looking for a "grainy" film

[photophil]

for my 645 camera I am looking for a grainy film like the old Tri-X/Rodinal combination. As I heard the Tri-X had been modified some time ago and no longer gives this special look. Is this right? Will mayby HP5+ now give the "better" look? I would like to stay with Rodinal as I already have this one and I like its comfortable handling. So: Which film will give me a nice grainy look with Rodinal on 645 negatives?? Should be around ISO400.

Thanks a lot

PHILIP

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Try pushing film and pushing development. Should give you what you're looking for, to varying degrees with varying combinations. Most films are made for finer grain anymore but there are ways around that.

 

[darkosaric]

Fomapan 400 in Rodinal. It is beautiful film, and it has big grain (that is beautiful)

 

[fschifano]

Fomapan 400 in Rodinal. It is beautiful film, and it has big grain (that is beautiful)

That is true. But there are a couple of things to watch out or with Foma 400. First, it's not really as fast as the box speed implies. It works at lot better at EI 250 or so. Second, you need to watch out for a lot of contrast. It builds fast, so watch your development times and temperatures. You'll need to do a bit of experimenting to get exactly what you want from the film; but when you do get it dialed in, it can look really nice.

 

[hpulley]

Ilford Delta 3200 in 135 format is pretty grainy. If it is still available in 120 (I ordered some a while ago but am still waiting for it) then it might work there too, especially if you really push it.

Developed in HC, Delta 400 pushed to 800 or 1600 has some grain, HP5+ too though shot at 400 and developed normally the grain is actually quite fine since that is what most people are after these days. Need it be shot at 400?

 

[fschifano]

Ilford Delta 3200 in 135 format is pretty grainy. If it is still available in 120 (I ordered some a while ago but am still waiting for it) then it might work there too, especially if you really push it.

Developed in HC, Delta 400 pushed to 800 or 1600 has some grain, HP5+ too though shot at 400 and developed normally the grain is actually quite fine since that is what most people are after these days. Need it be shot at 400?

You can use P5+ at 400 and over develop it a little. The over development doesn't change the film speed substantially, but it will increase the contrast. It's the increased contrast that makes he grain more apparent. Watchout for blown highlights, or, if you underexpose the film, lost shadow detail. Same stuff, different day.

 

[removed account4]

shoot wide and enlarge ...

 

[hpulley]

Yeah, a big crop enlargement would show it too. Same size on film printed to the same size shows the same grain regardless of format.

 

[sly]

Delta 3200 developed in Rodinal is very grainy.

 

[steelydam]

Over-agitating whatever film you end up using will add grain.

 

[bdial]

Ilford RSX. IMHO the grain is reminiscent of older Tri-X
In developers like Xtol, it's barely noticable in 120, but something like Rodinal should bring it out nicely.

 

[photophil]

OK, thanks for the answers so far. Let me summarize a little bit:
- no one is talking about the TriX so better forget about it?
- Fomapan 400. normally only ISO250 but can be kind of "pushed" to ISO400. But my dealer describes it as fine grained for a ISO400
- HP5 will maybe also too fine under standard conditions
- Delta3200: I tried this one. Its grainy but too fast to be used in daylight (or I need a ND filter)
- cropping my images during enlarging. Can be done but why using medium format then?
- little bit longer developing and more agitation - need to try this - but what film to try with??

PHILIP

 

[hpulley]

Indeed smaller formats make more sense for a gritty look IMO.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

If you want to slow down Delta 3200 try using a red filter instead of an ND - the added contrast will add to the grainy look.

APX400 - don't know what it is called these days - used to give very crisp grain with Rodinal, heck so did APX100.

Use a very wide angle lens, use only the central bit of the negative, and blow it up to enlarge the grain.

Tri-X is still a large grain film - give it a try and see if you like it...

For more grain than Rodinal try Dektol. If you do mix-your-own try D-72 with only 1/4 the sulfite and no bromide.

You can make a grain texture screen by enlarging grain on to lith film. Lay the screen over the paper when enlarging. Freestyle still makes one that is sandwiched with the negative. Google for more ... http://www.texturefects.com/products.htm

 

[hpulley]

Note when using the red 25A filter that you might need to modify the exposure more than the TTL meter suggests since camera meters seem to be fooled a bit by the red filter. Ilford suggests opening up another stop or two when using the red 25A and my experience agrees, 1.5 stops exposure compensation for better density.

 

[RobertV]

Rodinal will give in general a speed loss of 1/3F stop for most B&W films.
The Fomapan 400 will give only iso 400 in Diafine and around iso 320 with Microphen, both speed enhance developers.

Rodinal will give high sharpness and acutance but pronounced grain. Fomapan 400 E.I. 200 - 250 will do the job.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Note when using the red 25A filter that you might need to modify the exposure more than the TTL meter suggests ...

Especially true with some modern cameras with silicon cell light meters.

Older cameras with CdS cells and cameras with properly filtered silicon 'blue' cells should read correctly.

It's pretty easy to check - just meter an average outdoor scene, put on the filter and meter again. If it doesn't come out to close to 3 a stop difference then you may need to add compensation.

With Tech Pan and its heavy response in the red you only need 2 stops for the filter factor.

 

[IloveTLRs]

Kentmere 400 was very grainy when I souped it in D-76 a few weeks ago. Is it available in 120?

 

[mattmoy_2000]

I've never tried this, but the recipe's name of "grainmax" suggests that it might be what you're looking for. It even simplifies things by being a monobath, so you don't even have the fuss of fixing afterwards!
http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/calba.php

(In case the link doesn't work, here's the recipe copy-pasted)
Calba's Grain Maximizing Monobath

Monobath formula for maximum grain

Stock Solution A
Water (45C) 700 ml
Metol 2 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 50 g
Hydroquinone 20 g
Sodium Hydroxide 10 g
Potassium Bromide 2g
Stock Solution B
Water (25C) 300 ml
Chrome Alum (optional) 20 g
Sodium Thiosulfate 70g
Mixing instructions: Add chemicals in specified sequence. Always use cold water when mixing potassium or sodium hydroxide due to risk of heat reaction. In this case, reduce the original amount of hot water to 600 ml, and add the Sodium Hydroxide to 100ml of cold water prior to adding to Solution A.

Dilution: Mix both solutions together to make 1L just before use.

Starting point development time: 5-7 mins at 30C

Notes: This is a monobath formula, so no fixing is required! Chrome Alum is not required with modern emulsions. As with any monobath formula, results can vary greatly depending on film type, and there is a risk of fog/staining, so you are advised to run a test roll before processing any important negatives.

 

[erikg]

Here's mine: HP-5 or Fomapan 400, Tri-x too, Print developer (dektol etc. ) 2-3 minutes, continuous agitation at 75 degrees. Old skool newspaper style. Fix and wash at any temp. Over-enlarge.

 

[removed account4]

- cropping my images during enlarging. Can be done but why using medium format then?


PHILIP

lens quality, shorter rolls of film to experiment with ?

 

[AgentX]

If you're after maximum grain, why shoot 645 instead of 135?

 

[hpulley]

Shoot 110 or Minox!

 

[MartinP]

The effect you are after is still a bit unclear. Sharp-and-grainy, mushy-and-grainy, high/low contrast ???

 

[removed account4]

with most of my film i use print developer ( ansco 130 ) dilute not with water
but with caffenol C. i use approximate measurements with the coffee based developer
and dilute the ansco 130 about 1:10 or 1:20. i stand develop after doing a pre-soak ..
and let stand for about 20-30 mins in the developer.
it isn't for everyone, and while it isn't hard to find instant coffee, washing soda and vit c
different brands yield different results, so it is a bit of experimentation that is needed.
the ansco130 contains glycin and it works best at around 72ºF
as i said, it isn't for everyone, the film has a coffee stain, the developer smells pretty bad,
you have to over expose your film by about 1 stop or two ... but the results are pretty nice,
and it gives a nice grain even to 120 films like plusx, tmx and tmy, and neopan ...
i use ansco130 because it is what i have on hand ...