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picturetaker

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May 21, 2006
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72
Location
Port Moody,
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35mm RF
Last time I picked up a rangefinder was almost 40yrs ago. Now I want to take the photos and develop them as well. I do not have access to a dedicated darkroom so what is the best/easiest way to get started? Equipment (brand names?), chemicals etc. I assume the chemicals have directions on them re time etc.

I am thinking workflow like 1) take the photo, 2) develop at home, 3) scan the negatives, 3) print what I want at home. The enlarger route is not something I can undertake at the moment.

So I guess I need the full basic pointers or a site that can provide noobie instructions. Appreciate all the input I can get even if it pops my balloon(s). Many thanks

Larry
a couple of Canonets, a few Yashicas, a Zeis Ikon Contina, a couple of beaters and a Canon Rebel using a 28mm f1.4 Yashinon lens - M42 mount.
 

rbarker

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Rio Rancho,
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Assuming you're talking about 35mm, here are a few suggestions:

1. get a good changing "tent" like the Harrison or Calumet's tent (the support rods keeps the tent off the film while working inside),

2. get a set of Hewes stainless reels and tank from Calumet (http://www.calumetphoto.com/) (instead of spring clips, the Hewes reels have cleats that grab the sprocket holes, making loading almost fool proof)

3. try liquid concentrate chemicals for ease of use, and most importantly

4. have fun!
 

JBrunner

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A large cat litter tray, or 30qt "underbed storage container" with a 50w unbreakable aquarium heater and a tiny aqaurium "power head" for circulation (plugged into a GFI outlet with proper drip loop) ,make a great "darkroom sink" for tempering your chems and water when developing roll film in tanks. I use such a set up in my large darkroom sink to avoid having to waste all the water it would take to fill the sink, just to develop a couple of rolls, or a few 4x5's.
 

roteague

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Kaneohe, Haw
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Hi Larry, welcome from Hawaii. I'm sure you will enjoy this site, and hopefully we can share a few things with you.
 

Stan160

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Apr 24, 2006
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475
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Frimley, Surrey
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There is are some very good guides on the Ilford website: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/home.asp. Look under Applications->Getting Started and there is a PDF you can download with step-by-step instructions on how to develop a black and white film including instructions on film, chemicals, and equipment.

Ian
 

Andy K

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Jul 3, 2004
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Here's my kit for developing film (not including chemicals)

Changing bag
Film tongue extractor
Scissors
Developing tank
Measuring syringe
Four 1 litre measuring jugs
A large stainless steel bowl for getting water to 68 degrees using hot and cold taps
A thermometer
Film clips

Welcome to APUG! I've included a couple of pictures of my kitchen enlarger setup too... just in case you get tempted... :wink:
 

srs5694

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Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
2,718
Location
Woonsocket,
Format
35mm
A site with good basic instructions is The Black & White Darkroom. You can learn most of what you need for basic B&W development there. Another option is to buy a book, such as Tom Grimm's The Basic Darkroom Book. Most books will give more details than most Web sites, and sometimes having a printed reference is handy, but of course you'll probably have to pay to own a book. You might consider checking one out of your local library, though.

Note that different sources will recommend slightly different procedures, times, etc. Don't get too hung up on these differences. B&W film processing is surprisingly robust to differences in technique, so just pick one technique and use it. As you learn more, you'll learn why different sources recommend different techniques and be better able to decide whether it's worth changing your technique. One partial exception to this rule is the film development time, which must be matched to both film and developer. Most commercial developers come with time recommendations for common films, and most films come with time recommendations for common developers. If you can't find a time with your film or developer, you can check a site such as the Massive Dev Chart, which lists times for most combinations. Even these times aren't absolute, though; you might adjust them up or down depending on your personal preferences, agitation style, and other factors.

As to chemistry, options will seem overwhelming when you first start out. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of commercial developers alone, and many choices for stop baths, fixers, hypo clearing agents, and wetting agents. (Those are the five main categories of chemicals used in B&W film processing, although you can omit some of these items with greater or lesser impact on how other steps are performed and on the quality of the final result.) My advice would be to pick a common general-purpose developer, such as Kodak D-76, Ilford ID-11 (which is nearly identical to D-76), Agfa (now A&O) Rodinal, Kodak XTOL, or Kodak HC-110, and then buy the rest of your chemistry set from the same manufacturer. That way you'll have a single source for authoritative instructions on using the chemistry, with greatly reduced chance of confusion because of conflicting instructions or finger-pointing by the manufacturers if something goes wrong and you ask for advice. Once you're familiar with the process and run out of one or more components, feel free to experiment with other products and to mix-and-match products from different manufacturers. Note that I'm not trying to say the specific developers I've mentioned are necessarily the best, and if something else seems appealing or is more readily available, feel free to use it. The products I've mentioned are all simply reasonable general-purpose products that are readily available (although Rodinal's availability is spotty at the moment because of Agfa's demise and the takeover of the Agfa chemistry line by A&O). If you locate a product and want to know if it's an appropriate one for a beginner to use, just post back and ask.

As to the rest of your workflow, scanning and printing digitally can be a good way to get from negative to print if you lack an enlarger and/or a darkroom in which to use it. This site is dedicated to analog techniques, though, so extensive discussion of the scanner route would be frowned upon here. You might be interested to know that it's possible to put together a fully functional darkroom, including an enlarger, in a surprisingly small space. Check this site, which describes one setup of a makeshift darkroom in a bathroom. With a little thought, you should be able to put something together using a cart on wheels that you can move in and out of even a fairly small bathroom within a few minutes. I believe Kodak's got a PDF buried somewhere on their site with darkroom construction tips, covering everything from makeshift kitchen or bathroom darkrooms up to dedicated "dream" darkrooms. I don't have an exact URL, though.
 
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picturetaker

picturetaker

Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
72
Location
Port Moody,
Format
35mm RF
Thank you! Great info and sites to read.
 

Jim Jones

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Chillicothe MO
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srs5694 said:
. . . I believe Kodak's got a PDF buried somewhere on their site with darkroom construction tips, covering everything from makeshift kitchen or bathroom darkrooms up to dedicated "dream" darkrooms. I don't have an exact URL, though.

Darkroom Design for Amateur Photographers -- http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/ak3/ak3.pdf

More information: Teaching Basic Darkroom Techniques --
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/education/lessonPlans/darkroom/fullCourse.shtml
 

Curt

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Sep 22, 2005
Messages
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Pacific Nort
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Welcome from WA just down the border. Another nice durable sink/tray container is had at the hardware store, here it's Lowes and HD. It's the cement mixing tray which is tough plastic and really cheap. Anyway it's like riding a bicycle you never forget.

Curt
 

gnashings

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Apr 6, 2005
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Oshawa, Onta
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Good to have you - I think you will find APUG a great resource - I know I have!!
The only suggestion I have is to repeat the advice you already got: do not get to hung up on the "finer points" and the people who tend to publish advice worded like biblical passages. Find a way that works for you, get consistant and that is far more important than the tiny little method differences.
And I really hope you reconsider that enlarger issue... there is nothing more magical than seeing the image appear on an exposed piece of photo paper, under a safe light...Still gives me goose-bumps!

Peter.
 
OP
OP
picturetaker

picturetaker

Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
72
Location
Port Moody,
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35mm RF
Appreciate the warm words of welcome. A far cry from the boards where you get no reaction.
 

firecracker

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Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
1,950
Location
Japan
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35mm
Curt said:
Welcome from WA just down the border. Another nice durable sink/tray container is had at the hardware store, here it's Lowes and HD. It's the cement mixing tray which is tough plastic and really cheap. Anyway it's like riding a bicycle you never forget.

Curt

I happen to use the same thing. I use a big one (about 4 feet wide) as a sink for wash, and the smaller one as a drying rack. The big one, which has two drain holes with drain pipes attached to the bottom, and that makes the water drain pretty quickly when using a large amount of water.

The joint part was done with super glue and sealed with epoxy and silicone pretty tight, and so far it's been holding the water really good. No leakage or any sort of problems at all. The epoxy is a way to go, and you only need a small amount.

And that is set on a 2x4" frames with an angle.

I'm not a big DIY guy at all, but I've been maintaining my darkroom by using a lot of DIY stuff that I can make at home and not worrying about getting or not getting the right kind of stuff from the photo supply stores, which gets pain in the butt after all. It's just the means of survival that I'm learning. :smile:
 

Roger Hicks

Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
4,895
Location
Northern Aqu
Format
35mm RF
Dear Larry,

Welcome to film! First of all, it's extremely easy: you can get good results with the minimum of effort, and it's easy to get better, especially with APUG to guide you.

One small suggestion, partially echoing advice already given, is buy good quality, new dev tank and spirals. Yes, you can get given second-hand stuff -- it's not as if there is any shortage -- but especially with plastic tanks and spirals, old ones can be hard to load, leaky and generally discouraging.

Personally I'd go for stainless rather than plastic for 35mm because you need less chemistry per film (425 ml/15 oz is fine for two rolls in my Kindermanns) but plastic rather than steel for 120 for the same reason: two rolls of 120 end to end on the same Jobo spool requires 485 ml/17 oz, while one 120 in stainless needs the same as two 35mm.

One-shot working from liquid concentrates will give the maximum consistency and repeatability, and also avoids breathing chemical dust when mixing. Mop up all spills quickly before they dry and turn to dust...

Two buckets are useful. Use one at 68F/20C or 75F/24C as a water bath, and initially mix up the other slightly warmer -- say 75F/24C or 80F/26C for mixing up your chemicals: the liquid concentrates (which are the way to go) will cool the water as they are mixed. Then temper the second bucket down to processing temperature and use it as wash water.

Use the Ilford wash sequence. Fill tank with water: invert 5x. Drain, fill again; invert 10x. Drain, fill again, invert 20x. This gives ANSI standard archival washing. Pace Anchell and Troop, there is no need to wait between stages: I know the guys at Ilford who did the original research.

For scanning, choose a fine-grain film; do not over-expose (which leads to reduced sharpness and bigger grain); and do not over-develop (again, reduced sharpness and bigger grain). Many scanners hopelessly exaggerate grain so you want as little of it as possible. In fact I prefer XP2 for scanning (no Callier effect) but I shouldn't imagine you want to get into doing your own C41 processing.

Finally, by way of shameless self-promotion, you might want to take a look at Darkroom Basics by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz, Collins & Brown 2000. It's got lots of step-by-steps of loading, processing, washing, etc., and a double-page spread on 'troubleshooting' with most of the faults that can occur in developing negatives. There's also a lot of information in The Photo School on www.rogerandfrances.com, much of it free (including a module called 'Welcome to Film), some of it paid for.

Cheers,

Roger
 

jim appleyard

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Nov 21, 2004
Messages
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gnashings said:
And I really hope you reconsider that enlarger issue... there is nothing more magical than seeing the image appear on an exposed piece of photo paper, under a safe light...Still gives me goose-bumps!

Peter.


Oh, how true! I used to teach b/w to children in the summer and I used to love their reaction when I would demonstrate how to process a piece of photo paper. I always got a "cool" or a "wow" out of them as they watched a blank piece of paper transform itself into a photograph. It's still fun for mr as well, even after nearly 30 years. I get no joy fropm clicking a mouse!
 
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