Looking for the perfect mechanical SLR

[Fujicaman1957]

Since you like your CE-II's function, I'd think you'd like a Chinon CE-3. It's M42 mount, has the same auto with all M42 mount lenses system, is much smaller that the CE-II and can use the PW-510 motor winder.

 

[BradS]

...
Because frankly, anyone who is happy with their gear wouldn't bother posting how much other gear sucks, and theirs is the best, unless there was an underlying issue just eating away at them.

I'm sorry you are not happy with what you have. I'm sure you will respond in the expected fashion.

Well, the M6 has zinc covers and a flarey finder so that doesn't really count. You need to pick up a real M...

I prefer the black chrome on the M6 to the black paint on my MP. But I like everything else about the MP more.
Interestingly the M6 was the low water mark for Leica construction. Zinc bubbles, flaring finder etc.

Not even. The M6 was the high water mark of Leica's cost cutting. Zinc top plates that corrode. Finders that flare. Cheaper internals. It's why Leica 'redeemed' itself in part when they replaced it with the MP, which addressed all those issues.

No, the rf is not as good as earlier ones (M5, M4, M3) or latest (MP, MA, late model M7). Flash sockets are crappy, Leicas before they cheapened out are not.

I really like my M4-2. But that is the reality. Got even cheaper later with the M6 (and maybe M4-P) when Leica switched to zinc from brass for the top plates. They realized their mistake and went back to brass with the MP.

I had two absolutely perfect, mint, looked like new Minolta CLEs. Kept them in dry boxes with no batteries when not in use (like all my gear). Both cameras worked perfectly when I put them away. (you can see where this is going). First one, I pulled out, tested it, sold it. Did not need two I had decided. The other one a few weeks later jammed on me. Shutter would not fire, film would not advance. No-one would touch it apart from a repair man called Dave Easterwood. He eventually fixed it after about 6 months. Lost faith in it, sold it. Then got contacted by the person who bought my other one who had the same failure. He found me because I posted about it. Anyway, put him in touch with Dave. While I like the camera, pretty much turned me off it. It seems that age and it's electronics are not a good mix.

The M5 can be serviced in the US by DAG, Sherry Krauter, Gus Lazzari or Leica NJ. I'm sure if you dig hard enough (Zacks?) others can too. Is service expensive? Sure at about $300- $500 BUT the camera is now much cheaper than an M6, and IMO far superior. No flaring finder, spot metering, full exposure readout in VF, made of brass (no zinc and plastic), last in the line of the old school Leica construction - adjust to fit.

Take a look in the mirror.

 

[MattKing]

Before computers:

And today, everyone is working at the combined work and Zoom station in their bedroom, at an adjusted for inflation rate (without benefits or job security) about 1/3 of what those guys (and they are all guys) were making.
Which said bedroom may very well be half way around the world from where their customers are.

 

[Huss]

Take a look in the mirror.

I love what I see!

(and there is a big difference - I actually had experience with those cameras by owning and using them. And I still use some of them so I am not disparaging a brand, but acting in a transparent manner so people who may be interested know what to look for when buying one. But I admire the time you spent finding those quotes - very flattering!)

 

[Craig75]

Take a look in the mirror.

Whats he going to see? Himself living rent free in your head?

 

[BradS]

Whats he going to see? Himself living rent free in your head?

He seem like a pretty smart guy. I think he received the intended message. If you need it explained to you please feel free to send me a PM. I'll see if I can explain it to you in simple terms. However, I'm not a psychiatrist so if you're hearing voices in your head, I cannot help you.

 

[Craig75]

He seem like a pretty smart guy. I think he received the intended message. If you need it explained to you please feel free to send me a PM. I'll see if I can explain it to you in simple terms. However, I'm not a psychiatrist so if you're hearing voices in your head, I cannot help you.

haha no youre your fine brad. I doubt there is enough space for duplex in your head for both me and huss to camp inside

 

[Chan Tran]

Before computers:

Before computer engineers wore ties to work and they have hair. Then the 70's came engineers had longer hair, lost the ties and started using computers. Now they only use computers but no ties, no hair.

 

[Radost]

Someone needs to familiarize themselves with classic Mercedes automobiles!

Classic benzes:
Almost everything rusts.
Engines are mounted with oils that leaks often.
Suspensions wear way sooner.
Air Suspantions were garbage.
Catalic converters fail.
Conenctor on transmition fails.
"If they had better "modern" engineering they could of avoided that.
I rather crash in and past 2004 POS car than older Benz.

 

[Pioneer]

I have responded to many, many wrecks as a medical first responder. If you are wearing a seatbelt you have a chance. If you're not it won't matter how new or old the car was. Give me an old 50s Nash or Volvo and I will likely survive just fine. And at least with the older cars I wasn't paying a fortune to the auto body shops just to put a bumper back together.

 

[Radost]

Hmm, really sounds like you wish you had a Leica.

Because frankly, anyone who is happy with their gear wouldn't bother posting how much other gear sucks, and theirs is the best, unless there was an underlying issue just eating away at them.

I'm sorry you are not happy with what you have. I'm sure you will respond in the expected fashion.

I maybe want to have a CL. But deffenetelly with the minolta logo on and not Leica. Leicas "As I said before" are too bulky and heavy for my liking.
As I said. MInolta CLE is a pocket "even sweat pants camera. Leica cameras are not!
Leica Lenses.... DIfferent story. My 28mm F2.8 is magnificent.
But what opens my shutter needs to be precise, reliable, small,light and to wotk with a 28mm. So not leica.

 

[Radost]

I have responded to many, many wrecks as a medical first responder. If you are wearing a seatbelt you have a chance. If you're not it won't matter how new or old the car was. Give me an old 50s Nash or Volvo and I will likely survive just fine. And at least with the older cars I wasn't paying a fortune to the auto body shops just to put a bumper back together.

Again this is more urban legends and wrong assumtions.
After 2004 the smart engineering of Crumple zone/weak point made cars a lot more safer than older cars.
I have seen internal crash video from one of the big car companies. Not many on line. But look at this video. Which car do you want to be in?

 

[George Mann]

Classic benzes:
Almost everything rusts.
Engines are mounted with oils that leaks often.
Suspensions wear way sooner.
Air Suspantions were garbage.
Catalic converters fail.
Conenctor on transmition fails.
"If they had better "modern" engineering they could of avoided that.
I rather crash in and past 2004 POS car than older Benz.

You missed 2. Dead reliable, and built better than anything else. They even look better.

Mercedes were the least prone to rust, and were the safest on the road in their heyday.

Classic Volvo's are a close 2nd overall.

 

[George Mann]

After 2004 the smart engineering of Crumple zone/weak point made cars a lot more safer than older cars.

Mercedes invented crumple zones back in the 50's

 

[Radost]

You missed 2. Dead reliable, and built better than anything else. They even look better.

Mercedes were the least prone to rust, and were the safest on the road in their heyday.

Classic Volvo's are a close 2nd overall.

I know for a fact benzes rust. If they did not there will be a lot more on the roads.
They were safest back in the late 80s when they implemented air bags in their over $200,000 models. Still not as safe as past 2005 POS car.

 

[Radost]

Mercedes invented crumple zones back in the 50's

But the most important Sleds were developed by Volvo and implemented in past 2004 cars.

 

[Pioneer]

Again this is more urban legends and wrong assumtions.
After 2004 the smart engineering of Crumple zone/weak point made cars a lot more safer than older cars.
I have seen internal crash video from one of the big car companies. Not many on line. But look at this video. Which car do you want to be in?

I've seen all the movies Radost. The reality that paramedics and emergency medical technicians face all the time is a tad different. I don't care what you drive or how many crumple zones they boast about, WEAR YOUR SEATBELT!

Of course, as has already been observed, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fine old metal, mechanical, manual cameras that most of us enjoy using. You enjoy your electronics and I'll enjoy my springs and gears.

 

[MattKing]

I think we can agree that we would prefer that our cameras not have fins and be made of a ton of steel.

 

[Radost]

I've seen all the movies Radost. The reality that paramedics and emergency medical technicians face all the time is a tad different. I don't care what you drive or how many crumple zones they boast about, WEAR YOUR SEATBELT!

Of course, as has already been observed, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fine old metal, mechanical, manual cameras that most of us enjoy using. You enjoy your electronics and I'll enjoy my springs and gears.

100% agree. Enjoy what you want. I love 6x6 50s folders that need mechanical slow speed CLA very often. I only love them becuase there is no compact modern alternative.

But to pretend that a M3 is better designed and built, and more reliable than 21st canon, minolta or Nikon "high end" SLR is nonesense.

 

[Pioneer]

Yep. Those folding cameras are great fun. Except for me it is usually the hi speeds that need attention from time to time.

 

[George Mann]

I know for a fact benzes rust. If they did not there will be a lot more on the roads.

Yet there are more vintage Mercedes currently on the road than any other!

 

[Radost]

Yet there are more vintage Mercedes currently on the road than any other!

BS. There are whay more old VW beetles and FORD mustangs then Benzes.
The cars you dont see anymore are the once that rust. Like MOPARS. WHo knew that will make them more expansive because there are less still driven, Kind of like Leica.

 

[George Mann]

BS. There are whay more old VW beetles and FORD mustangs then Benzes.

No. There are more registered vintage Mercedes worldwide than any other.

 

[Pioneer]

BS. There are whay more old VW beetles and FORD mustangs then Benzes.
The cars you dont see anymore are the once that rust. Like MOPARS. WHo knew that will make them more expansive because there are less still driven, Kind of like Leica.

I guess I am a little confused again.

I can certainly agree that certain Mopar products were prone to rusting. Not all of them of course but a few models had problems with the salt being used on the roads in the winter. Of course this was also true of Fords, Chevrolets, Buicks, etc. that were built during this same period. I can't testify as to whether or not Mercedes had the same problem there were not a lot of Mercedes Benz dealers in my neck of the woods, therefore not a lot of Mercedes Benz cars that I could observe rusting...or not.

But we keep coming back to this analogy between cars and cameras and it is more confusing than enlightening for me. For example, this reference to Leica means they rust? Or perhaps they are more expensive because they are less used? Or there are fewer of them? Or we don't drive them as often?

Whatever, I am beginning to suspect that this discussion will not be resolved.

 

[markjwyatt]

Before computers:

But those old drafting tables will be around long after your 2010 computer is useless!