Making my first emulsion now.

hrst · Sep 24, 2009

Erythrosine

I've read here that erythrosine has to be added in a specific way to make it work properly. Can you give some hints how (and how much) to add it and how this differs from the addition of other kind of dyes?

Photo Engineer · Sep 24, 2009

I cannot due to the differences between your emulsion and mine.

I would suggest about 50 mg of erythrosine / mole of silver, added as a 1% solution in water. That is a good starting point.

PE

hrst · Sep 25, 2009

Our coating blade

Version 0.01

Photo Engineer · Sep 25, 2009

They look very nice and quite similar to my film and plate coating blades.

PE

Kirk Keyes · Sep 25, 2009

Great job with the results!

Ray Rogers · Sep 25, 2009

hrst said:
OH YEAH!

Is that one of you in the picture?
Looks like a nice welll equipped workshop....

Ray

wildbillbugman · Sep 25, 2009

Looks like the grain is very small.
Bill

hrst · Sep 25, 2009

Ray Rogers said:
Is that one of you in the picture?
Looks like a nice welll equipped workshop....

Ray

Yeah, I took the picture and the other one of us is in the picture . He's making a LED light at our university's electronic club (blue light is on in the picture ). And we are making the emulsion in camera club's darkroom. I'm a member of board in both of these clubs. It's nice to have clubs like these!

hrst · Oct 22, 2009

We tried coating this emulsion to a matte plastic sheet we have here (I don't know what it is. Probably some PET with processed, matte surface.) to make a kind of enlarger paper. It worked kinda well! First of all, the emulsion doesn't loosen off in processing at all (this is unharneded!), contrast is almost ok for enlarger use. This is maybe a stop or two slower than most enlarging papers. It looks quite cool when you have some light source behind the "paper".

Here's a digital photo of this print taped to PC monitor to give some light thru the print. Original negative is Fuji Neopan 1600, processed normally. On the right side emulsion was so thick that it took too long to fix, so I stopped fixing after 3-4 mins. It seems that very thick emulsion results in a bit slower speed and more contrast, and more glossy surface.

totalamateur · Oct 22, 2009

That's really great!! Thanks for posting pics of your work!

Photo Engineer · Oct 22, 2009

Excellent work. Good luck guys. Keep going!

PE

Photo Engineer · Oct 22, 2009

Pumped make with 1 silver and 2 salts + dopants

Here is a setup I am constructing for a high speed make.

It is taking a lot of white light rehearsal before I commit!

The blue objects in the lower left center are the two pump heads. Above them are the beakers that will contain silver, 2 salts and dopants. On the right is the temperature controlled hotplate with mixer.

Note the creative use of clothspins to hold tubing.

Out of frame in the center is a burette holder for my burettes so that I can add additional solutons at a given rate.

I am at present working on the electrodes needed to insure that I am at the right vAg for this high speed make. I am going to attempt ISO 400 but who knows.... The phase of the moon might be wrong.

In any event, your results at the start are better than mine. I came out of a million dollar lab and tried to do it on a shoestring. When I finally came to my senses, I did a major revision of my operating procedures and now am moving ahead one step at a time from basics.

Congratulations guys.

PE

wildbillbugman · Oct 22, 2009

Guys from Finland,
Realy great results for a first try. It took me 5 tries to figure out why I was geting fogging!
I think that being closer to the Magnetic North Pole is giving you an "unfare advantage".

hrst · Oct 23, 2009

Thanks for all this cheering and encouragement!

Living in Finland may also be a disadvantage. We are going to do the erythrosine-sensitized version soon, but in a month there will be nothing green left to test it with. Just snow; everything is black and white! Makes no difference whether your film is blue-sensitive, ortochromatic or panchromatic or even colour film! . And the day will be so short that we have to shoot everything at noon.

In fact, me and my family spend the summers in Northern Finland (where polar bears almost live, but not quite !) mining&washing gold; thus, I've got some gold I've mined by myself. We have dissolved it in aqua regia and will try to do gold sensitization with it .

Ray Rogers · Oct 23, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
The blue objects in the lower left center are the two pump heads.

I hardly noticed the clothes pins but I did see some plastic connectors!
At least 2 types, (180 and 90 degrees)

Seems you use the 90 degree connectors for the supply vessels but not for the kettle.
Is that by design or just coincidence?

(Do you like them, any pro's or con's? Are they top-heavy?)

What are the 180 degree connectos for?

Ray

Photo Engineer · Oct 23, 2009

Ray;

Looking again, I see that the clothes pins were cropped out of the photo when I resized it.

I use the connnectors to join segments of tubing and nothing else. The tygon tubing used for peristaltic pumps is extremely expensive running in the range of $100 / small package of 25 ft or so. The other tubing may cost under $10 for the same length but will not work with peristaltic pumps.

As for the 90 degree connectors, just a whimsical way of turning a corner? After all, the setup is not completed yet. But, I found that the 90 degree connectors allow rapid positioning and movement between beakers on the input side, but on the output side the clothes pins allow accurate and rather permanent positioning to be made. So....

PE

hrst · Oct 23, 2009

I've considered that we will use 50 mL syringes controlled with stepper or servo motors to avoid tubings and pumps. Syringes can be very near to the beaker where emulsion is made, with maybe about 10-20 cm tubes, thus minimizing the loss of solutions and making things easier. Syringes can be heated with a water bath. 50 mL syringes are quite cheap at VWR. But, maybe this is a little early for us now . Our next emulsion will be the same dump&stir type as this first -- it's really easy.

Photo Engineer · Oct 23, 2009

Just FYI, VWR in the US will not sell to me or any individual. They will only sell to a corporate entity.

PE

hrst · Oct 23, 2009

Yeah, I noticed this problem a while ago... So I established a small one-man company (or what it's called in English?) where you don't need any capital or much bureaucracy to run it. It cost 65 EUR to establish but now I can order anything from VWR or other companies that don't sell to individuals. I named my company: "A. Alhonen Motion Picture Laboratory"! No laboratory services available yet, though ... VWR is fun, I ordered a 300 EUR order and now they deliver one or a few items every day using a large truck, even if it's some $3 small laboratory spatula... And then they don't sell to individuals. Insane. But, I got erythrosine, thymol, glyoxal and methanol already from them.

Photo Engineer · Oct 23, 2009

It is getting harder and harder to buy chemicals in the US, and shipping is quite expensive. Many companies will not ship analog photo chemicals at all. You must pick them up at the store. This is particularly true of B&H in Manhattan. If this continues, then it will be totally impossible for our work to continue in the US, nor will most alternative photographic systems be possible to pursue due to their use of "dangerous chemicals".

I was told by one company that they could ship to me, but first I had to prove that I had a qualified storage facility for chemicals on the premises and a qualified person to maintain it. For photographically useful chemicals?

Also, for many chemicals, you must have a DEA form on file with the company that includes photo ID.

PE

Tom Kershaw · Oct 23, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
It is getting harder and harder to buy chemicals in the US, and shipping is quite expensive. Many companies will not ship analog photo chemicals at all. You must pick them up at the store.

PE

Will they ship packaged products like Kodak Ektacolor RA developer and bleach fix?

Tom

hrst · Oct 23, 2009

!

I thought this was difficult in Finland!

Just ten years ago, all pharmacies supplied most chemicals for anyone. Well, nothing that is directly used to make drugs, but all normal things. We have some small bottles at our darkroom that have a sticker from our local pharmacy; they are silver nitrate + acetic acid solution. Nowadays, you get very odd gaze if you ask for any chemicals at all.

This is insane, because the real criminals surely have their ways to get any chemicals they want.

dwross · Oct 23, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
If this continues, then it will be totally impossible for our work to continue in the US, nor will most alternative photographic systems be possible to pursue due to their use of "dangerous chemicals".PE

Aw, Ron. Just when I thought you'd given up 'doom and gloom' as a hobby, you have to go all scary, and it's not even Halloween yet.

I have had no problem getting the chemicals I need. I do have an Oregon business license, just a simple sole proprietorship like many photographers. I have had to fill out a form once or twice, but as soon as companies find out what I'm trying to do they couldn't be more helpful. I get emails, and even once a phone call, from sales reps and company scientists - all interested and supportive. And, if now and again, a horribly dangerous chemical goes missing on us, there will always be workaround alternatives. Have faith. There is a fine line between 'realism' and toxic pessimism.

There is a great love of photography out there in the world, and an appreciation for alternative processes and the importance of preserving them seems to be growing by the day.

I love BH. They are my go-to guys for equipment, but why would you go to them for chemicals? Besides the Formulary, I have great luck with the Science Company, http://www.sciencecompany.com/ and the Lab Depot, http://www.labdepotinc.com/, plus misc others.

d

p.s Go Team Finland!!

hrst · Oct 23, 2009

Yeah, you have to survive! Even if you have to mine the silver yourself and have your own cattle to get gelatin.... It's worth it when you can make your own film!

Anon Ymous · Oct 23, 2009

hrst said:
...This is insane, because the real criminals surely have their ways to get any chemicals they want.

Having seen a National Geographic documentary about methamphetamine dealers/producers, I'd say you're 100% right.

Making my first emulsion now.

hrst

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