Mamiya Six Folder

Wayne · Feb 16, 2021

xya said:
I had the same type of leaks on one of mine. the seals were worn cotton velvet. I replaced them by modern foam, but it didnt help. so I suggested that it had to do with the bellows and the film plane focussing. I searched, but did not find it. so, as usual, I gave the camera away for free. I don`t waste my time with those problems.

I'm going to buy some black reinforcement yarn tomorrow. Pretty sure that will take care of it but if it doesn't this thread will be the first to know. I hate foam, installing it isn't bad but the mess it leaves is.

xya · Feb 16, 2021

yes, please report back...

Wayne · Feb 17, 2021

I installed some black wool yarn, the only kind I could get today that would sort of fit. I've got a roll of HP5+ in there that I'll shoot tomorrow and develop by Friday. Hopefully that took care of it. The camera back closes real snug now anyway.

LittleParallelograms · Feb 18, 2021

Wayne said:
I hope you will take pictures and notes through the process, because I think I will have to do mine too. But I'm scared of small delicate things, and they are scared of me.He does show it here but since every one of these things seems to be slightly different... the RFs probably are too https://tinkeringwithcameras.blogspot.com/2016/03/mamiya-six-restoration.html

I was able to take the top off and adjust my rangefinder today though. Its hard to find the screw through the access hole, but it was a breeze with the top off.

I shot my first roll today, or should I say half roll. I honestly cannot see the $%#$ frame numbers in that little red window half the time and I went past the next frame multiple times. I need to find a better way to advance the film, get a new red window, mark the advance lever, or something...mine doesn't have a counter.

If you set the focus wheel to 1m then the backing paper will be closest to the red window, making the numbers easier to read.

Wayne · Feb 18, 2021

LittleParallelograms said:
If you set the focus wheel to 1m then the backing paper will be closest to the red window, making the numbers easier to read.

Good tip!

Wayne · Feb 18, 2021

LittleParallelograms said:
If you set the focus wheel to 1m then the backing paper will be closest to the red window, making the numbers easier to read.

That worked great on todays roll. Kind of a pain but it worked great with HP5. Need to try it with Portra cuz that's the one I really had trouble with.
And I would have developed the roll tonight to see if the yarn worked but I have no running water.

Wayne · Mar 1, 2021

xya said:
yes, please report back...

The wool yarn didn't work so well, but I wanted to avoid anything gooey if possible. But I was still getting leaks. I think it could be made to work, maybe a slightly larger diameter or using 2 lengths in each channel but since I already paid 8 bucks for a skein that's now of no use to me, I decided to abandon that plan and not buy any more. I had some sheets of adhesive felt laying around from when I did my RB and just used that. Its a super bright sunny day with fresh snow so a great day to test it. Will report back on that...

Wayne · Mar 3, 2021

Gahhh, that didn't cure the leaks either. Now I put some yarn over the felt, and will hope that takes care of it. If not I'll have to buy some. Don't know if Jon Goodman carries them, and the only reasonably priced place I can find is in the UK and they aren't shipping. Or I can pay 50 bucks for some from japan, which will only happen over my cold dead body.

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

Wayne said:
Got some serious light leaks in my 6...on the bright side, HP5 was a lot easier to read through the window than Portra 400. I'm thinking the window must be at fault here at least in part. The red is pretty much faded away on the filter, and the sliding door that covers it is wonky and sometimes doesn't close all the way. But I'm not sure that could do all of this...

View attachment 266687

Ughh. It seems improved but still leaking. I think these are bellows leaks, and my 30 day return period just expired 2 days ago...

Donald Qualls · Mar 4, 2021

See if you can find some black masking tape (or gaffer tape, but the thinner the better), or pick up a small piece of very thing latigo leather dyed black. I've used both to patch bellows at the corners with good results. If the material is thin enough, you can get good light blockage without affecting the folding of the bellows.

And to check if you need to do this, open the bellows, take out the pressure plate insert, and in a dim or dark room, shine a flashlight (torch, if you think in British English) into the bellows and look all around for pinholes showing bright on the outside. This will also help you locate holes.

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
See if you can find some black masking tape (or gaffer tape, but the thinner the better), or pick up a small piece of very thing latigo leather dyed black. I've used both to patch bellows at the corners with good results. If the material is thin enough, you can get good light blockage without affecting the folding of the bellows.

And to check if you need to do this, open the bellows, take out the pressure plate insert, and in a dim or dark room, shine a flashlight (torch, if you think in British English) into the bellows and look all around for pinholes showing bright on the outside. This will also help you locate holes.

Actually that's what I did when I first got it, and I saw nothing. The trick was to do the opposite-shine the light outside while looking inside. Now I just need to figure out where the leaks are. Its a little harder this way. I found one but I think there is at least one more...

Donald Qualls · Mar 4, 2021

Good luck. If you can get it down to one leak, you can get interesting pinhole double exposures by timing your advance correctly...

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Good luck. If you can get it down to one leak, you can get interesting pinhole double exposures by timing your advance correctly...

yeah, lol. That's what I paid 200 bucks for lol.

Donald Qualls · Mar 4, 2021

Worst case, it's probably possible to replace the bellows. It's independent of the focusing mechanism on the Mamiya 6. Should only cost about what you've already got into the camera...

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

I already decided its worst case...I just keep finding more and more holes. Great, just what I couldn't afford is a 300 dollar camera. $67 for new bellows. That's exactly why I spent more, to get one that didn't have these troubles.

Another fine example of what Excellent + from Japan means in 2021.

I should have held out for the Excellent ++ or +++

Donald Qualls · Mar 4, 2021

Odd thing is, I spent just about $120 on mine, and the only hint of a leak I've seen seems to have come in through the 6x4.5 framing window and a split in the rubber boot on the inside that's supposed to seal against the pressure plate insert -- and that only when I let the sun shine directly into the framing window (only seen it once).

Then again, I tried to order an Ensign Commando before I bought the Mamiya 6 -- photos on eBay were carefully composed to minimize the squashed top cover (hence non-functional RF and probably frame counter). Same seller had a nice one for only twice the money, but I just left it sit...

takilmaboxer · Mar 4, 2021

I've found that the best way to do a pinhole-in-the-bellows test is to use a mini Mag Light. The top can be removed so that the bulb is exposed. When inserted it shines in all directions making pinholes easier to see from the outside of the bellows.
Some old folder brands - notably Agfa/Ansco - used less expensive bellows materials and by the present day, always have pinholes.
Zeiss used better materials and pinholes are much less common. I have an Agfa purchased from Certo6 with a beautiful blue replacement bellows. But, I paid full price for it.

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

I tried the maglite, and a small Ironton flashlight I have tons of

Found 1 or 2 with latter, but none with the minimag (although my minimag is quite old)

But the Fat Max heavy firepower to found most of them...until "most" became "too many" (at least 4 or 5 now). I could not find any of them with the traditional light-inside-the-camera method, I found all of them looking inside and shining the light on the outside.

richyd · Mar 4, 2021

If it is light leaks from the bellows, I fixed a few leaks on my newly purchased Mamiya 6 folder several years ago with tiny snippets of gaffer tape and Plastidip; never had a problem since.

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

richyd said:
If it is light leaks from the bellows, I fixed a few leaks on my newly purchased Mamiya 6 folder several years ago with tiny snippets of gaffer tape and Plastidip; never had a problem since.

I was thinking about some sort of rubber or plastic coating. I think taping is starting to become a waste of time, because there always seems to be one more leak and all I have is electric tape that isn't going to stick all that well in the long run. At some point I'm just throwing good money after bad. $67 for new bellows and its done.

I've never used plastidip or any spray on rubber/plastic. Will it seal leaks by itself, and remain flexible? I might try that as a last ditch for $5 at Menards, but no way I'll buy gaffers tape AND dip and then end up having to spend $67 anyway...I'm sure I can find other uses for the spray. I think I'd want to paint it on with a brush or foam brush rather than spraying it, and I'd just cover the whole damn bellows with it.

Donald Qualls · Mar 4, 2021

Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!!

DO NOT use Plastidip, liquid electrical tape, or similar on a bellows. I did it once, on a Wirgin Auta with a lot of leaks at the corner folds. Good news is, it stopped the light leaks. Bad news was, the first time I tried to close the bed, the bellows stuck together and it took me a half hour or more to get it open, and even after dusting it with talcum powder (which looked great on the black bellows) it wouldn't fully close due to the extra thickness. I wound up stealing a good bellows off another Auta that had a less desirable lens (i still have and use the repaired camera, and can see the slight misalignment of the new bellows when I shoot without the format masks).

I've had much better results with black masking tape (applied both inside and outside) or the thinnest latigo leather, dyed black, and applied outside only (both of my Zeiss Ideals have a number of leather patches; they're almost invisible, not so thick, in reasonable numbers, as to affect folding, and even though they're only stuck on with rubber cement, they've now held for fifteen years or so).

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

Did you close the bellows too soon, before it completely dried?

Grim Tuesday · Mar 4, 2021

This is what you want for fixing bellows: https://www.amazon.com/3M-850B-Polyester-0-5-length/dp/B00JX9RXOU

grat · Mar 4, 2021

Did I miss a memo? The 100+ year old half plate camera I just bought has Ye Olde Bookbinder's tape on the corners of the bellows. Buy a roll, it'll last the next few decades.

henryvk · Mar 5, 2021

Another vote for bookbinding tape. If you buy the good stuff it's fantastically strong and flexible. However, I have used Shoe Goo dyed with black ink from a ballpoint pen to fill in holes in a shutter curtain and that stuff ought to have the right attributes for bellow pinholes but don't take my word for it.

Mamiya Six Folder

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