Mamiya 645 Pro versus RZ67: How Much Better Is Bigger?

Snapshot · Jun 11, 2014

Hi All,

I currently use a Nikon 35mm system and a Mamiya 645 Pro system. I love my Mamiya 645 Pro gear, however, I'm getting an attack of GAS and I'm wondering if the RZ67 would be worth purchasing. I mainly print 8"x10" enlargements, occassionally print 11"x14" enlargements, infrequently print 16"x20" enlargements and quite rarely print 20"x24" enlargements. So, is getting me in trouble with the CFO of the house worth getting a 6x7 system?

Any thoughts and opinions?

mweintraub · Jun 11, 2014

I have both with both WLF and AE Prisms and power winders. I'm not sure if I can take comparison photos and weights tonight, but PM me Thursday and I'll get that done for you.

Snapshot · Jun 11, 2014

mweintraub said:
I have both with both WLF and AE Prisms and power winders. I'm not sure if I can take comparison photos and weights tonight, but PM me Thursday and I'll get that done for you.

Will do. Thank in advance.

Paul in Arizona · Jun 11, 2014

I've seen "GAS" used on this site several times. Is this an acronym for something I should know about or is this just intestinal gas?

andrew.roos · Jun 11, 2014

Paul in Arizona said:
I've seen "GAS" used on this site several times. Is this an acronym for something I should know about or is this just intestinal gas?

Gear Acquisition Syndrome...

Chris Lange · Jun 11, 2014

Won't make a difference at 8x10 or 11x14, will definitely give a bump in tonality and granularity at 16x20, will make quite a big difference at 20x24.

jjphoto · Jun 11, 2014

There's a significant difference in film area and I always preferred my RZ negs over M645. On a practical level the M645 is quick and easy to use whilst the RZ is heavy and cumbersome. I always used it on a tripod.

I'm sure you can tell the difference even in 8x10 prints because your back will hurt much more with the RZ!

Jaf-Photo · Jun 11, 2014

Snapshot said:
Hi All,

I currently use a Nikon 35mm system and a Mamiya 645 Pro system. I love my Mamiya 645 Pro gear, however, I'm getting an attack of GAS and I'm wondering if the RZ67 would be worth purchasing. I mainly print 8"x10" enlargements, occassionally print 11"x14" enlargements, infrequently print 16"x20" enlargements and quite rarely print 20"x24" enlargements. So, is getting me in trouble with the CFO of the house worth getting a 6x7 system?

Any thoughts and opinions?

There is always a trick that a friend of mine taught me.

His wife couldn't tell the difference between his cameras, but she counted them.

Whenever he bought a new camera, he hid one of the others, so the total number in view remained the same.

If ever he was questioned on a new purchase, he said "What, this old thing? Nah, I've had it for ages!"

My honesty forbids me to use such underhand tactics, but others may find it useful

pbromaghin · Jun 11, 2014

I am sorry to confess that I rely on my wife's good sense to curb my GAS attacks.

DannL. · Jun 11, 2014

I just received my first RZ67 the other day, and up to this point I am very pleased with the camera. Mine was an eBay purchase from Tokyo. I have owned many cameras over the years, but this particular camera feels like it was designed for me. I'm on roll No. 3 as of today, and I am very happy with the negatives from the first two rolls. This camera came with a 90mm. It is a "husky" camera. As others have mentioned, a tripod will come in very handy. But it's easy enough to use hand-held, also. Get a good neck-strap. I don't plan on a p-finder because of the additional weight. But if someone put one in my sock for Christmas . . . I'd surely use it. I once own a Pentax 645N. It only took a few rolls to become disillusioned because of the negative size. Coming from decades of using 35mm, I couldn't see the point. Nice camera though.

Scans from test negatives. Exposed on a tripod. Mirror up. Arista.EDU Ultra 100. D-76 1:1
No. 1 - Overcast & Windy, No. 2 - A close crop from the same, No. 3 - El Coche Fantastico

View attachment 89453 View attachment 89454 View attachment 89455

Manual: http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/assets/files/documentation/RZ67_Pro_v4.pdf

Alan Gales · Jun 13, 2014

For 8x10's and 11X14's I would keep shooting your Mamiya 645. If you start shooting larger often then buy the RZ, Mamiya 7 or a 4x5 camera.

At one time I owned an RZ and a Pentax 645Nll. I used the Rz for portraits and always on a tripod. I shot the Pentax hand held just like a 35mm camera. Did I need both? Of course not but I just loved the RZ for portraiture with the waist level finder and revolving back. I also loved the Pentax for it's light weight and automation.

GAS can be expensive!

MattKing · Jun 13, 2014

One other thing to consider. If you, like me, like shooting 6x6 and 6x4.5 slides for projection, the availabilility of 6x4.5 and (for the RB67 the extremely rare) 6x6 backs gives you a choice of usable formats on the nominally 6x7 camera.

eng1er · Jun 13, 2014

Jaf-Photo said:
There is always a trick that a friend of mine taught me.

His wife couldn't tell the difference between his cameras, but she counted them.

Whenever he bought a new camera, he hid one of the others, so the total number in view remained the same.

If ever he was questioned on a new purchase, he said "What, this old thing? Nah, I've had it for ages!"

I used to work with a guy whose wife told him he couldn't have a motorcycle. After much persistence, he eventually talked into letting him get a scooter. Then after a year or so, he traded it in on a Honda Goldwing. She never new the difference. True story.

mweintraub · Jun 15, 2014

Alright. Here we go.

I'm starting minimal (without lens) and then adding.

So, we start with:
- Body
- 120 back (RZ has film in it)
- darkslide
- handwinder (RZ has one built in, not removable)

[table="width: 1000, align: left"]

Mamiya 645 Pro
Mamiya RZ67
Notes

1.129 kg / 2.48 lbs
1.847 kg / 4.07 lbs

+Lens
1.579 kg / 3.48 lbs
2.526 / 5.56 lbs
645: 80mm 1.9 (heavier than 2.8), RZ: 110m 2.8

+Prism
1.775 kg / 3.91 lbs
3.304 kg / 7.28 lbs
645: AE prism, RZ: AE Prism

+PowerWinder with batteries
2.164 kg / 4.77 lbs
3.941 kg / 8.68 lbs
645: WG401, RZ: Pro II

[/table]

The winner? Both. The 645 Pro is great when you want to shoot like 35mm. The RZ is great for studio and slower outdoor shooting. (Prism and Power Winders VERY! optional on RZ.)

Snapshot · Jun 16, 2014

mweintraub said:
Alright. Here we go.

I'm starting minimal (without lens) and then adding.

So, we start with:
- Body
- 120 back (RZ has film in it)
- darkslide
- handwinder (RZ has one built in, not removable)

[table="width: 1000, align: left"]

Mamiya 645 Pro
Mamiya RZ67
Notes

1.129 kg / 2.48 lbs
1.847 kg / 4.07 lbs

+Lens
1.579 kg / 3.48 lbs
2.526 / 5.56 lbs
645: 80mm 1.9 (heavier than 2.8), RZ: 110m 2.8

+Prism
1.775 kg / 3.91 lbs
3.304 kg / 7.28 lbs
645: AE prism, RZ: AE Prism

+PowerWinder with batteries
2.164 kg / 4.77 lbs
3.941 kg / 8.68 lbs
645: WG401, RZ: Pro II

[/table]

The winner? Both. The 645 Pro is great when you want to shoot like 35mm. The RZ is great for studio and slower outdoor shooting. (Prism and Power Winders VERY! optional on RZ.)

This is a great comparison. Thanks for doing it!

sir_mamiya · Jun 16, 2014

RedSun · Jun 16, 2014

They both suck....

Snapshot · Jun 16, 2014

RedSun said:
They both suck....

This comment seems to be a blunt and ambiguous. I will presume you find Mamiya systems lacking. Would you be able to provide clarity as to why that is the case?

mweintraub · Jun 16, 2014

Snapshot said:
This comment seems to be a blunt and ambiguous. I will presume you find Mamiya systems lacking. Would you be able to provide clarity as to why that is the case?

They seem to be anti Mamiya.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Snapshot · Jun 16, 2014

mweintraub said:
They seem to be anti Mamiya.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess everyone's entitled to an opinion but I was requesting information on format sizes more than brands. Such unsubstatiated bashing and off-topic commentary isn't useful or appropriate. Perhaps the moderators can curb the use of such negative statements by 'contributors'.

pbromaghin · Jun 16, 2014

Snapshot said:
Thanks for pointing that out. I guess everyone's entitled to an opinion but I was requesting information on format sizes more than brands. Such unsubstatiated bashing and off-topic commentary isn't useful or appropriate. Perhaps the moderators can curb the use of such negative statements by 'contributors'.

You're right about it being useless and annoying, but you really ought to think twice about wanting moderators to get in on mere annoyances.

mweintraub · Jun 16, 2014

Like their other comment, if we ignore them, they'll go away from this thread.

Dr Croubie · Jun 16, 2014

So is the original question more on the quality-difference between m645 and RB/Z lenses (ie, do you have an option on a good deal?), or between 645 and 67 formats in general?
No doubt for the latter you'll see better quality with a 67-sized neg than a 645, you can blow it up almost twice as big for the same grain (it just depends on whether you blow up big enough and peer close enough to see the difference).

Just a slightly OT thought, but if you know you want to go to 67, and want to use it outdoors, why not one of the Fuji rangefinders, or even a Pentax67? The quality will be just as good as an RB/RZ, and those rangefinders are a lot smaller and lighter (not sure on the P67, they're beasts too from what I've seen).

Snapshot · Jun 16, 2014

pbromaghin said:
You're right about it being useless and annoying, but you really ought to think twice about wanting moderators to get in on mere annoyances.

I do agree that having moderators jump in on mere annoyances is not practical. Ongoing bashing that is off-topic doesn't seem to fit the merely annoying category to me but then again, I'm probably just sensitive because I bought into a system that 'sucks'.

Snapshot · Jun 16, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
So is the original question more on the quality-difference between m645 and RB/Z lenses (ie, do you have an option on a good deal?), or between 645 and 67 formats in general?
No doubt for the latter you'll see better quality with a 67-sized neg than a 645, you can blow it up almost twice as big for the same grain (it just depends on whether you blow up big enough and peer close enough to see the difference).

Just a slightly OT thought, but if you know you want to go to 67, and want to use it outdoors, why not one of the Fuji rangefinders, or even a Pentax67? The quality will be just as good as an RB/RZ, and those rangefinders are a lot smaller and lighter (not sure on the P67, they're beasts too from what I've seen).

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was after a 6x4.5 versus 6x7 comparison more than a lens comparison. I was just stating what I was interested in purchasing and what I currently have. As for the Fuji rangefinders, I was considering them as well so it's definitely on my radar screen.

Mamiya 645 Pro versus RZ67: How Much Better Is Bigger?

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