Like a digital back, but an insert (not sure where this belongs)

[madsox]

I just spotted a kickstarter for the "I'm Back Roll" - a project to produce an insert that will go into a 35mm camera to convert it to digital with an APS-C sensor. I see a few articles about it around the web, and it's interesting. Has anyone tried this company's previous products? I see they've made progressively smaller digital backs, leading up to a micro 4/3 film insert, I'd be curious about hearing any experience Photrions might have with it. Or just more informed opinions than mine - maybe I got rid of the 35mm gear too soon?


Nah. My instinct says "nice idea, but I'll keep my film cameras for film, and use digital cameras for digital" - but I would definitely like the idea of using my trusty old reliables for digital work.


Anyway, let's see what people think!

 

[Ardpatrick]

New to me, but a curious project. Why wouldn't it work considering what phones can do these days. I'm sure the people on here who actually know about tech will quickly identify its limitations. For me the issue is that I think it sort of missed the window of opportunity to a degree. 15 years ago lots of people who loved their film cameras wished there was something like this that would 'modernise' their beloved gear. But I think attitudes have evolved and most people who are shooting film cameras now are doing so because they want to shoot film, and not to use a sensor that is possibly inferior to their phone cameras. If film prices continue to spiral though, this thing might take off.

 

[OAPOli]

There is a review by channel "LGR" on Youtube for the m4/3 version. From what I remember the contraption is hardly universal and only fits a few cameras; the image quality is pretty bad compared to film.

My take is that 1) it would drive me nut to have to compose on the central crop of the VF; 2) jamming a sensor inside a camera with no regards to alignment sounds like a bad idea (these are usually adjusted to 0.05mm)

 

[koraks]

Oddly enough, despite the claims on the Kickstarter of thousands of people using the earlier version, I never talked to anyone in real-life or online who had used one of these. The concept has been around for a long time. The Kickstarter mentions it goes back to 2016, but it's much older and rumors or ideas about the same approach date back several years before that.

In the meantime, the whole thing has pretty much taken over by the advent of mirrorless cameras which allow the mounting of virtually any 'vintage' lens through an adapter, but offering superior performance on the digital end compared to something that needs to slide into a 35mm compartment.

For those who like the tactile experience of using a film camera, it appears that most choose to simply use actual film.

This product will remain a small niche within a niche; if it ever had a change of taking off for real, its window of opportunity is pretty much gone now.

 

[Frank53]

This idea pops up now and then since the late nineties. Looked interesting in those days, but hardly now imho. I remember something called Silicon Film. Never heard of it again.

 

[madsox]

Oddly enough, despite the claims on the Kickstarter of thousands of people using the earlier version, I never talked to anyone in real-life or online who had used one of these. The concept has been around for a long time. The Kickstarter mentions it goes back to 2016, but it's much older and rumors or ideas about the same approach date back several years before that.

In the meantime, the whole thing has pretty much taken over by the advent of mirrorless cameras which allow the mounting of virtually any 'vintage' lens through an adapter, but offering superior performance on the digital end compared to something that needs to slide into a 35mm compartment.

For those who like the tactile experience of using a film camera, it appears that most choose to simply use actual film.

This product will remain a small niche within a niche; if it ever had a change of taking off for real, its window of opportunity is pretty much gone now.

Y'all match up pretty well with what I think is my opinion. Neat idea, but it's very niche.

If I want to use my old lenses (and I have a few nice ones), well, I shoot Pentax so even my oldest K-mounts will work on even my newest digital body.

For the experience of working manually with my old bodies, which I do enjoy - the whole process of composing and crafting a shot - I like my old MX and LX controls, so I can use them. But I'll just shoot film in them, it seems the market for film and chemicals and supplies has stabilized. I'm not worried about film photography becoming completely dead. (edit: I'd be much more worried about the I'm Back Roll going belly up in a few years)

Now, if this insert were cheaper - maybe hit a price point about 50% what they're saying now - I might get one. I'd want a spare back for the body so I wouldn't have to remove and reinstall the pressure plate, but a parts body for a 50-year old camera is not expensive.

Anyway, it's neat to see people blending old and new. Most people on Photrio do that already, I suspect.

 

[koraks]

I see the price point is $450-$600 depending on the version; that doesn't sound too outrageous to me. Of course, it'll have to materialize before we can say anything firm...as @Frank53 also said, the idea has been around for a long time, and so has the promise.

Personally, I wouldn't be interested for a variety of reasons, including the sensor size limitation which of course precludes getting much in the way of anything wide-angle. It will also place a heavy burden on the optical performance of the center part of the glass and since this is aimed at 'digitally unlocking' older cameras, this also means it'll be used a lot with older and not so great optics. While these may perform OK if the full field of view is used, things can easily start to crumble if a high resolution smaller sensor is used as proposed here. However, the 'crop factor' effect would be a dealbreaker for me personally.

Anyway, it's neat to see people blending old and new.

Yeah, sure. And in a way, the concept has always had a certain kind of appeal. I was enthusiastic about the idea when I first heard about it. I guess it has worn off a little over the years.

 

[Kino]

I cannot imagine the dust problems...

And, yes, the concept has been around for a long, long time.

 

[Chan Tran]

These 2 guys tried it

 

[Bob Merlin]

What photographic items have come out of Kickstarter? I've only heard about things that never were produced.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Interesting video. Another argument for buying a used digital SLR, 2-3 generations old. They've depreciated like crazy and seem more useful than an I'm Back + aged film SLR. Less trouble to set up, too.

 

[madsox]

These 2 guys tried it

I think that's the previous version, isn't it? The newest one looks a bit better designed, does have an APS-C vs 4/3 sensor. Still...

 

[darkosaric]

If they can do this in Leica M film body - then it will be something. Prices of digital M bodies are very high, so I am sure there would be a lot of people interested.
Maybe to remove film backing plate or something like that?

 

[Chan Tran]

If they can do this in Leica M film body - then it will be something. Prices of digital M bodies are very high, so I am sure there would be a lot of people interested.
Maybe to remove film backing plate or something like that?

If you want to pay the same price as an M-11 for the same image quality with a much bulkier combo. So the short version is there won't be one. Leica tried at the back for the Leica R.

 

[Paul Howell]

Seems like a lot of money and work, a D200 would work just as well if not better, my Sony A900 is less, full frame and uses all A mount lens.

 

[darkosaric]

From all digital bodies - I have only Nikon D700 that I did not sold, somehow this D700 is very much "film like" in out of the camera jpg results, at least to my eyes.

 

[_T_]

I have seen the review posted above and in it I see certain issues that I can’t imagine a solution to.

Apparently the new version still requires you remove the pressure plate. Some cameras have pressure plates that are going to be a challenge to remove or doing so would require altering the camera in a way that isn’t reversible. Then different cameras have different designs for the pressure plates and back and so forth so the device may or may not fit or at least may not be properly oriented in your camera.

So you could permanently modify your favorite camera making it useless for shooting film from then on just to find out that it’s also useless for the device and then you just have a ruined camera.

That seems especially egregious considering that a lot of the kind of camera it’s designed for are beginning to become impossible to repair. Or at least more expensive to repair than they are to replace.

 

[madsox]

So you could permanently modify your favorite camera making it useless for shooting film from then on just to find out that it’s also useless for the device and then you just have a ruined camera.

That seems especially egregious considering that a lot of the kind of camera it’s designed for are beginning to become impossible to repair. Or at least more expensive to repair than they are to replace.

This is why if I got one of these, I would find at least one “spare” body to swap backs with. I don’t think I’d want to do this with a really valuable (dollars or sentiment) camera.

 

[MTGseattle]

With the sheer amount of lens adapters available these days, I don't quite see the appeal of this device. To go through the motions of shooting film ( advancing the frame, clicking the shutter) that bit of tactile interface is definitely not worth the price of entry to me. The kickstarter funding page looks like things went well for them so I applaud them for that.
There seems to be a medium format version in the works which could be interesting, but the product photos have me a bit confused regarding focal plane distance. I need to do some more reading.

 

[reddesert]

What photographic items have come out of Kickstarter? I've only heard about things that never were produced.

Kickstarter is merely the crowdfunding platform, so the realizability of the project depends very much on how realistic the designers are. For example, at least one Reveni Labs project (shoe mount light meter), a couple of Intrepid cameras, the Chroma 4x5, and the Lab-Box daylight tank were Kickstarters, and continue to exist as viable products.

Of those successes, one is largely electronics, and the other three are non-miniaturized mechanical devices. IOW, saying "We're going to build a modest run of a 4x5 camera" seems a lot more realistic than "a modest run of a digital sensor integrated into an arbitrary mechanical camera with a precisely located film plane."

I think the whole idea of a drop-in digital sensor was appealing in ~2006 when a lot of people had collections of film cameras and lenses, and DSLRs were super-expensive and didn't work well with the older gear. But it was totally impractical. Now, DSLRs are inexpensive, or you can get a mirrorless camera, lens adapters, EVF, etc to use your lenses; but the good news is, drop-in digital sensors are still impractical.

I've never bought into a Kickstarter product, but have contributed to two documentary films and a record release. Not for any reward, just wanted to see the projects get made. One of the documentary films (about the legendary mountain climber Jeff Lowe) came to a real live big screen movie theater near me. That was very gratifying.