Making sense of my first TLR

[Sirius Glass]

I got into medium format with a Mamiya C330. My wife's uncle in Japan lent me his Grand Father's (he used to be a studio photographer). Great camera.

I got back into medium format inheriting a Mamiya C330 with three lenses and every accessory in the known world. I was never able to become one with it, so I traded it all in for a Hasselblad 503 CX and never looked back.

You want it. You will use it. You will enjoy it. You worked your adult life to earn money to pay for things others needed or wanted. Now is your time to do something for yourself for a change. Just be done with it and buy a Hasselblad. You will not regret it, only not buying it.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I got back into medium format inheriting a Mamiya C330 with three lenses and every accessory in the known world. I was never able to become one with it, so I traded it all in for a Hasselblad 503 CX and never looked back.

You want it. You will use it. You will enjoy it. You worked your adult life to earn money to pay for things others needed or wanted. Now is your time to do something for yourself for a change. Just be done with it and buy a Hasselblad. You will not regret it, only not buying it.

I'm quite happy with my RB kit, thanks.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm quite happy with my RB kit, thanks.

In that case you RB is your Hasselblad. You jumped to your Hasselblad. Enjoy.

 

[Alan Gales]

I got back into medium format inheriting a Mamiya C330 with three lenses and every accessory in the known world. I was never able to become one with it, so I traded it all in for a Hasselblad 503 CX and never looked back.

You want it. You will use it. You will enjoy it. You worked your adult life to earn money to pay for things others needed or wanted. Now is your time to do something for yourself for a change. Just be done with it and buy a Hasselblad. You will not regret it, only not buying it.

You never could become one with the camera, Sirius? Do you mean like this?


Go to the 48 second mark.

 

[Luckless]

My TLR collection is currently made up of a Rolliecord IV, and a pair of Mamiya C330 bodies. Main one I use is an F model.

The Rolliecord is lovely, light, simple, and has everything I really want in a simple camera. Compact and easy to lug.

Mamiya C series are heavy, bulky, but more flexible. The macro options open up some doors that you don't have on other cameras, but aren't the easiest to take advantage of I've found.
C series did kind of spoil me for other cameras, as I can forget how limited the close focus is on my Rolliecord, but I've really liked it for the lens options.

 

[Luckless]

I dented the tripod pole with a couple of marks to indicate the correction. I set it to mark one, focus & compose, move to mark 2, take a shot. A poor man's version of this accessory, basically.

I added a paramender to my collection when I came across a reasonably priced one in a local shop, but they're still a cludgy workaround for accurate macro work on a TLR.

To me it boils down as an advantage if you want to do some macro work on top of a focus on normal photography, but a poor choice if macro is going to be a large part of your work.

And if you're not looking to do any macro/close focus or use any lens besides something near 80mm, then the Mamiya TLRs are a poor choice in my view.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You never could become one with the camera, Sirius? Do you mean like this?


Go to the 48 second mark.

Early Mamiya lenses had the f/stops on one side and the shutter speed on the other, so the camera needed to be flipped back and forth. The 65mm and 80mm lens cocked with film advancement; the 250mm lens did not cock with film advancement. I just never felt comfortable with that camera and yet I never had annoyances like that with any other cameras.

 

[MattKing]

I added a paramender to my collection when I came across a reasonably priced one in a local shop, but they're still a cludgy workaround for accurate macro work on a TLR.

To me it boils down as an advantage if you want to do some macro work on top of a focus on normal photography, but a poor choice if macro is going to be a large part of your work.

And if you're not looking to do any macro/close focus or use any lens besides something near 80mm, then the Mamiya TLRs are a poor choice in my view.

I haven't done a lot of close focus work with my C330 in the 40+ years I've owned and used it, but I have done some. And while I once had two bodies and three lenses, I'm down to one body, two lenses, two finders and more accessories than most.
Anyone else here have a Mamiya tripod and a paramender 3 head ?
It is a system camera, of sorts. And with the trigger grip, it is well set up for my left-handed nature.
It is very flexible, and it is quite different from a Rollieflex. The extra size is what allows for the extra flexibility.
Until my recent sale of my RB67, my trio of the small Mamiya 645 Pro, the slightly larger C330, and the distinctly larger RB67 all fulfilled my needs well, and none of them were of a size that was impractical.

 

[MattKing]

By the way, this is my C330 complete with prism finder and 135mm lens.
And me, of course.

 

[Alan Gales]

Early Mamiya lenses had the f/stops on one side and the shutter speed on the other, so the camera needed to be flipped back and forth. The 65mm and 80mm lens cocked with film advancement; the 250mm lens did not cock with film advancement. I just never felt comfortable with that camera and yet I never had annoyances like that with any other cameras.

Yeah, you have to find the camera outfit that works best for you.

I was just imagining a Hasselblad sticking out of your head like that Hellraiser dude!

 

[Deleted member 88956]

If you want that extra spark of Rolleiflex ownership, none other will do.

I would not shy away from Yashica Mat (before 124G, as price on this one cannot be justified) even, if it is not a Rolleiflex.

Minolta's Autocords can be good, have great lens, but are prone to focusing lever problems and lower priced once have likely already been through related repairs or are no longer as smooth as one would have liked. And that problem is not going away (there are some "stronger" lever replacements to address some of the issues, but strength of the lever is not the sole problem) . These to me are not worth more than half of what they are selling for, because of it. There are other brands with lever focus, try before you buy, it is not a focusing style to everyone's liking.

Mamiya TLR is an entirely different animal. TLR design is the only part that places it in general TLR discussion. You may like it, but don't equate it with any other brand. While most other TLR brands have essentially same handling characteristics (quality of built aside), Mamiya is in a different category. It's not just about larger, heavier, which it is both. Its flexibility compared to typical TLR is unquestionable, but I'm not sure where your heart is for TLR photography, and Mamiya requires a lot more commitment than any other, if it is bought to stay.

Older Mamiyas, C2 and C3, can be had for reasonable money and might be the better way to try them, but once liking that, will lead to at least C220, although C330 is the jump one needs to make to get all they offer. Either way going Mamiya route may end up costing a lot more than even a Rolleiflex due to accessories/lenses available and difficulty of stopping short of owning at least good chunk of them. Mamiya TLR is also not the way to think in a direction of an interchangeable MF camera. There are superior options for that and having lens choice on a TLR is workaround not a feature to parade about.

And TLR experience is also not Mamiya's way. Classic TLR is needed for that, because of lack of Mamiya's options in any one of them. While some brands have produced many accessories for their TLR's, one hardly feels the need for any of them (filters and lens shade aside). Mamiya is the exception. It can be used with nothing but basic set up, but it is difficult to remain uncommitted to more spending.

Classic TLR gives a light set up that can be a joy. It stops short in many situations, but is as capable of great photographs as any.

 

[grat]

I have a C33, which aside from it apparently being the heaviest of all the C-Series, is a very nice camera. While I like the C33 and it's versatility, the weight led me to pick up a Yashica 12-- and picking it up was much more pleasant than picking up the C33.

Personally, I think I've got a little under $500 in my C33 system-- Body with WLF, the 80mm, 105mm and 180mm lenses, the CdS finder, and about $40 in repair parts. I have a 135mm lens, but it's etched from fungus.

While the Yashica is a grab-n-go type camera, there have been occasions when I wished I had the reach, or the close-up ability, of the C33.

 

[Xiong Chiamiov]

I bought a Meopta Flexaret largely because it was much cheaper than other options, and not popular. I can't compare it to the cameras you're considering, but I quite like it. More here: https://www.thisold.camera/2020/09/meopta-flexaret-vi.html

I would suggest that you look at the Mamiya TLR because it has built in bellows for close ups, interchangeable lenses and you can focus with either hand.

They're also heavy and not cheap, which are the two main reasons people try TLRs. And the ergonomics are abysmal - it's meant to be held with your fingers firmly placed through the bellows.

 

[Martin Rickards]

I bought a Meopta Flexaret largely because it was much cheaper than other options, and not popular. I can't compare it to the cameras you're considering, but I quite like it. More here: https://www.thisold.camera/2020/09/meopta-flexaret-vi.html



They're also heavy and not cheap, which are the two main reasons people try TLRs. And the ergonomics are abysmal - it's meant to be held with your fingers firmly placed through the bellows.

The Flexaret was also my first and only MF camera. A recommended source is http://www.ebaystores.com/Cupog-Col...sid=6561830&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=3 The better ones are the later models 5 and 6.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Thanks for all the great info everyone, and thanks Jim for the heads up about the site!

Is a Rolleicord a better value? I've also considered the Mamiyas. I tend to go into an analysis paralysis death spiral with these things...too many good options!

I had Cords and never bothered to spend more on Flexes. My most recent Cord was from this forum classifieds, sold by frequent seller after CLA.
The rest are just TLR. I had Mamiya with bunch of blue dot lenses, Yashicas, including 124 G MAT. They were nowhere near to the Cords on darkroom paper. Lenses on Cords and Flexes are just superior to the rest.

 

[Luckless]

They're also heavy and not cheap, which are the two main reasons people try TLRs. And the ergonomics are abysmal - it's meant to be held with your fingers firmly placed through the bellows.

Which model of a Mamiya TLR did you hold? Because my experience has been that they're very comfortable and work well held in either hand, especially when using the waist level finder.

 

[MattKing]

it's meant to be held with your fingers firmly placed through the bellows.

You are holding it wrong

 

[grat]

In all seriousness, I find the C-series works very well cradled with my fingers under the body, and thumbs to the side-- the focus knobs are easy to reach, the shutter release can be tripped with minimal camera movement, and the weight can be distributed across both hands.

 

[RLangham]

I bought a Meopta Flexaret largely because it was much cheaper than other options, and not popular. I can't compare it to the cameras you're considering, but I quite like it. More here: https://www.thisold.camera/2020/09/meopta-flexaret-vi.html



They're also heavy and not cheap, which are the two main reasons people try TLRs. And the ergonomics are abysmal - it's meant to be held with your fingers firmly placed through the bellows.

Is that why people buy TLR's? Because few of them are very light in my experience and the good ones usually price competitively with other MF cameras of similar age and quality. A good Rolleiflex can cost more than a basic Hasselblad with lens, and I think we know which is more versatile and has better accuracy of composition. Now the Rolleiflex can be remarkably light for a TLR depending on the model, I'll give you that, but most TLR's?

 

[grat]

One of the reasons I want a TLR is for infrared-type exposures. Being able to focus through one lens, while the other has the filter, is very handy.

In "typical" configuration (standard lens, standard finder) here are the weights of my MF cameras:

Fuji GX680: 9.25 lb*
Mamiya C33: 4.6 lb
Bronica SQ-A: 3.5 lb
Yashica 12: 2.5 lb
Bessa I: 1.5 lb**

* Including DIY battery pack
** The Bessa has a shoe-mounted RF accessory

I assume the Rolleiflex is roughly the same weight as a Yashica 12, and the Bronica / Hasselblad are roughly equivalent, although I admit that's an assumption.

And anyone complaining about the weight or bulk of a C-series TLR should try hoisting a GX680.

 

[Luckless]

One of the reasons I want a TLR is for infrared-type exposures. Being able to focus through one lens, while the other has the filter, is very handy.

Rolliecord IV: 2.0lbs***
Mamiya C330f: 4.0lbs***

***with strap and film


IR photography options were one of the things that sold me on TLRs when I bought one as my first medium format camera. Several years on I have bought neither IR film nor IR Filter... But I would argue the 'infrared-type exposures' really extends out to 'any solid filter'. I find they're useful even for light yellow filters.

They are a bit problematic with some groups of filters where you really want an accurate preview of what's going on. Polarizing filters, hard line graduated filters, and anything where the placement of the filter actually matters for composition will open up headaches for you. So if you're doing that kind of work then an SLR style camera is far better suited.

 

[MattKing]

They are a bit problematic with some groups of filters where you really want an accurate preview of what's going on. Polarizing filters, hard line graduated filters, and anything where the placement of the filter actually matters for composition will open up headaches for you.

Buy two matched filters, with index marks!

 

[Sirius Glass]

They are a bit problematic with some groups of filters where you really want an accurate preview of what's going on. Polarizing filters, hard line graduated filters, and anything where the placement of the filter actually matters for composition will open up headaches for you. So if you're doing that kind of work then an SLR style camera is far better suited.

And now we are back to talking about Rollei SLRs and Hasselblads.

 

[grat]

Rolliecord IV: 2.0lbs***
Mamiya C330f: 4.0lbs***

***with strap and film

Yeah, I knew the C33 was the beast of the family.

They are a bit problematic with some groups of filters where you really want an accurate preview of what's going on. Polarizing filters, hard line graduated filters, and anything where the placement of the filter actually matters for composition will open up headaches for you. So if you're doing that kind of work then an SLR style camera is far better suited.

I really need to get around to designing that idea I had-- I want to make a filter adapter with a slider. The idea is that it attaches to both lenses on a TLR, holds the filter over the viewing lens, and then when you're ready to take the picture, you slide it down to the taking lens. That way you can use the polarizers / grads, etc. without changing their rotation.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yeah, I knew the C33 was the beast of the family.



I really need to get around to designing that idea I had-- I want to make a filter adapter with a slider. The idea is that it attaches to both lenses on a TLR, holds the filter over the viewing lens, and then when you're ready to take the picture, you slide it down to the taking lens. That way you can use the polarizers / grads, etc. without changing their rotation.

The theory sound great, the implementation not so much. It is not only awkward but it is fraught with errors. There are sound reasons that Rollei move from TLR to SLR.