7cm format, that I don't like as much as 6x6.

 

[AutumnJazz]

By use, I meant picked up and shot the shutters a few times. No film, no printing.

I just don't have a desire for 645. I don't know why.

I was pretty set on the RZ67...24 vs. 1 is now making me realize it would probably be a bad idea for me to get the RZ67. I would probably never end up using it because of the weight.

 

[SuzanneR]

By use, I meant picked up and shot the shutters a few times. No film, no printing.

I just don't have a desire for 645. I don't know why.

I was pretty set on the RZ67...24 vs. 1 is now making me realize it would probably be a bad idea for me to get the RZ67. I would probably never end up using it because of the weight.

It's important you decide for yourself. In the OP, you said you preferred the RZ. I love mine, and it's an altogether more versatile system, if a bit heavier. Maybe rent each for a weekend, and see how you like them?

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

When I compared 645 to 67, it felt more like 35mm vs. large format. I still get fantastic results from 645 (and only load 35mm into my little ansco memo rf). On the upside, you get more frames per roll and the cameras are generally smaller. 66 is basically 645 to me as I don't print square and end up cropping anyway.

I'd get a used 7 and a used RB, you'd have the best of both worlds.

 

[catem]

I don't feel able to vote as I haven't used a Mamiya 7 - I've used both a 645 and have had an RZ for nearly five years. I still love the RZ. It can be used in many ways, as many ways as you have the head and will to try - I rarely use it with a tripod these days, only for still life, and happily used it hand-held, even for quite spontaneous shots. You won't get them all, though, mainly because of the focus. You won't be discreet, either.

For street photography, there's a lot to be said for lighter & freer, and a rangefinder would be very attractive for me (sorry, rz, pains me to say it...). On a sidenote I love the Agfa Billy Record (1935-ish) that I've been using at the moment, which is 6 x 9 - both the large negs and lack of mirror slap. If I were into street photography (I'm not, really) I'd be keen to give it a go with this, mainly for the fun factor (and if the focus was fixed!). If you like to shoot fast, though (and often) the fewer negs per roll for 6 x 7 - let alone 6 x 9 - might become an issue. I'd also be considering a Leica or a good Nikon if it were me and possibly keep the MF for slightly more considered work (sorry, digression perhaps).

As various posters have said, the only way is to try them out - with film but more importantly doing what you want to do with it for a couple of hours. I would also borrow or rent whatever you interested in, then decide. Good choices though - you'd certainly find a use for them one way or another!

 

[vic vic]

as suzane and others said already ... it is only u that can choose .. and the thruth is that u should try to look at it in less deterministic way - which one will be better for u, as though there is a predefind hiden ideal that u should find for your self ... the truth is that once u have this or that and u will play seriously, u will start developing further and further , and your camera will play a role in your development and new venture ...

there is also no predefined "correct" camera for "street" photography ... even if i too think that cameras like leica or mamiya7 or even nikon d3 (excuse me apug) are "better / natural / common"...

i have a book of "weimer republic through the lens of press" ... i wil be honest with u, those photographs that most are done with big big cameras are far more superior in terms of their depth and documentary value than 75% of cartier-bresson and capa's fotos with leica cameras and all the legend paradims of reportage and documentary style that came after them and with them ....
so seriously, if u r serious, u can do street works with 8x10 cameras too ... it is a matter of attitude ... no body said that leica M or nikon d3 is a must ... dont forget that 99% that is photographed with leica and nikon is junk .. not that 8x10 camera on the street will garantee good works, but u know what i mean - it is all a matter of attitude, and where and how u want to develop yourself

 

[John Koehrer]

The 7 will fit your photography but will it fit your pocket book? As I recall the 43 is a mighty pricey bit.
RZ & a 50 will cost about what a 7ll body if I 'member rightly. Not often by the way

 

[thefizz]

I have both and love both. I got my RZ about six years ago and then last year got the 7 with the intention of using it as my walk around camera. Since then I have actually brought both with me almost everywhere and I take out of the bag which ever one feels right for the job. I mainly shoot landscapes.

If you mostly do street photography than it has to be the 7 or 7II.

Peter

 

[Robert Budding]

. . . I just don't have a desire for 645. I don't know why. . .

Well, 645 would be a rational choice. But rationality isn't required when selecting gear. I've even done some street photography with my Crown Graphic. The rangefinder focusing is very accurate!

 

[AutumnJazz]

The 7 will fit your photography but will it fit your pocket book? As I recall the 43 is a mighty pricey bit.
RZ & a 50 will cost about what a 7ll body if I 'member rightly. Not often by the way

After-school jobs = bliss.